Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:00 AM - Re: Lifters and stuck valves (flyv35b)
2. 08:21 AM - Alternator light in a '79 Tiger (Weir, Douglas (CALYON))
3. 11:01 AM - Re: Alternator light in a '79 Tiger (TeamGrumman@aol.com)
4. 11:10 AM - Re: Lifters and stuck valves (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
5. 03:26 PM - Re: Lifters and stuck valves (flyv35b)
6. 04:41 PM - Re: Lifters and stuck valves (James Courtney)
7. 07:55 PM - Re: Lifters and stuck valves (TeamGrumman@aol.com)
8. 08:06 PM - Re: Lifters and stuck valves (Gil Alexander)
9. 08:13 PM - Re: Lifters and stuck valves (FLYaDIVE@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Lifters and stuck valves |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
Unless SB388C is different from SB388B in this regard (I don't think it is),
there is nothing that deals with cleaning or inspecting the hydraulic
lifters.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <TeamGrumman@AOL.COM>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Lifters and stuck valves
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 2/20/06 7:04:33 PM, gilalex@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
>> Gary... doesn't=A0=A0 SB388C also call out a cleaning of the lifters at
>> the
>> same time as the infamous "wobble check"??
>>
>> If so, should be done every 400 hrs (old cylinders...)=A0 ....gil=20in
>> Tucson
>>
>
> Well, yes, I guess it does. Hadn't thought of it.
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Alternator light in a '79 Tiger |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Weir, Douglas (CALYON)" <Douglas.Weir@us.calyon.com>
Gary,
Can you please remind me what the alternator light on the panel is supposed
to be telling me?
I know that it comes on when the alernator side of the split master is
switched OFF, but other than that, I have never seen it come on despite
multiple alternator related problems. FWIW, I have had the alternator
replaced once (not sure what the problem was), I have had a broken output
terminal another time, and had a broken wire from the VR to the alternator
most recently. None of these failures caused the ALT light on the control
panel to illuminate, but each of them caused me to lose my alternator power.
Thanks and regards,
Doug
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator light in a '79 Tiger |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 2/21/06 8:22:09 AM, Douglas.Weir@us.calyon.com writes:
> Can you please remind me what the alternator light on the panel is supposed
> to be telling me?
>
> I know that it comes on when the alernator side of the split master is
> switched OFF, but other than that, I have never seen it come on despite
> multiple alternator related problems.=A0
>
Oddly enough, it only tells you WHEN the alternator switch is on. Other
than that, it doesn't do anything. Look at the wiring diagram on my web site.
You can see that it is wired (powered by) the nav lights. I have had
problems with the nav lights blowing a fuse and it turned out to be the idiot light.
Completely remove all of the wiring associated with the idiot light and the
over-voltage relay. ALL of the wiring. Install a Zeftronics alternator
controller with the built-in over-voltage sensor. Wire up the "I" terminal the
way they show it in the STC paperwork (to one of the indicator lights for the
Precise Flight vacuum gauge) and it will work just like the idiot light you=20now
have. It is a LOT simpler and doesn't use the nav lights for power.
On a side note, just because the alternator light in a car tell you when the
alternator is charging, that doesn't mean that aircraft have the same level=20of
technology. Oh, yes, I know, idiot lights for alternators on cars started
showing up in 1963, BUT, they aren't approved for aircraft.
On my first Cheetah, I wired up an idiot light that showed when the
alternator was putting out power. I copied the wiring diagram out of a 1968 Motors
Book (if you're old enough to remember that...) for a 1968 Ford. It worked.
I had it in there for almost 15 years. I took it out when I sold the plane.
I talked to an engineeer at Zeftronics and he said they were planning on a
revision of the R15V00 regulator for which the "I" terminal also showed low
voltage.
I think Bob Stewart has wired up the basic R15V00 to show low voltage but I
never got a wiring diagram to see how he did it.
Maybe you can ask him.
Gary
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Lifters and stuck valves |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 2/21/06 6:01:12 AM, flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com writes:
> Unless SB388C is different from SB388B in this regard (I don't think it
> is),
> there is nothing that deals with cleaning or inspecting the hydraulic
> lifters
>
Part One, Paragraph 4
"4. All Engines: Remove push rods, shroud tubes and hydraulic tappet
assemblies. Disassemble tappet and clean as described in the applicable overhaul
manual."
The caveat is, the overhaul manual is vague on how to clean.
ALL of the lifters (tappets) in the engine I mentioned were stuck. Even
after bleeding the oil out of the tappets, I could NOT compress them; not even
a
few thousanths of an inch. I have no doubt that the valves were not closing
like they should.
I soaked them in carburetor cleaner over night and that still did not loosen
them all up.
I'm still going to be looking closer at the dry tappet clearance in the
future.
