Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:33 AM - Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech (Steve Roberts)
2. 04:39 AM - More Turbo Tiger photos (Bruce Smith)
3. 04:58 AM - Re: Freadom of Speach - Speled speetch (Matthew Drahzal)
4. 05:01 AM - Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech (Walt Beaulieu)
5. 05:49 AM - Re: Turbo Tiger (flyv35b)
6. 06:14 AM - Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech (linn Walters)
7. 07:26 AM - Re: Turbo Tiger (flyv35b)
8. 08:20 AM - Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech (Gil Alexander)
9. 09:38 AM - Re: Pictures (Matt Dralle)
10. 12:36 PM - Re: Freedom of Speech (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
11. 01:50 PM - Hangar (Bruce Smith)
12. 01:52 PM - Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
13. 01:54 PM - Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
14. 01:57 PM - Re: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/11/06 (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
15. 02:30 PM - Re: Hangar (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
16. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/11/06 (Gilbert Alexander)
17. 06:06 PM - Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech (flyv35b)
18. 10:03 PM - Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech (Steve Roberts)
19. 10:52 PM - Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech (Steve Roberts)
20. 11:44 PM - Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
Thanks Matt...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Gary didn't actually write that little discriptive paragraph. I
wrote it when I was building the new BBS Forums. I tried to write
a short narritive on what each list was about and that's what
popped into my head for the TeamGrummand-List. If you take a look
at the origial discription back on the Matronics Email List web
page, you'll find the following description for
the TeamGrumman-List ( http://www.matronics.com/emaillists ):
"The TeamGrumman-List is an Internet Email Group dedicated to the
support of the Grumman series of aircraft."
That pretty much includes all the models and I believe that was the
original intent of the List. I definately didn't intentionally intend
to exclude anyone from the "Grumman" list with my description.
With everyone's concent, I would be more that happy to added the other
models of aircraft in the Grumman line to the description.
Matt Dralle
Matronics.com Email List Admin.
Message 2
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| Subject: | More Turbo Tiger photos |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Bruce Smith <bruce.smith@york.com>
I've added two additional Turbo Tiger pictures Larry Matteo sent me.
Larry, again, thanks.
http://homepage.mac.com/haveblue1/FileSharing12.html
Bruce
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Freadom of Speach - Speled speetch |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Matthew Drahzal <mattd@drahz.com>
I had a conversation just recently when I was presented with the option
of a "Bulletin Board"-only interface for a list.
I stated that if that were the case - I would need to go elsewhere. With
the listserv list (or majordomo list or whatever it is called these
days) I can download email, disconnect, and read it wherever I am. I can
reply whenever I want, and archive whatever I am interested in.
I know that there are people with more time on their hands who can do
the BB thing...sadly - I am not one of them....
(and no - I still cannot figure out how to post, reliably, to other
lists. I have a whole bag full of bounced-back rejection messages.)
I am happy to have options.
/drahz
do not archive
Matt Dralle wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>
>
>Actually, Doug Reeves closed down all of the Yahoo Groups sites that he had started
and moved to a Web Forum layout instead. Matronics has picked up quite
a few new members since then, since many people prefer the email distribution
to the BBS Forum format.
>
>That being said, Matronics has recently added BBS forum that is tied directly to the existing email lists so no matter what you format preference (email or web) you can view your content the way you like. http://forums.matronics.com
>
>Matt
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Walt Beaulieu <aviation@acs-group.net>
That is interesting Gil, I moderate a group of 1500+ for the Rutan
experimentals. (Canards). I only throttle the personal attacks and
fights. That keeps the
list healthy, so maybe a little bit of moderate activity may be good.
The previous Canard moderator was a bit like the GG moderator and almost
killed it with real censorship. I try to keep it very open.
Walt
Gil Alexander wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
>
>Linn ... and then most folks moved from the Matronics one
>to http://www.vansairforce.net/ which is strictly controlled...... gil A
>
>At 05:29 PM 4/12/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn Walters
>><pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>>
>>Walt Beaulieu wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Walt Beaulieu
>>>
>>>
>><aviation@acs-group.net>
>>
>>
>>>Inertia rules... It would take some considerable marketing to dry up the
>>>nazi list and move everone somewhere else though.
