Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:25 AM - Re: LAX Emergency Landing (Gil Alexander)
2. 01:10 AM - Re: LAX Emergency Landing (WILLIAM KELLY)
3. 04:21 AM - Re: LAX Emergency Landing (Steve Roberts)
4. 04:37 AM - Re: LAX Emergency Landing (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
5. 04:43 AM - Re: LAX Emergency Landing (FLYaDIVE@AOL.COM)
6. 04:59 AM - Re: LAX Emergency Landing (Bruce Smith)
7. 05:50 AM - Re: LAX Emergency Landing (flyv35b)
8. 06:28 AM - Re: LAX Emergency Landing (linn walters)
9. 09:44 AM - Re: LAX Emergency Landing (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
10. 11:08 AM - Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05 (Neitalibelle@aol.com)
11. 11:08 AM - Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05 (Neitalibelle@AOL.COM)
12. 11:17 AM - Re: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05 (923te)
13. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05 (TeamGrumman@aol.com)
14. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05 (flyv35b)
15. 01:31 PM - georgetown, CA Sunday 25th (Anna3003@aol.com)
16. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05 (TeamGrumman@aol.com)
17. 05:44 PM - Re: LAX Emergency Landing (FLYaDIVE@AOL.COM)
18. 07:31 PM - glider tows... (Gil Alexander)
19. 07:46 PM - Re: glider tows... (923te)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: LAX Emergency Landing |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
The FAA approved reflective stuff is just glass beads ... but 10 times more
expensive that highway beads.
May be the paint, but it probably wasn't the reflective stuff.... gil in Tucson
When we re-painted our airpark runway last, we went with the highway
beads... they were much brighter than the FAA beads....but perhaps they
wouldn't stand up to Airbus landings...:
)
At 07:08 PM 9/21/2005, you wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
>
>Just watched the perfect landing made by the pilot of the Jet BLue A320
>Airbus that had the nose wheels set at 90.
>
>Anybody else notice how the flames really puffed up when the nose gear
>scraped over the paint stripes? Wonder if the paint stripes reflective
>material or paint had some cumbustable constituents that added to the fire?
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: LAX Emergency Landing |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "WILLIAM KELLY" <v1rotate@verizon.net>
I would assume it was just the amount of heat created by the friction of the
metal wheel and strut with the pavement, which at those speeds would
probably be enough to ignite just about anything. The tip of the nose strut
was probably a molten mess when the plane finally came to a stop. Those
guys did a great job.
Bill Kelly
> Just watched the perfect landing made by the pilot of the Jet BLue A320
> Airbus that had the nose wheels set at 90.
>
> Anybody else notice how the flames really puffed up when the nose gear
> scraped over the paint stripes? Wonder if the paint stripes reflective
> material or paint had some cumbustable constituents that added to the
> fire?
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: LAX Emergency Landing |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
I never saw anything about the emergency landing, other than the post here.
Is there a link to something somewhere?
unless you've made other plans, have a great day...
Steve Roberts
AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: LAX Emergency Landing
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gil Alexander
<gilalex@earthlink.net>
The FAA approved reflective stuff is just glass beads ... but 10 times more
expensive that highway beads.
May be the paint, but it probably wasn't the reflective stuff.... gil in
Tucson
When we re-painted our airpark runway last, we went with the highway
beads... they were much brighter than the FAA beads....but perhaps they
wouldn't stand up to Airbus landings...:
)
At 07:08 PM 9/21/2005, you wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
>
>Just watched the perfect landing made by the pilot of the Jet BLue A320
>Airbus that had the nose wheels set at 90.
>
>Anybody else notice how the flames really puffed up when the nose gear
>scraped over the paint stripes? Wonder if the paint stripes reflective
>material or paint had some cumbustable constituents that added to the
fire?
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: LAX Emergency Landing |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
That was one HELL OF A GREAT LANDING!
I would bet both the Pilot and Copilot both get a bonus for doing such a
great job.
And the A&P Shop lose their Christmas bonus and get an audit.
I wonder if they thought about moving the CG Aft to take the weight off the
nose wheel?
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: LAX Emergency Landing |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 9/22/2005 7:35:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
v1rotate@verizon.net writes:
I would assume it was just the amount of heat created by the friction of the
metal wheel and strut with the pavement, which at those speeds would
probably be enough to ignite just about anything. The tip of the nose strut
was probably a molten mess when the plane finally came to a stop. Those
guys did a great job.