Gary
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lifters and stuck valves |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
You are so right Gary, I overlooked that paragraph!
Why where the lifter stuck? Varnished up, rusted or what?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <TeamGrumman@AOL.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Lifters and stuck valves
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 2/21/06 6:01:12 AM, flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com
> writes:
>
>
>> Unless SB388C is different from SB388B in this regard (I don't think it
>> is),
>> there is nothing that deals with cleaning or inspecting the hydraulic
>> lifters
>>
>
> Part One, Paragraph 4
>
> "4. All Engines: Remove push rods, shroud tubes and hydraulic tappet
> assemblies. Disassemble tappet and clean as described in the applicable
> overhaul
> manual."
>
> The caveat is, the overhaul manual is vague on how to clean.
>
> ALL of the lifters (tappets) in the engine I mentioned were stuck. Even
> after bleeding the oil out of the tappets, I could NOT compress them; not
> even a
> few thousanths of an inch. I have no doubt that the valves were not
> closing
> like they should.
>
> I soaked them in carburetor cleaner over night and that still did not
> loosen
> them all up.
>
> I'm still going to be looking closer at the dry tappet clearance in the
> future.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Lifters and stuck valves |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "James Courtney" <jamey@jamescourtney.net>
Gary put me to work cleaning these up for #3 before we moved the plane to
Auburn so I believe I'm qualified (modulo my imperfect memory) to answer:)
They were varnished and once cleaned of this they seemed to work quite well
and there was no apparent corrosion or pitting on the two I worked with.
Jamey
AA5B N72T (the plane with the sticky lifters)
A36 N7218R
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Lifters and stuck valves
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b"
--> <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
You are so right Gary, I overlooked that paragraph!
Why where the lifter stuck? Varnished up, rusted or what?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <TeamGrumman@AOL.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Lifters and stuck valves
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 2/21/06 6:01:12 AM, flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com
> writes:
>
>
>> Unless SB388C is different from SB388B in this regard (I don't think
>> it is), there is nothing that deals with cleaning or inspecting the
>> hydraulic lifters
>>
>
> Part One, Paragraph 4
>
> "4. All Engines: Remove push rods, shroud tubes and hydraulic tappet
> assemblies. Disassemble tappet and clean as described in the
> applicable overhaul manual."
>
> The caveat is, the overhaul manual is vague on how to clean.
>
> ALL of the lifters (tappets) in the engine I mentioned were stuck. Even
> after bleeding the oil out of the tappets, I could NOT compress them;
> not
> even a
> few thousanths of an inch. I have no doubt that the valves were not
> closing
> like they should.
>
> I soaked them in carburetor cleaner over night and that still did not
> loosen
> them all up.
>
> I'm still going to be looking closer at the dry tappet clearance in
> the future.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Lifters and stuck valves |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 2/21/06 4:42:14 PM, jamey@jamescourtney.net writes:
> You are so right Gary, I overlooked that paragraph!
>
> Why where the lifter stuck?=A0 Varnished up, rusted or what?
>
> Cliff
>
They appeared to have varnish and carbon, similar to what you'd see on inside
of a rocker cover on an old car that had hundreds of thousands of miles on it
without changing the oil. Not sludgy. But, cake and baked on carbon and
varnish.
When I bought my plane, it had 1100 hours on it. 80 hours in the last 10
years. THe inside of the block had caked on sludge. It took hours to scrape
it off. I poured about 10 gallons of fuel through the engine to was as much
through as i could. The oil filter on the first few oil changes was pretty
full of junk. So was the oil screen.
The lifters and tappets didn't look that bad though.
Gary
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Lifters and stuck valves |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
>
>Part One, Paragraph 4
>
>"4. All Engines: Remove push rods, shroud tubes and hydraulic tappet
>assemblies. Disassemble tappet and clean as described in the applicable
>overhaul
>manual."
>
>The caveat is, the overhaul manual is vague on how to clean.
My manual just says "use clean solvent" ... pretty generic...:
) gil A
>Gary
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Lifters and stuck valves |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 2/21/06 10:55:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
TeamGrumman@aol.com writes:
> I poured about 10 gallons of fuel through the engine to was as much
> through as i could. The oil filter on the first few oil changes was
pretty
> full of junk. So was the oil screen.
>
> The lifters and tappets didn't look that bad though.
>
> Gary
=========================
Gary:
Fuel is a very POOR cleaning agent. And too expensive as well as flammable.
Try Mineral Spirits, it works VERY well. You can prove it to yourself by
cleaning an oil screen in gas and another in Mineral Spirits. The spirits will
have the oil totally disperse. Also, when you let the spirits sit for a while
the oil will separate from the spirits and you will have clean spirits to work
with again.
I know the engine was not run much, but this makes a good argument for MMO 1
hour before an oil change. MMO also cleans the tappets.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
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