---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/01/06: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:19 AM - Re: Nose wheel shimmy (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) 2. 05:29 AM - Re: Nose wheel shimmy (David Feinstein) 3. 05:31 AM - Nose wheel shimmy (FLYaDIVE@AOL.COM) 4. 05:56 AM - Re: Nose wheel shimmy (flyv35b) 5. 07:49 AM - Re: Nose wheel shimmy (Denham, Bobby D.) 6. 09:57 PM - Re: Nose wheel shimmy (Gil Alexander) 7. 10:09 PM - Windows (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM) 8. 11:32 PM - Official TeamGrumman-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) (Matt Dralle) 9. 11:33 PM - Official TeamGrumman-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:46 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Nose wheel shimmy --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 3/1/06 1:56:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, rickw@lifepointministries.com writes: > Hey all > > I just purchased an AA5 N6542L with wheel pants and when I set the nose > wheel down on landing she shimmies and I have to pull it up as long as I can > then set it down. Is there a fix for this that some one may know about!! > hope for help > Rick ============================== HMmmmmmm Sort of a built in ... This is the way you are spouse to land device! Hey Rick, a couple three things: 1 - Any idea what your speed was during rollout? Too high a speed when the nose wheel touches down sure can cause shimmy. 2 - Yes, Grumman's sure like keeping the nose wheel up, it is not only the way you should land, but it sure LQQKs impressive 3 - Now, just in case, the nose wheel was not addressed during the annual there is a maintenance procedure to properly set the nose wheel: a> Jack up the plane - Simple method is to place a 2x6xwidth of plane right at the firewall edge and use a hydraulic jack. b> Put a clean piece of cardboard under the nose wheel. This is to catch any parts that you will drop. c> Slide the nose wheel pant up and out of the way. Good idea to tie it up there. d> Get a NEW cotter pin for the castle nut on the bottom of the nose fork. e> Remove the castle nut and remove the nose fork. Note: YES, there is a simpler method BUT you just said you were the new owner and because of that YOU do not know the condition of the nose fork bearing or the cupped washers. f> Wash all the parts using Mineral - GAS is NOT a cleaner! g> O! You do have the Maintenance Manual open and on the correct page? If you do not have the correct page give a call to Fletcher Aviation (1-800-329-4647, FAX: 713-649-6060) and request the Nose Wheel Washer Assembly Instructions. h> Inspect the parts make sure you have ALL the proper parts and that they are stacked in the proper order. j> GREASE each and every washer ALL OVER. k> CLEAN the nose wheel bearing and the nose strut spindle. m> GREASE both these parts TOTALLY. The maintenance Manual has identifies the proper grease to use. Though I prefer MOLY-GREASE for the washers. n> Reassemble in the proper order. p> Now you could have skipped all of the above and just done this step but you would not know the condition of your nose wheel assembly ... With the nose wheel straight, put a wrench on the castle nut, [DON'T USE VICE GRIPS OR CHANNEL-LOCK] tighten the nut ... How much? q> Until you develop a calibrated arm, you will need a simple spring scale, like a fish scale. With the scale attached to the AXLE tighten the nut until you have about 20 to 30 Lbs of drag as you try to pull the nose wheel off of straight. Yea, Yea, Yea ... I know the manual says only 20 Lbs. But I have found in more cases than not it does take as much as 30 Lbs. I attribute that to either stronger or weaker cupped washers and internal bearing ware. Hey, IF it works at 20 Lbs ... Go for it! BIG IF ! ! ! r> Align the castle nut with the cotter pin hole and install the cotter pin ... NEW COTTER PIN. And the head of the pin faces forward. s> Install the wheel pant. Good idea to have a A&P look over your shoulder the first time you do this and once trained have him sign off your log book as being trained. Oh, this is also true for Oil Changes and Spark Plug Cleaning and Installations. Go FLY but! Just because you did all the maintenance to stop the shimmy does NOT mean you come in hot or drop the nose. After all, you are NOT a Cessna pilot. You fly a Grumman! ;-) Barry "Chop'd Liver" PS Good luck with your plane and welcome to the GG. Did you also join the AYA? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:35 AM PST US From: "David Feinstein" Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Nose wheel shimmy --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "David Feinstein" # when I set the nose wheel down on landing # ... # I have to pull it up as long as I can then set it down. If you can pull the nose back up, you might want to consider not forcing the nose wheel onto the ground at high speed. Also check the tensions (Gary's answer). This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:34 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@AOL.COM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Nose wheel shimmy CC: rickw@lifepointministries.com --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 3/1/06 1:56:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, rickw@lifepointministries.com writes: > Hey all > > I just purchased an AA5 N6542L with wheel pants and when I set the nose > wheel down on landing she shimmies and I have to pull it up as long as I can > then set it down. Is there a fix for this that some one may know about!! > hope for help > Rick ============================== HMmmmmmm Sort of a built in ... This is the way you are spouse to land device! Hey Rick, a couple three things: 1 - Any idea what your speed was during rollout? Too high a speed when the nose wheel touches down sure can cause shimmy. 