Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:14 AM - Hey Guys... (Matt Dralle)
2. 05:31 AM - Re: Re: manifold pressure (linn walters)
3. 05:43 AM - Re: Re: manifold pressure ()
4. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: manifold pressure (linn walters)
5. 07:01 AM - Re: AOPA Tiger article (flyv35b)
6. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: manifold pressure (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
7. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: manifold pressure (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
8. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: manifold pressure (linn walters)
9. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: manifold pressure (linn walters)
10. 01:02 PM - Re: Re: manifold pressure (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Hey guys, wow, I can't believe all the really nice comments I've been getting about
how much you appreciate and enjoy the Lists. I really appreciate your positive
feedback and support. I've included below a bunch more of the awesome
feedback I've received in the last week or so. Please read over some of these
great comments. It is really quite amazing...
There are just a couple more days left during this year's Fund Raiser and your
chance to get one of the really great gifts. If you been putting off making a
Contribution, now's your chance to support these Lists *and* pinch an awesome
free gift too!
Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution already. It is much appreciated!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
List Admininstrator
----------------------- Lister Comments -----------------------
The Archives Search Engine is usually the first place I turn
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to resolve.
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Great stuff - keep it going.
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----------------------- Lister Comments -----------------------
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: manifold pressure |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
I'm not communicating. The burps start during the leaning process (see
the second set of EGT's) and are once every 30 to 60 seconds apart.
When you look at the display, the readings 'hunt' around a number .....
which is what I try to record. The reading on a particular cylinder may
fluctuate a couple of points when everything is stable ..... no changes
being made. As I leaned and took data, the rate of burps went up ......
around 15 seconds or so at full lean. It was still easy to distinguish
the burps from normal engine roughness as I over-leaned ..... way into
power loss. I took 8 sets of data, every two turns of the mixture knob
until 10 turns and then took readings at 1 turn. The difference in EGTs
below shows that the burps start about one turn before leaning really
takes off (10 turns), and is lean at 11 turns and over-lean at 12
turns where we stopped taking data. I'll take data again, but cut the
changes down to 1/4 turn when the burping starts because I don't have
enough data points to really get a good curve right now.
When looking at the EGTs and trying to see which cylinder EGT changes in
sync with the burps is nearly impossible as the reading changes +/-
(let's say one for the sake of argument going from 1440 to 1441 to 1440
to 1339 to 1440 ..... that sort of thing) and there doesn't seem to be
any change in correlation with the burps. This weekend when we fly a
Toys for Tots mission, I'll try and get some more data. Problem is that
the flights are around 1/2 hour and Sunday's flight was the first I
participated in.
Any ideas yet???
Linn
do not archive
TeamGrumman@aol.com wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
>It looks to me like the EGTs were 15 to 30 degrees lower.
>
>
>
>>Whoa.=A0 I may have mis-typed!!!=A0 There is no drop in EGTs when the burps
>>occur.=A0 The engine monitor will float +/- a couple of points when it's
>>not burping so it's really hard to see the burp on the EGTs.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Peak for all 4 were at:
>
>1=A0=A0 1425
>2=A0=A0 1465
>3=A0=A0 1400
>4=A0=A0 1445
>
>If that means anything!!!
>
>When the burps start, the EGTs were:
>
>1=A0=A0 1405
>2=A0=A0 1450
>3=A0=A0 1370
>4=A0=A0 1415
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: manifold pressure |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: <andy747@charter.net>
Linn,
have you tried leaning for the burp with just one mag running?
if it burps on both mags when run singularly that sorta eliminates
electrical as a source....have heard of a similar thing where a "tang" from
a helicoil extending into the cylinder was acting as a glow plug and
preigniting the fuel
good luck....
Andy Thomas
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: manifold pressure
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn walters
> <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> I'm not communicating. The burps start during the leaning process (see
> the second set of EGT's) and are once every 30 to 60 seconds apart.
> When you look at the display, the readings 'hunt' around a number .....
> which is what I try to record. The reading on a particular cylinder may
> fluctuate a couple of points when everything is stable ..... no changes
> being made. As I leaned and took data, the rate of burps went up ......
> around 15 seconds or so at full lean. It was still easy to distinguish
> the burps from normal engine roughness as I over-leaned ..... way into
> power loss. I took 8 sets of data, every two turns of the mixture knob
> until 10 turns and then took readings at 1 turn. The difference in EGTs
> below shows that the burps start about one turn before leaning really
> takes off (10 turns), and is lean at 11 turns and over-lean at 12
> turns where we stopped taking data. I'll take data again, but cut the
> changes down to 1/4 turn when the burping starts because I don't have
> enough data points to really get a good curve right now.
>
> When looking at the EGTs and trying to see which cylinder EGT changes in
> sync with the burps is nearly impossible as the reading changes +/-
> (let's say one for the sake of argument going from 1440 to 1441 to 1440
> to 1339 to 1440 ..... that sort of thing) and there doesn't seem to be
> any change in correlation with the burps. This weekend when we fly a
> Toys for Tots mission, I'll try and get some more data. Problem is that
> the flights are around 1/2 hour and Sunday's flight was the first I
> participated in.