Bill Kelly
===========================
Hey Guys:
Their Wheels - Hubs are probably made of the same material as ours ...
MAGNESIUM ... Ever see magnesium burn? It takes quiet a bit of heat to get it
started but once going it is much hotter than a gasoline fire and it burns White
Hot.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: LAX Emergency Landing |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Bruce Smith" <bruce.smith@york.com>
Barry,
I heard during the broadcast that they were moving some of the baggage
as far aft as they could to help give them a rearward CG. Must have been
a chore, as there doesn't appear to be a lot of extra space in the belly
of an Airbus.
Bruce
FLYaDIVE@aol.com said the following on 9/22/2005 7:37 AM:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
>
>That was one HELL OF A GREAT LANDING!
>
>I would bet both the Pilot and Copilot both get a bonus for doing such a
>great job.
>And the A&P Shop lose their Christmas bonus and get an audit.
>
>I wonder if they thought about moving the CG Aft to take the weight off the
>nose wheel?
>
>
>Barry
>"Chop'd Liver"
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: LAX Emergency Landing |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
What caused the wheels to rotate sideways? I presume the "scissors" either
failed or were not connected properly. Since the nose strut did not
collapse the damage was probably pretty minor compared to what it would have
been had the strut collapsed.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <FLYaDIVE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: LAX Emergency Landing
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
>
> That was one HELL OF A GREAT LANDING!
>
> I would bet both the Pilot and Copilot both get a bonus for doing such a
> great job.
> And the A&P Shop lose their Christmas bonus and get an audit.
>
> I wonder if they thought about moving the CG Aft to take the weight off
> the
> nose wheel?
>
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: LAX Emergency Landing |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Having thought about the subject, but not noticing the correlation with
the striping, the flames are probably the magnesium wheel hubs burning
....... and maybe the addition of fine glass particles in that high heat
just added fuel to the fire! Kudos to that flight crew ...... but I'll
bet that's their all-time best landing ..... ever. Without any steering
capability that bird did track right down that centerline. Amazing!
Linn
do not archive
Gil Alexander wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
>
>The FAA approved reflective stuff is just glass beads ... but 10 times more
>expensive that highway beads.
>
>May be the paint, but it probably wasn't the reflective stuff.... gil in Tucson
>
>When we re-painted our airpark runway last, we went with the highway
>beads... they were much brighter than the FAA beads....but perhaps they
>wouldn't stand up to Airbus landings...:
>)
>
>At 07:08 PM 9/21/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
>>
>>Just watched the perfect landing made by the pilot of the Jet BLue A320
>>Airbus that had the nose wheels set at 90.
>>
>>Anybody else notice how the flames really puffed up when the nose gear
>>scraped over the paint stripes? Wonder if the paint stripes reflective
>>material or paint had some cumbustable constituents that added to the fire?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: LAX Emergency Landing |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 9/22/05 4:35:19 AM, v1rotate@verizon.net writes:
>
> Bill Kelly
>
Hey Bill, I didn't know you were on this. I've referred a couple of 2-seat
guys to you.
Gary
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Neitalibelle@aol.com
So much to learn about our planes.
Good seeing some Grumman folks at the Reno Air Races!
Neita
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Neitalibelle@aol.com
My husband keeps talking about putting a tailhook on the Tiger to pull our
gliders. The tailhook is on the equipment list....
But understand this is a no-no...
I would worry about engine cooling anyway.
Neita
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
I believe that the Tiger minimum speed is much too fast to tow gliders. At
least I would not want to be towed that fast!
The tail tie down is much too weak for that pupose as well...
----- Original Message -----
From: <Neitalibelle@aol.com>
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Neitalibelle@aol.com
>
> My husband keeps talking about putting a tailhook on the Tiger to pull our
> gliders. The tailhook is on the equipment list....
>
> But understand this is a no-no...
>
> I would worry about engine cooling anyway.
>
> Neita
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 9/22/05 11:08:59 AM, Neitalibelle@aol.com writes:
> So much to learn about our planes.=A0
>
> Good seeing some Grumman folks at the Reno Air Races!
>
> Neita
>
>
I missed them all. Where were they????
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
Colin Aro has had a notice in the STAR about the Saturday night BBQ in his
hangar for a long time.