2 - Yes, Grumman's sure like keeping the nose wheel up, it is not only the way you should land, but it sure LQQKs impressive 3 - Now, just in case, the nose wheel was not addressed during the annual there is a maintenance procedure to properly set the nose wheel: a> Jack up the plane - Simple method is to place a 2x6xwidth of plane right at the firewall edge and use a hydraulic jack. b> Put a clean piece of cardboard under the nose wheel. This is to catch any parts that you will drop. c> Slide the nose wheel pant up and out of the way. Good idea to tie it up there. d> Get a NEW cotter pin for the castle nut on the bottom of the nose fork. e> Remove the castle nut and remove the nose fork. Note: YES, there is a simpler method BUT you just said you were the new owner and because of that YOU do not know the condition of the nose fork bearing or the cupped washers. f> Wash all the parts using Mineral - GAS is NOT a cleaner! g> O! You do have the Maintenance Manual open and on the correct page? If you do not have the correct page give a call to Fletcher Aviation (1-800-329-4647, FAX: 713-649-6060) and request the Nose Wheel Washer Assembly Instructions. h> Inspect the parts make sure you have ALL the proper parts and that they are stacked in the proper order. j> GREASE each and every washer ALL OVER. k> CLEAN the nose wheel bearing and the nose strut spindle. m> GREASE both these parts TOTALLY. The maintenance Manual has identifies the proper grease to use. Though I prefer MOLY-GREASE for the washers. n> Reassemble in the proper order. p> Now you could have skipped all of the above and just done this step but you would not know the condition of your nose wheel assembly ... With the nose wheel straight, put a wrench on the castle nut, [DON'T USE VICE GRIPS OR CHANNEL-LOCK] tighten the nut ... How much? q> Until you develop a calibrated arm, you will need a simple spring scale, like a fish scale. With the scale attached to the AXLE tighten the nut until you have about 20 to 30 Lbs of drag as you try to pull the nose wheel off of straight. Yea, Yea, Yea ... I know the manual says only 20 Lbs. But I have found in more cases than not it does take as much as 30 Lbs. I attribute that to either stronger or weaker cupped washers and internal bearing ware. Hey, IF it works at 20 Lbs ... Go for it! BIG IF ! ! ! r> Align the castle nut with the cotter pin hole and install the cotter pin ... NEW COTTER PIN. And the head of the pin faces forward. s> Install the wheel pant. Good idea to have a A&P look over your shoulder the first time you do this and once trained have him sign off your log book as being trained. Oh, this is also true for Oil Changes and Spark Plug Cleaning and Installations. Go FLY but! Just because you did all the maintenance to stop the shimmy does NOT mean you come in hot or drop the nose. After all, you are NOT a Cessna pilot. You fly a Grumman! ;-) Barry "Chop'd Liver" PS Good luck with your plane and welcome to the TG & GG. Did you also join the AYA? ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:17 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Nose wheel shimmy --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" In addition to Gary's comments, the manual says 10-22 lb pull sideways (perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the nose fairing or fork) at the axle centerline. 10 lb is to low and will almost always shimmy. 20-25 lb. is a good range to shoot for. Even there the Belville washers are nearly totally compressed where the spring rate is drastically changing, which makes it hard to adjust with the limitation of the two cross-drilled holes for the cotter key. If problems still persist there is probably a problem with the tire and/or tire pressure. The tire may be worn abnormally from past shimmying and have to be replaced. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:27 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Nose wheel shimmy > --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com > > two things to look at > > 1) with the nose off the ground, first spin the tire by hand. It should > spin no more than 1 revolution. That is, LESS than one revolution. If > not, > tighten the axle bolt nuts (you'll need two 1/2 inch sockets/ratchets.) > > 2) try pushing the the nose gear wheel pant side to side. Push from > anywhere near the back of the wheel pant. Technically, you need to rig > up a fish > scale, tighten (or loosen, as required) the nose fork bolt until you reach > somethin like 22 in-lbs (or was it ft-lbs?). THe truth is, there is > nothing > magical about the fish scale. Google search Belville washers, do your > own > research, whatever. What you need to do is compress the the washers > roughly 75%. > > As it turns out, there are many ways to install the washers. 22 > fish-scales > will get you various amounts of compression depending on how you do the > washers. > > Before you get started, take it all apart. Clean up everything. INSIDE > the nose fork, you need one thich and one thin thrust washer (two washers > total) > A new "O" ring. Grease everthing with No. 22 Aeroshell grease. on > the > OUTSIDE, I use one large area flat washer against the nose fork. You > need to > protect the aluminum. Then, 4 Belville washers. Then, one small area > washer against the nut. > > Like this. | <<>> | nut. Put a thin film of grease on these too. They > are steel and they will rust. > > Assemble the washers and nut. Tighten until you fell the washers > compressing. They'll compress a lot. Push on the back of the wheel > pant (as ytou > tighten) until you feel a fair amount of drag on the wheel pant. If you > tighten > it all the way until the washers are compressed, just back off on the nut > to > where 22 fish-scales are. > > Gary > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:55 AM PST US From: "Denham, Bobby D." Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Nose wheel shimmy --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Denham, Bobby D." It's common to find the washers are not installed properly. Make sure you check that. Bob -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b [mailto:flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 5:56 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Nose wheel shimmy --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" In addition to Gary's comments, the manual says 10-22 lb pull sideways (perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the nose fairing or fork) at the axle centerline. 10 lb is to low and will almost always shimmy. 20-25 lb. is a good range to shoot for. Even there the Belville washers are nearly totally compressed where the spring rate is drastically changing, which makes it hard to adjust with the limitation of the two cross-drilled holes for the cotter key. If problems still persist there is probably a problem with the tire and/or tire pressure. The tire may be worn abnormally from past shimmying and have to be replaced. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:27 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Nose wheel shimmy > --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com > > two things to look at > > 1) with the nose off the ground, first spin the tire by hand. It should > spin no more than 1 revolution. That is, LESS than one revolution. If > not, > tighten the axle bolt nuts (you'll need two 1/2 inch sockets/ratchets.) > > 2) try pushing the the nose gear wheel pant side to side. Push from > anywhere near the back of the wheel pant. Technically, you need to rig > up a fish > scale, tighten (or loosen, as required) the nose fork bolt until you reach > somethin like 22 in-lbs (or was it ft-lbs?). THe truth is, there is > nothing > magical about the fish scale. Google search Belville washers, do your > own > research, whatever. What you need to do is compress the the washers > roughly 75%. > > As it turns out, there are many ways to install the washers. 22 > fish-scales > will get you various amounts of compression depending on how you do the > washers. > > Before you get started, take it all apart. Clean up everything. INSIDE > the nose fork, you need one thich and one thin thrust washer (two washers > total) > A new "O" ring. Grease everthing with No. 22 Aeroshell grease. on > the > OUTSIDE, I use one large area flat washer against the nose fork. You > need to > protect the aluminum. Then, 4 Belville washers. Then, one small area > washer against the nut. > > Like this. | <<>> | nut. Put a thin film of grease on these too. They > are steel and they will rust. > > Assemble the washers and nut. Tighten until you fell the washers > compressing. They'll compress a lot. Push on the back of the wheel > pant (as ytou > tighten) until you feel a fair amount of drag on the wheel pant. If you > tighten > it all the way until the washers are compressed, just back off on the nut > to > where 22 fish-scales are. > > Gary > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:58 PM PST US From: Gil Alexander Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Nose wheel shimmy --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gil Alexander A picture is here that shows the washer layout much better than the manuals.... http://www.sbw.org/nosestrut/ gil in Tucson At 08:48 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote: >--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Denham, Bobby D." > >It's common to find the washers are not installed properly. Make sure you >check that. > >Bob ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:58 PM PST US From: TeamGrumman@AOL.COM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Windows --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com Mike Meyer, Remember how you shamed me into replaceing my windows? I got them done. 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Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** TeamGrumman-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the TeamGrumman-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the TeamGrumman-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. TeamGrumman-List Policy Statement The purpose of the TeamGrumman-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:00 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Official TeamGrumman-List Usage Guidelines --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please read over the TeamGrumman-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete TeamGrumman-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/TeamGrumman-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** TeamGrumman-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the TeamGrumman-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the TeamGrumman-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. TeamGrumman-List Policy Statement The purpose of the TeamGrumman-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.]