>
> Any ideas yet???
> Linn
> do not archive
> TeamGrumman@aol.com wrote:
>
>>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>>
>>It looks to me like the EGTs were 15 to 30 degrees lower.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Whoa.=A0 I may have mis-typed!!!=A0 There is no drop in EGTs when the
>>>burps
>>>occur.=A0 The engine monitor will float +/- a couple of points when it's
>>>not burping so it's really hard to see the burp on the EGTs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Peak for all 4 were at:
>>
>>1=A0=A0 1425
>>2=A0=A0 1465
>>3=A0=A0 1400
>>4=A0=A0 1445
>>
>>If that means anything!!!
>>
>>When the burps start, the EGTs were:
>>
>>1=A0=A0 1405
>>2=A0=A0 1450
>>3=A0=A0 1370
>>4=A0=A0 1415
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: manifold pressure |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
andy747@charter.net wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: <andy747@charter.net>
>
>Linn,
>
>have you tried leaning for the burp with just one mag running?
>
Not yet. That's on the next test flight. Trying to get the other guys
to have a test plan and write the data down during a flight is,
unfortunately, rather tough. The owner has a current medical but won't
fly without another pilot along, so data taking should be easy. They
only take a few data points and are constantly in the 'try this' mode,
changing too many things at once without any baseline data. Sunday was
the first try I had at it, and I've had a lot of good suggestions, many
that have been tried before, to visit/re-visit. I've been too busy to
actively participate and the others have spent an inordinate amount of
time chasing their tails.
linn
do not archive
>
>if it burps on both mags when run singularly that sorta eliminates
>electrical as a source....have heard of a similar thing where a "tang" from
>a helicoil extending into the cylinder was acting as a glow plug and
>preigniting the fuel
>
>good luck....
>
>Andy Thomas
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: manifold pressure
>
>
>
>
>>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn walters
>><lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>>
>>I'm not communicating. The burps start during the leaning process (see
>>the second set of EGT's) and are once every 30 to 60 seconds apart.
>>When you look at the display, the readings 'hunt' around a number .....
>>which is what I try to record. The reading on a particular cylinder may
>>fluctuate a couple of points when everything is stable ..... no changes
>>being made. As I leaned and took data, the rate of burps went up ......
>>around 15 seconds or so at full lean. It was still easy to distinguish
>>the burps from normal engine roughness as I over-leaned ..... way into
>>power loss. I took 8 sets of data, every two turns of the mixture knob
>>until 10 turns and then took readings at 1 turn. The difference in EGTs
>>below shows that the burps start about one turn before leaning really
>>takes off (10 turns), and is lean at 11 turns and over-lean at 12
>>turns where we stopped taking data. I'll take data again, but cut the
>>changes down to 1/4 turn when the burping starts because I don't have
>>enough data points to really get a good curve right now.
>>
>>When looking at the EGTs and trying to see which cylinder EGT changes in
>>sync with the burps is nearly impossible as the reading changes +/-
>>(let's say one for the sake of argument going from 1440 to 1441 to 1440
>>to 1339 to 1440 ..... that sort of thing) and there doesn't seem to be
>>any change in correlation with the burps. This weekend when we fly a
>>Toys for Tots mission, I'll try and get some more data. Problem is that
>>the flights are around 1/2 hour and Sunday's flight was the first I
>>participated in.
>>
>>Any ideas yet???
>>Linn
>>do not archive
>>TeamGrumman@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>>>
>>>It looks to me like the EGTs were 15 to 30 degrees lower.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Whoa.=A0 I may have mis-typed!!!=A0 There is no drop in EGTs when the
>>>>burps
>>>>occur.=A0 The engine monitor will float +/- a couple of points when it's
>>>>not burping so it's really hard to see the burp on the EGTs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Peak for all 4 were at:
>>>
>>>1=A0=A0 1425
>>>2=A0=A0 1465
>>>3=A0=A0 1400
>>>4=A0=A0 1445
>>>
>>>If that means anything!!!
>>>
>>>When the burps start, the EGTs were:
>>>
>>>1=A0=A0 1405
>>>2=A0=A0 1450
>>>3=A0=A0 1370
>>>4=A0=A0 1415
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AOPA Tiger article |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
I must also say that I was pleasantly surprised after installing a new PF
internal muffler on a customers Tiger recently. The short stack internal
muffler design is what I felt they should have done in the first place. I
measured 60 rpm increase static and 80 rpm increase flying at full throttle
at about 3000 ft. altitude. Also the EGT temps where more uniform. There
was a very noticeable increase in takeoff and climb performance (I did not
have time to take any measurements however).
