Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... (Matt Dralle)
2. 12:17 AM - Re: EDM Fuel Flow Installation in Tiger (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
3. 12:28 AM - I must be spoiled (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
4. 05:39 AM - Re: I must be spoiled (923te)
5. 06:02 AM - Re: EDM Fuel Flow Installation in Tiger (linn walters)
6. 06:23 AM - Re: I must be spoiled (flyv35b)
7. 08:11 AM - Re: EDM Fuel Flow Installation in Tiger (cole@san.rr.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
services!!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: EDM Fuel Flow Installation in Tiger |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 11/20/05 9:28:43 PM, gilalex@earthlink.net writes:
> In the pressure sense line - which has no flow - doesn't the pressure
> equalize out?
>
yes, it matters, for the same reason you bleed the brakes. Air is
compressible. True, 7 psi isn't a lot, thus, it isn't as critical. BUT, if
you get
an air bubble in the line, it will block the pressure. Remember vapor
locking a carburetor in your 57 Studebaker???? No? I do.
Message 3
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| Subject: | I must be spoiled |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
A customer has brought in an EI fuel flow set-up for me to install. When I
opened the box, I found the indicator, the transducer, the harness (with
something like 9 wires!), and 3 pieces of paper that talk about the specs, the
warranty, etc.
What I didn't get was installation instructions, a wiring diagram, STC
paperwork, or the fittings. No wiring diagram. With a cannon plug with 9 wires
(I'm guessing at the number of wires, it looks like a lot of wires.) and no
wiring diagram, and no installation instructions.
Now, with a JPI 450 Fuel Flow (the equivalent), I get all the STC paperwork,
the Applicability listing, Installation instructions, the wiring diagram
(which, by the way, is power and ground and 3 wires for the transducer), and the
proper fittings, PLUS, some fire sleeve to put over the transducer. True, the
fire sleeve probably isn't necessary, but it sure makes the package from JPI
look a lot more complete and professional.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: I must be spoiled |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
Gary,
Electronics International (EI) has very detailed instructions. Strange that
your customer does not have them. However, they are easily downloaded here:
EI has much, much better customer service. Give them a call and compare,
(541) 318-6060
Installation Instructions:
http://www.buy-ei.com/Manuals/EI%20Fuel%20Flow%20&%20Pressure%20FP-5(L)%20II.pdf
Operational; Instructions:
http://www.buy-ei.com/Manuals/EI%20Fuel%20Flow%20&%20Pressure%20FP-5(L)%20OI.pdf
I would be happy to sell you a JPI 450 in the same condition as your
customer provided EI FP-5L. Then you will be comparing apples to apples.
Except the quality of the EI far surpasses the JPI and the EI can be
equipped with fuel pressure that I beileve is STC'd as primary allowing you
to replace the factory fuel psi gauge. EI has STC'd all the gauges required
to replace the grumman factory gauges.
> A customer has brought in an EI fuel flow set-up for me to install. When
I
> opened the box, I found the indicator, the transducer, the harness (with
> something like 9 wires!), and 3 pieces of paper that talk about the specs,
the
> warranty, etc.
>
> What I didn't get was installation instructions, a wiring diagram, STC
> paperwork, or the fittings. No wiring diagram. With a cannon plug with
9 wires
> (I'm guessing at the number of wires, it looks like a lot of wires.) and
no
> wiring diagram, and no installation instructions.
>
> Now, with a JPI 450 Fuel Flow (the equivalent), I get all the STC
paperwork,
> the Applicability listing, Installation instructions, the wiring diagram
> (which, by the way, is power and ground and 3 wires for the transducer),
and the
> proper fittings, PLUS, some fire sleeve to put over the transducer.
True, the
> fire sleeve probably isn't necessary, but it sure makes the package from
JPI
> look a lot more complete and professional.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: EDM Fuel Flow Installation in Tiger |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
TeamGrumman@AOL.COM wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 11/20/05 9:28:43 PM, gilalex@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
>
>
>>In the pressure sense line - which has no flow - doesn't the pressure
>>equalize out?
>>
>>
>>
>
>yes, it matters, for the same reason you bleed the brakes. Air is
>compressible. True, 7 psi isn't a lot, thus, it isn't as critical. BUT, if
you get
>an air bubble in the line, it will block the pressure.
>
I tend to disagree.
> Remember vapor
>locking a carburetor in your 57 Studebaker???? No? I do.