>>>
>>>
Message 5
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--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
No, it's Brad Brotherton.
Altitude is anything you want, but it can only really take advantage of the
turbo during climb because of the fixed pitch prop, a Sensenich pitched to
66" as I recall. About 3" MP over atmospheric will overspeed the engine
even with that pitch. I had heard that at $25,000 ft. it was still climbing
at 400 fpm. It is faster than other Tigers down low due to the 66" pitch,
probably pretty close to your plane, Gary. The MT prop would be a very nice
prop to try and should improve the cruise significantly at altitude.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <TeamGrumman@AOL.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:29 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Turbo Tiger
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
> I think it's Joe Bruer who has/had a turbo Tiger. Correct me Cliff.
>
> What was it's cruise altitude and what did it true out at?
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Steve Roberts wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
>
>
snip
>I just wish there could be
>a list where we *all* could feel welcome and included be it a
>Yankee/Trainer/Traveler/Cheetah or Tiger, oh yes Cougars too.
>
Whoa! I have a -1B (that hasn't flown in a couple of years} and don't
feel disenfranchised. I truly enjoy the freedom to discuss important
issues dealing with aviation here, that are forbidden on the 'other'
list. I comment when I can offer MY opinions and information, and have
never been chastised yet ...... catch the 'yet'???? Short of being a
forum with cartoons, jokes, sniping at the Pres ..... you get the idea
...... this is a very open forum and is my favorite Grumman site. Sorry
you don't feel welcome. I'm assuming you're not a member of the 'other'
list, are you???
Linn
>
>Do a lot, get a little;
>Do a little, get a lot;
>Do nothing, get it all.
>Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
>
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 4/12/06 6:51:15 AM, aa1bflyboy@msn.com writes:
>
>
> > The biggest complaint I have with that other list is it's selective on
>who
> > and what is bounced. If it we were bounced on an even playing field then
>I'd
> > have no issues with it. When is the AYA going to have a list of their
>own,
> > without a list Nazi?
> >
> >
>
>Doesn't this list serve that purpose?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
> Brad told me he usually cruised at 175 mph. It had a fixed pitch prop
> which
> severly limited t but it was certified for 25,000'. My notes get a little
> sketchy here again but he mentioned he flew it once 215mph TAS at 18000'
> and
> calculated that at 25,000 it would do 230mph TAS
>From what Brad told me I don't think it went anywhere near that fast at
altitude. It is very unrealistic to think that a turbocharged model of any
plane will increase cruise speed by 55 mph from a normally aspirated optimum
cruise altitude of 8000 ft. to 25,000 ft. About 25 mph would be the most
you would expect. And that would be in line with what Brad told me that he
expected 200 mph at high altitude.
Cliff
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
Walt... I think that's about the level of control that is needed.
I was in the first 100 members of Matt's original RV-list (circa 1997?)...
As the Internet grew, more builders joined, and specialized mailing lists
got large (like yours at over 1500) a few posters can negate the effort of
others, or put out so much chaff it's hard to find the nuggets. Also a
few posters carrying on personal attacks is distracting from the list
intent - I tend to think of the lists I'm on as mainly technical sources.
When the volume gets high, and the signal to noise ratio gets too annoying,
I tend to give up....
For our Grummans, I hope the www.bondline.org site created by Bob Stewart
is successful - I have been adding to his effort.
Matt does have a great search feature though....
gil in Tucson....
At 05:00 AM 4/13/2006, you wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Walt Beaulieu <aviation@acs-group.net>
>
>That is interesting Gil, I moderate a group of 1500+ for the Rutan
>experimentals. (Canards). I only throttle the personal attacks and
>fights. That keeps the
>list healthy, so maybe a little bit of moderate activity may be good.
>The previous Canard moderator was a bit like the GG moderator and almost
>killed it with real censorship. I try to keep it very open.
>
>Walt
>
>
>Gil Alexander wrote:
>
> >--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gil Alexander
> <gilalex@earthlink.net>
> >
> >Linn ... and then most folks moved from the Matronics one
> >to http://www.vansairforce.net/ which is strictly
> controlled...... gil A
> >
> >At 05:29 PM 4/12/2006, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn Walters
> >><pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> >>
> >>Walt Beaulieu wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Walt Beaulieu
> >>>
> >>>
> >><aviation@acs-group.net>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Inertia rules... It would take some considerable marketing to dry up the
> >>>nazi list and move everone somewhere else though.