----- Original Message -----
From: <TeamGrumman@aol.com>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs -
09/21/05
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 9/22/05 11:08:59 AM, Neitalibelle@aol.com writes:
>
>
>> So much to learn about our planes.=A0
>>
>> Good seeing some Grumman folks at the Reno Air Races!
>>
>> Neita
>>
>>
>
> I missed them all. Where were they????
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | georgetown, CA Sunday 25th |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Anna3003@aol.com
OK, I'm planning a Georgetown picnic on Sunday, mainly because I can't make
the regular GG fly-in to Quincy on Sat. Here's the story about Georgetown.
Self-serve fuel, FBO closed on Sun, but no food at Airport. (15 min walk to
town, nice restaurant open on Suns. Trail at airport is short hike around
airport, about 1 mile. Longer hikes into the gorge start at campground. Picnic
tables available at the airport and at the campground. I plan to bring sandwich
fixings (meat cheese lettuce tomato mustard, mayo pickle) and will have one
whole loaf of bread's worth and cold drinks, but anything else will have to be
brought by others.
I plan to arrive around 11:30, if we dont have stratus in the PAO that
prevents a non-current ifr pilot to get out at10:30. I'm going to hike the little
trail, check out the campground trails and decide whether I want to do one,
and have lunch after, at the Airport.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 9/22/05 12:14:51 PM, flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com writes:
> Colin Aro has had a notice in the STAR about the Saturday night BBQ in his
> hangar for a long time.
>
missed that one
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: LAX Emergency Landing |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 9/21/05 10:18:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 923te@cox.net
writes:
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
>
> Just watched the perfect landing made by the pilot of the Jet BLue A320
> Airbus that had the nose wheels set at 90.
>
> Anybody else notice how the flames really puffed up when the nose gear
> scraped over the paint stripes? Wonder if the paint stripes reflective
> material or paint had some cumbustable constituents that added to the fire?
=======================
I HATE channel 2 (CBS) but they just showed the landing with a close up of
the nose wheel. I looked like the nose wheel was off center to the left just a
bit and the brightness of the fire coincided with the white strips maybe as a
background reflective surface.
VERY difficult to say.
My other theories are:
1 - If the center line has the reflective glass beads ... The glass is much
harder than the paved macadam. As the Magnesium wheels/hubs went across the
stripes the combination of glass and magnesium produced the sparking.
2 - The painted strips are more flammable than the black top, as the
wheels/hubs came into contact with the paint the paint added to the fire.
3 - The nose wheel was not in full contact with the ground at all times and
it is nothing more than pure coincidence that the wheel came in contact with
the ground in sequence with the stripes.
4 - All of our eyes are failing and it ONLY looked like what we saw.
Abra-ka-dabra!
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 18
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--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
You mean you don't think it could take a 600 pound rearward load?
That's the breaking strength required for my Mini-Nimbus with no
ballast... and lots of gliders are much lighter .
I would hope it's that strong.
But I would also think the approved tow hook in the equipment list has a
better mounting system....
gil in Tucson
At 11:16 AM 9/22/2005, you wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
>
>I believe that the Tiger minimum speed is much too fast to tow gliders. At
>least I would not want to be towed that fast!
>
>The tail tie down is much too weak for that pupose as well...
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Neitalibelle@aol.com>
>To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/21/05
>
>
> > --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Neitalibelle@aol.com
> >
> > My husband keeps talking about putting a tailhook on the Tiger to pull our
> > gliders. The tailhook is on the equipment list....
> >
> > But understand this is a no-no...
> >
> > I would worry about engine cooling anyway.
> >
> > Neita
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: glider tows... |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
If we're talking about the stock tie down ring on the back bottom of the
plane then I can say from personnal experience that it is not very strong. A
600 pound pull aft in my opinion, will bend the skin that it is screwed into
and may even pull out the tie down ring.
I would even recomend against using this ring to pull the plane into the
hangar by....
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gil Alexander
<gilalex@earthlink.net>
>
> You mean you don't think it could take a 600 pound rearward load?
>
> That's the breaking strength required for my Mini-Nimbus with no
> ballast... and lots of gliders are much lighter .
>
> I would hope it's that strong.
>
> But I would also think the approved tow hook in the equipment list has a
> better mounting system....
>
> gil in Tucson
>
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