---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/22/05: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:46 AM - Re: Cowlings at intro price (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM) 2. 03:08 AM - Flying high (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM) 3. 04:55 AM - Re: Flying high (FLYaDIVE@AOL.COM) 4. 06:37 AM - Re: Flying high (flyv35b) 5. 10:04 PM - Re: Flying high (TeamGrumman@aol.com) 6. 10:08 PM - Re: Flying high (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:22 AM PST US From: TeamGrumman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowlings at intro price --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com In a message dated 8/21/05 6:41:54 AM, ArjayS@AOL.COM writes: > Hi Gary > OK Sounds like a plan. I'll make arrangements accordingly. > Cheers! > Rj > I talked to Dave today and asked if he would dedicate his time to his business for the next year or so. He agreed. I think this will be his last trip to Mississippi. It takes about 2 to 3 weeks to just make the parts that make up the cowling. He should be able to get on it within a couple of weeks. I'll keep you posted. Gary ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:02 AM PST US From: TeamGrumman@AOL.COM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Flying high --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com Today I went flying, after replacing the alternator for the second time, fixing the hole in the cowling where the old exhaust came out, and having the carb overhauled. Boy, was it ever messed up. I use the throttle to start, (I NEVER use the prmer above 25 to 30 degrees F) thinking I'm pumping fuel into the intake with the accelerator pump. Imagine my surprise when Ken at LyCon tells me that my accelerator pump was INOP. The pump itself had decomposed. The check ball was stuck. There was a lot of sediment in the float bowl ... lots of SBs had never been accomplished. The carb was really messed up. Anyway, this just proves that you DON'T need to prime to start a Tiger. You don't need to even use the throttle. Although, I'll still use the trhottle. Old habit. So, I went flying today. I ran the climb-cooling test that the DER plans to run. At full rich, climbing from 2500 feet to 5000 feet, CHT (#3) reached 415, from 5000 to 7500, leaned, it went to 462, from 7500 to 9000, leaned, it peaked at 474 and then, to my surprise, it started to go down. At 11,000 feet, CHT (#3) was down to 400 and going down. Oil temp peaked at 198 and then went down to 180. I continued the climb to, get this, 17,600 feet. I still had 300 fpm ROC! 18,000 would be easy. Well, maybe not EASY, but doable, I leveled off and let it accelerate. It took a while to get to 2670 RPM. Lots of fun. The world looks a lot different from up there. I listend to radio chatter from Paso Robles about 400 miles away. With the antenna buried in the dorsil fin. Of course, when I got back to Auburn, I had to go back to work... Gary ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:10 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@AOL.COM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Flying high --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 8/22/05 6:09:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TeamGrumman@aol.com writes: > Boy, was it ever messed up. I use the throttle to start, (I NEVER use the > prmer above 25 to 30 degrees F) thinking I'm pumping fuel into the intake > with the accelerator pump. Imagine my surprise when Ken at LyCon tells me that my accelerator pump was INOP. The pump itself had decomposed. The check ball was stuck. There was a lot of sediment in the float bowl ... lots of SBs > had never been accomplished. The carb was really messed up. Anyway, this > just proves that you DON'T need to prime to start a Tiger. You don't need > to even use the throttle. Although, I'll still use the trhottle. Old habit. =========================== Gary: I was taught that you NEVER use Throttle Pumping to start an engine. It floods the Carb and can cause a backfire followed by engine fire. How long did it take you to get to 17,600'? Was that DA or indicated altitude? - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - ---- -- - - - - - - - - Gary said: At full rich, climbing from 2500 feet to 5000 feet, CHT (#3) reached 415, from 5000 to 7500, leaned, it went to 462, from 7500 to 9000, leaned, it peaked at 474 and then, to my surprise, it started to go down. At 11,000 feet, CHT (#3) was down to 400 and going down. Oil temp peaked at 198 and then went down to 180. ========================== Must agree ... Strange things (well, different from what you would expect) happen ... I am breaking in a brand new engine. Brand new on this engine is ZERO time not even a bench run time with a club. Did a short engine check and Carb adjustment while on the ground and 15 minutes later I was airborne. As the temps started to rise I started to pull the throttle back and keep the mixture rich. Temps kept increasing ... OK, I said, that has to be the wearing in of new parts? Kept the next two flights short, 30 minutes or so. Then I took up a friend ... Old Fart Type, he forgot more than I will ever know. He said FULL THROTTLE! And low and behold ... When I did that The temps CAME DOWN ... Leaned a bit and they even went down further. So what does that indicate ... AIRFLOW and OPERATING TEMPERATURE. At the higher Throttle setting the plane's speed picked up and airflow increased, so did the cooling. And with the engine at the proper operating temps the expansion and contraction of the parts leveled out, less metal to metal wear and a more uniform fuel low with less OVER cooling from the fuel. Many people out there think that our $15K+ engines are the cat's meow and the design engineers were better than rocket scientists or even brain surgeons! But these engines are pure garbage and had poor machining only dumb-luck to fall back on. Time has taught us to care for these engines. Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:02 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Flying high --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" That's right. Pumping the throttle can flood the engine and cause a backfire. Whereas the primer injects fuel into the cylinder heads near the intake valves and is the best way to prime the engine. Down in CA where the temps are usually pretty mild you probably don't need to prime but up here in the NW in the fall and winter you definitely need to prime to get the engine to fire in any reasonable time at all. Otherwise you will crank for a long time. Cliff A&P/IA ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Flying high > --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com > > In a message dated 8/22/05 6:09:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > TeamGrumman@aol.com writes: > >> Boy, was it ever messed up. I use the throttle to start, (I NEVER use >> the >> prmer above 25 to 30 degrees F) thinking I'm pumping fuel into the >> intake >> with the accelerator pump. Imagine my surprise when Ken at LyCon tells >> me > that my accelerator pump was INOP. The pump itself had decomposed. The > check ball was stuck. There was a lot of sediment in the float bowl ... > lots > of SBs >> had never been accomplished. The carb was really messed up. Anyway, > this >> just proves that you DON'T need to prime to start a Tiger. You don't >> need >> to even use the throttle. Although, I'll still use the trhottle. Old > habit. > =========================== > Gary: > > I was taught that you NEVER use Throttle Pumping to start an engine. It > floods the Carb and can cause a backfire followed by engine fire. > > How long did it take you to get to 17,600'? Was that DA or indicated > altitude? > > - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - ---- -- - - - - - - - - > Gary said: > At full rich, climbing from 2500 feet to 5000 feet, CHT (#3) reached > 415, from 5000 to 7500, leaned, it went to 462, from 7500 to 9000, leaned, > it > peaked at 474 and then, to my surprise, it started to go down. At 11,000 > feet, CHT (#3) was down to 400 and going down. Oil temp peaked at 198 and > then > went down to 180. > ========================== > Must agree ... Strange things (well, different from what you would expect) > happen ... I am breaking in a brand new engine. Brand new on this engine > is > ZERO time not even a bench run time with a club. Did a short engine check > and > Carb adjustment while on the ground and 15 minutes later I was airborne. > As the > temps started to rise I started to pull the throttle back and keep the > mixture rich. Temps kept increasing ... OK, I said, that has to be the > wearing in > of new parts? Kept the next two flights short, 30 minutes or so. Then I > took > up a friend ... Old Fart Type, he forgot more than I will ever know. He > said > FULL THROTTLE! And low and behold ... When I did that The temps CAME DOWN > ... > Leaned a bit and they even went down further. So what does that indicate > ... > AIRFLOW and OPERATING TEMPERATURE. At the higher Throttle setting the > plane's speed picked up and airflow increased, so did the cooling. And > with the > engine at the proper operating temps the expansion and contraction of the > parts > leveled out, less metal to metal wear and a more uniform fuel low with > less > OVER cooling from the fuel. > > Many people out there think that our $15K+ engines are the cat's meow and > the > design engineers were better than rocket scientists or even brain > surgeons! > But these engines are pure garbage and had poor machining only dumb-luck > to > fall back on. Time has taught us to care for these engines. > > Barry > "Chop'd Liver" > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:39 PM PST US From: TeamGrumman@aol.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Flying high --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com In a message dated 8/22/05 4:55:56 AM, FLYaDIVE@aol.com writes: > I was taught that you NEVER use Throttle Pumping to start an engine.=A0 It > floods the Carb and can cause a backfire followed by engine fire.=A0 > > Kinda depends of if you get a backfire or not. Don't you think? Plus, you'd have to pump a lot of fuel, let it evaportate and create vapor and get the conditions just right and .... For what it's worth, I've been starting planes without using a primer for 25 years and NEVER had a problem. You do whatever tickles your fancy. Gary ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:20 PM PST US From: TeamGrumman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Flying high --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com In a message dated 8/22/05 6:37:49 AM, flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com writes: > That's right.=A0 Pumping the throttle can flood the engine and cause a > backfire.=A0 Whereas the primer injects fuel into the cylinder heads near=20the > intake valves and is the best way to prime the engine.=A0 Down in CA where the > temps are usually pretty mild you probably don't need to prime but up here > in the NW in the fall and winter you definitely need to prime to get the > engine to fire in any reasonable time at all.=A0 Otherwise you will crank=20for > a long time. > Well, I disagree. I guess if you pump a LOT of fuel with the throttle, you can flood the intake manifold. Either way, if the engine isn't running and you use the primer, all it does is run doen the intake tubes into the intake manifold. I'd bet a case of beer I can start your plane in Oregon in the fall with a couple of throttle pumps and start on just a few blades. Besides, odds are, your primer nozzles are carboned up and don't squirt anything anyway. Gary