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
Message 9
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--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
At 04:46 AM 4/13/2006 Thursday, you wrote:
>Matt,
>
>Is there a way to post pictures for all the Team Grumman folks to see? Any help
would be appreciated!
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bruce Smith
Hi Bruce,
Yes, two ways. One is to use the Matronics Email List Photoshare found here:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
The other is to post your message from the new Matronics Email List BBS Forum,
and attach photos with your message. When viewed on the Forum, your message will
have the photos inline with the message, and when viewed on the standard email
distribution, URL links are found in the message that can be clicked upon
and the photos popped up automatically. The URL for the forum site is:
http://forums.matronics.com
Scroll down to the TeamGrummand-List section.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics List Admin
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Freedom of Speech |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 4/13/06 8:02:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
aviation@acs-group.net writes:
> The previous Canard moderator was a bit like the GG moderator and almost
> killed it with real censorship. I try to keep it very open.
>
> Walt
>
=============================
He did kill it for me! I was strongly considering a Long EZ and checked out
the group. The group just did not work for me, too many Lame Ducks! With a
very biased moderator. (Now, this was over 9 years ago.) If you can't accept
opinions and back up your opinions with facts then you are distant for Elmer
Fudds BlunderBuss or turn into a Daffy Duck.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
PS
Notice how many people complain but do nothing to change things?
The change is made, find it.
Message 11
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--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Bruce Smith <res02p3h@verizon.net>
Gary,
What's new in the AuCountry hangar?
Bruce Smith
PS. Happy Easter to all!
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 4/13/06 1:49:05 AM, aa1bflyboy@msn.com writes:
> I know you prefer to focus your work on the four place models and I take no
> issue with that. I just wish there could be a list where we *all* could feel
> welcome and included be it a Yankee/Trainer/Traveler/Cheetah or Tiger, oh
> yes Cougars too.
>
There is a lot of historical knowledge about Grummans, all of them, on this
list. Please feel free to ask and respond to any and all topics.
I prefer not to work on the 2-seat planes. There are a number of good ideas
in them, don't get me wrong. Hell, I soloed in one. I have spent the
better part of the last 25 plus years working on the 4-seat planes. If I were
looking for a doctor, I'd find one with experience with what ails me. (or ales
me .... ). If a Dr told me he'd done this or that once or twice, I'd keep
looking. So, when it comes to 2-seat Grummans, I refer them to Cliff or Ken
(Blackman). They have many times the experience I have with 2-seat planes.
This forum is for anyone interested in Grummans or airplanes in general.
I'm fairly certain builders of RVs and other experimentals have a lot of
experience with maintenance or ? in general they can share. If there are other
topics that come up unrelated to Grummans and it starts to go on and on, people
will get tired of reading and start deleting.
The point is, one topic could often lead to another topic, related or
unrelated. This free exchange of ideas has the potential for triggering other
topics. If those on this forum are airplane 'minded' people, airplane ideas will
come up. Everyone benefits from the endless chatter about planes. The
interaction is not that unlike sitting around the hangar and just chatting about
your favorite subject. Who knows, the solution to avoiding or prevnting
aviation user-fees might be found here.
Gary
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 4/13/06 1:49:07 AM, dralle@matronics.com writes:
> With everyone's concent, I would be more that happy to added the other
> models of aircraft in the Grumman line to the description.
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics.com Email List Admin.
>
I think Grumman series says it all. But, if it helps to add all the models
separately, let's do that.
Gary
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/11/06 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 4/13/06 1:49:28 AM, aa1bflyboy@msn.com writes:
> I used contact cement to adhear
> the new seal.
>
Also, I've found that DAP Weldwood contact cement works the best. Follow
the directions on the can. Don't skip the stirring step. Stir with a paint
stir stick to get the sediment off the bottom.
For the back of the canopy, I use a 3 inch wide piece of felt.
Message 15
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--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 4/13/06 1:51:41 PM, res02p3h@verizon.net writes:
> Gary,
>
> What's new in the AuCountry hangar?