>
I think this is apples and oranges. In one case we're talking of
compressing a bubble in a closed end pipe and the other is the inability
of a pump to expel fuel vapor .... that just compresses and expands
within the pump. The bubble in the gauge line will also react to
pressure pulses in the line, but will still transmit the average fuel
pressure that is present at the measuring port. I believe that ALL the
bourden tube gauges will have trapped air in them from being installed
when new. At least that's how I see it. I also see the trapped air as
being beneficial since it dampens the pulses from the fuel pump. If you
really want an exercise, place a gauge (with no restrictor) in the line
going to the carb and see if you can follow the needle!!!
So. I'm still sceptical of the original satement that a bubble in the
gauge line would cause erroneous readings.
Linn
do not archive.
>
>
>
>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: I must be spoiled |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
This may not be the fault of EI. I have installed lots of EI FP-5L fuel
flow systems and they come with complete installation and operating
instructions, which include a wiring diagram, pin-out diagram for the
connector and recommendations on where and how to install the flow
transducer. The STC and the FAA approved model list (AML) is also included.
Sounds like your customer lost or misplaced 8-1/2x11 blue cover
instructions, probably 15 pages or so. If this is not so then EI screwed up
and forgot to put it in the box. Give them a call and you'll get the
instructions.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: <TeamGrumman@AOL.COM>
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: I must be spoiled
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
> A customer has brought in an EI fuel flow set-up for me to install. When
> I
> opened the box, I found the indicator, the transducer, the harness (with
> something like 9 wires!), and 3 pieces of paper that talk about the specs,
> the
> warranty, etc.
>
> What I didn't get was installation instructions, a wiring diagram, STC
> paperwork, or the fittings. No wiring diagram. With a cannon plug with
> 9 wires
> (I'm guessing at the number of wires, it looks like a lot of wires.) and
> no
> wiring diagram, and no installation instructions.
>
> Now, with a JPI 450 Fuel Flow (the equivalent), I get all the STC
> paperwork,
> the Applicability listing, Installation instructions, the wiring diagram
> (which, by the way, is power and ground and 3 wires for the transducer),
> and the
> proper fittings, PLUS, some fire sleeve to put over the transducer.
> True, the
> fire sleeve probably isn't necessary, but it sure makes the package from
> JPI
> look a lot more complete and professional.
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: EDM Fuel Flow Installation in Tiger |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: cole@san.rr.com
I can vouch for what Cliff said about getting readings 2-3 gph higher
when the electric pump is on and the transducer is just downstream
from the electric pump. Thats where mine was installed for some
reason. One of these days Ill have it corrected, but for now its
just an annoyance (as far as I know, unless there is some other reason
to have it moved sooner than later), since the totalizer shows Ive
burned a bit more fuel than I really have since the boost pump is only
used for brief periods each flight.
Steve K
____________________________________
Time: 05:51:56 PM PST US
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: EDM Fuel Flow Installation in Tiger
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b"
<flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
If your electric fuel pump only puts out 2 psi pressure I would say
that
either there is air in the line or there is something wrong with the
pump as
normal pressure is close to 5 psi. Even without the electric pump
running
the engine driven pump should have been able to supply plenty of fuel
to
keep the engine running. Something sounds amiss. What does JPI say
about
transducer installation and hose routing? I believe that turning the
fitting at the pump upwards is the wrong thing to do as it may be
possible
to trap air in a high part of the line. The line should probably be
routed
downhill to the transducer and then upward to the carburetor.
While I have located the transducer in the line between the electric
pump
outlet and the mechanical pump inlet in the past I believe the
recommended
location is between the mechanical pump and the carburetor. More
recently I
have located it below the lower engine crossmember tube on a Tiger and
looped a hose from the mechanical pump to the transducer and then up
to the
carburetor on the opposite side (RH side). This requires swapping the
plug
and fitting at the carb from one side to the other. Two Adel clamps
were
used to hold the transducer securely to the lower crossmember tube.
Locating the transducer near the electric fuel pump and in the outlet
line
from it seems to result in 2-3 gph higher fuel flow when the electric
pump
is turned on. I had a recent discussion with EI about reverse flow
pulsations due to the check valves in the mechanical pump opening and
closing causing minor pulsing reverse rotation of the turbine wheel in
the
transducer. We also talked about the possibility of RF interference
from
the electric pump cycling on and off. I then relocated the transducer
from
this location to the mechanical pump outlet line and further away from
the
electric pump and solved the problem with flow increase when the
electric
pump was turned on. I'm not sure which of the two theories was
responsible
for the change but I suspect it was the former.
Cliff A&P/IA
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