I also feel that the strap support for the outlet muffler offers very little
actual support, but is better than none at all. I left the strap installed
but added 2 Adel clamps to the lower engine mount tube to better support the
outlet muffler. The slip joints on the riser pipes connections to the
muffler are a vast improvement over the split beaded clamps on the stock
exhaust system. The cowling was slotted completely to the aft edge and one
additional nutplate installed to facilitate removing and installing the
lower cowling. I can't help but feel that patching the old hole in the
cowling will improve cooling air flow and reduce drag and now there is some
aft thrust component from the exhaust gases. It even appears as if they
won't stain the belly as much as the stock exhaust.
Cliff A&P/IA
Cascade Country Aviation
PowerFlow exhaust system dealer for the NW.
----- Original Message -----
From: <TeamGrumman@aol.com>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AOPA Tiger article
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 11/28/05 7:13:29 AM, Douglas.Weir@us.calyon.com writes:
>
>
>> Gary,
>> Did you also install the PowerFlow exhaust on your plane?=A0 Are you a
>> believer?
>>
>>
>
> Oh, yes, I forgot to say that. It does have the short stack Power Flow.
> The power Flow exhaust system is very well designed right up to where they
> attach the muffler to the plane. On the original setup, the muffler
> would=20hang
> loosely and wobble back and forth. On the short stack, the support brace
> is
> at such a poor angle that it is useless.
>
> We had a new 182 Cessna do a hard landing here. When the cowling was
> off,=20I
> noticed the muffler supported by a bracket mounted to the firewall.
> Clearly
> a lot better way to support the muffler. SOOOOO, I mounted my short
> stack
> so that the muffler has a descent support at the firewall.
>
> Other-than-that, anything beats the poorly designed stock muffler. If I
> could replace every stock muffler with the power flow, I would.
>
> By-the-way, I got an additional 80 rpm at 12,500 feet with the power flow.
>
> At 17,500 feet, I can still turn it 2650 rpm.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: manifold pressure |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
You really need an analyzer that you can download the data. Taking data by
hand is tenuous at best. It's also very subjective.
Am I to understand you have an O-360 with an updraft carb? Not too long
after I had the one-piece venturi installed in my Cheetah and had the few
instances of burping, I found an overhauler that would put the two-piece back in.
I
didn't do it. Just contemplated it. Both times it happened I was climbing
out of high terrain. Very disconcerting.
In a message dated 11/29/05 5:32:30 AM, lwalters2@cfl.rr.com writes:
> I'm not communicating.=A0 The burps start during the leaning process (see
> the second set of EGT's) and are once every 30 to 60 seconds apart.=A0
> When you look at the display, the readings 'hunt' around a number .....
> which is what I try to record.=A0 The reading on a particular cylinder may
> fluctuate a couple of points when everything is stable ..... no changes
> being made.=A0 As I leaned and took data, the rate of burps went up ......
> around 15 seconds or so at full lean.=A0 It was still easy to distinguish
> the burps from normal engine roughness as I over-leaned ..... way into
> power loss.=A0
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: manifold pressure |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 11/29/05 6:02:48 AM, lwalters2@cfl.rr.com writes:
> Not yet.=A0 That's on the next test flight.=A0
>
so, not a Grumman I take it ......
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: manifold pressure |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
TeamGrumman@aol.com wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
>You really need an analyzer that you can download the data.
>
AMEN!!!
> Taking data by hand is tenuous at best. It's also very subjective.
>
True, but how do you get the data acquisition type analyzer to hear and
feel the burp??? :-P
>Am I to understand you have an O-360 with an updraft carb?
>
Yes
> Not too long
>after I had the one-piece venturi installed in my Cheetah and had the few
>instances of burping, I found an overhauler that would put the two-piece back
in. I
>didn't do it. Just contemplated it. Both times it happened I was climbing
>out of high terrain. Very disconcerting.
>
This is one question I failed to ask of the owner/pilot. They've been
working on things for months .... all engine related ..... and so much
is new/rebuilt/blessed that I can't keep up. I'll the venturi question
to my list. That's a possibility since the carb was rebuilt recently.
One way to get around problems like the venturi and floats .... is to
request a 'repair' rather than an overhaul. But you knew that, didn't
you :-) .
Linn
do not archive
--
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: manifold pressure |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
TeamGrumman@aol.com wrote:
>so, not a Grumman I take it ......
>
I've been found out. No, it's on a Glastar. The reason I posed this to
the Gang (and Teamgrumman) is because I value their knowledge ...... and
am sure of getting solid information. Posing the question on another
list (say Lycoming) would elicit responses from unknown sources .....
and I wouldn't know whether the info was factual, speculation, or even
malicious.
Linn
do not archive
--
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: manifold pressure |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
do you know if the mags are rebuilt mags or new ones?
if you can look into the throat of the carb, look to see if the atomizer
looks like it's perforated. It's the thing in the middle of the venturi. I
changed mine at about the time of my burps for shits-and-grins along with a whole
lot of other stuff. Bad trouble shooting/experimental technique I know, but
I was desparate. A shotgun approach seemed the most prudent.
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