>
> Bruce Smith
>
Well, as soon as I get Ed's plane out of my hangar (still waiting on the
engine to come back from LyCon), I'm going to do a top-end overhaul on Anna's
plane (I'm picking up her cylinders when I get Ed's engine). I'm also going to
start on a complete restoration of a 77 Tiger. It's low time, very clean, and
it's owner wants to make it as nice as he can afford.
It'll get a new paint job, new interior and new avionics. The engine has
300 hours on it.
The horizontal has cracks, so, that needs to be fixed. I talked with a DER
about making an STC for a doubler so the existing brackets do not need to be
debonded and new ones riveted in place. That never made any sense to me.
Those bonded on brackets are a lot stronger than any riveted piece being used to
replace them. If the problem is cracking in the corner, I'll design a
doubler that attaches to the existing structure that takes up the load in the
corners and stops further cracking. I will also get load data on the effect of
tying the vertical brackets to the ELT plate or simply tying them across the top
under the ELT plate. The finished doublers will make a bulkhead that looks
very similar to the bulkhead where the original Traveler horizontal (forward
attach) was attached.
Gary
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/11/06 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gilbert Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
Don't use the water soluble stuff...
...go for the smelly, tan colored, solvent-laden stuff.... gil A
-----Original Message-----
>From: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>Sent: Apr 13, 2006 4:57 PM
>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/11/06
>
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 4/13/06 1:49:28 AM, aa1bflyboy@msn.com writes:
>
>
>> I used contact cement to adhear
>> the new seal.
>>
>
>Also, I've found that DAP Weldwood contact cement works the best. Follow
>the directions on the can. Don't skip the stirring step. Stir with a paint
>stir stick to get the sediment off the bottom.
>
>For the back of the canopy, I use a 3 inch wide piece of felt.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
So, when it comes to 2-seat Grummans, I refer them to Cliff or Ken
(Blackman). They have many times the experience I have with 2-seat planes.
I don't really have all that much experience on the 2 place models as I work
on about twenty 4 place models to every one 2 place. After all the work
I've done on my Lynx I am becoming more of an "expert" on them. Ken
Blackman is the real expert on the 2 place Grummans. There really isn't
that much difference between them.
Cliff
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
Grumman series is fine with me but it (the list description) specified
Cheetah/Tiger... I like this forum, and the freedom it gives. Keep up the
good work guys and keep the helpful info flowing. I guess where I was coming
from is, why doesn't the AYA do something for us like this? I had brought it
up at the member's meeting in Baraboo. Many responded that they felt it
would be nice as well. But if this group is for *all* of us Grumman pilots
that should fit the bill just fine.
Has anyone figured out how we can post pics yet?
Do a lot, get a little;
Do a little, get a lot;
Do nothing, get it all.
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: TeamGrumman@aol.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 4/13/06 1:49:07 AM, dralle@matronics.com writes:
> With everyone's concent, I would be more that happy to added the other
> models of aircraft in the Grumman line to the description.
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics.com Email List Admin.
>
I think Grumman series says it all. But, if it helps to add all the models
separately, let's do that.
Gary
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
Linn, yes I'm a memeber of the other list. In fact I just posted there where
you had posted yesterday. Only about 50% of my posts are actually posted
there. Others are rejected as he says it's not "trimmed" well enough. I was
just questioning the identifier tag where only Cheetah/Tiger was listed.
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
...... this is a very open forum and is my favorite Grumman site. Sorry
you don't feel welcome. I'm assuming you're not a member of the 'other'
list, are you???
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Freedom of Speach - Spelled speech |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 4/13/06 10:03:47 PM, aa1bflyboy@msn.com writes:
> Has anyone figured out how we can post pics yet?
>
>
>From Matt . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Yes, two ways.=A0 One is to use the Matronics Email List Photoshare found here:
=A0 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
The other is to post your message from the new Matronics Email List BBS
Forum, and attach photos with your message.=A0 When viewed on the Forum, your message
will have the photos inline with the message, and when viewed on the standard
email distribution, URL links are found in the message that can be clicked
upon and the photos popped up automatically.=A0 The URL for the forum site is:
=A0 http://forums.matronics.com
Scroll down to the TeamGrummand-List section.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics List Admin
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