Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:05 AM - Re: oil cooler issues (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
2. 03:57 AM - Re: oil cooler issues (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
3. 05:07 AM - Re: prop pitch question (Bruce Smith)
4. 11:59 AM - Re: prop pitch question (TeamGrumman@aol.com)
5. 12:37 PM - Re: prop pitch question (Bruce Smith)
6. 03:05 PM - AYA convention 0.19 MISSING_HEADERS Missing To: header 0.13 TO_CC_NONE No To: or Cc: header (linn Walters)
7. 09:38 PM - Re: prop pitch question (TeamGrumman@aol.com)
8. 09:53 PM - Re: prop pitch question (Steve Roberts)
9. 09:53 PM - Re: oil cooler issues (Stephen Stinis)
10. 10:35 PM - Re: oil cooler issues (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: oil cooler issues |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 4/18/06 11:36:50 PM, stinis@cox.net writes:
> To stop the high oil temp, I recently put an oversized oil cooler on it,
> and
> no change.=A0 This particular aircraft has oversized scopes located under=20the
> cowling and also has an exhaust speed faring.=A0 Do any of you think this
> would have any factor that would make it worse than a stock grumman?=A0 I=20also
> took the sending unit out and replaced it with a new one. I also put both
> sending units in boiling water along with the gauges to see if there was
> something wrong...but everything seems to be accurate. We also verified the
> thermostat was opening as well.=A0 The funny thing is you would assume your
> cylinder temps would rise....well they were around 360 degrees.=A0=A0 The
> particualar aircraft has an EI gauge which is helpful.
>
I would look seriously at the baffles and baffle seals. Particularly the
ones behind the nose bowl.
Fly it up to Auburn and let's take a look at it. Or, when I go to get
Travis' plane at Fox, I could meet you there and look at it.
I flew out of Fox for 22 years and the highest oil temp I ever saw was 220.=20
Gary
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: oil cooler issues |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 4/19/06 2:36:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stinis@cox.net
writes:
> To stop the high oil temp, I recently put an oversized oil cooler on it,
and
> no change. This particular aircraft has oversized scopes located under
the
> cowling and also has an exhaust speed faring. Do any of you think this
> would have any factor that would make it worse than a stock grumman? I
also
> took the sending unit out and replaced it with a new one. I also put both
> sending units in boiling water along with the gauges to see if there was
> something wrong...but everything seems to be accurate. We also verified
the
> thermostat was opening as well. The funny thing is you would assume your
> cylinder temps would rise....well they were around 360 degrees. The
> particualar aircraft has an EI gauge which is helpful.
> Someone recommended to cross the oil lines at the oil cooler. He said
> sometimes they could be switched internally...but, I've never heard of
that
> before. Every Grumman I've seen is rigged the same way I have it. I also
> have another grumman that flies better in the heat. The hottest I've see
> the oil temp is around 200 degrees and it's a stock AA5B. It doesn't
haven
> any of the mods I mentioned before on the other. Right now, were all
> scratching our heads as to why this aircraft is at least 40-60 degrees
> warmer than the other grumman.
>
> Any thoughts/suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stephen
==========================
Stephen:
The good part is that a larger oil cooler is a good thing.
Swapping the oil lines does NOTHING! There is NOTHING to swap internally.
B.O.B.S.
But, from what you describe the problem sounds like your Vernatherm. Pull it
and inspect it ... You are looking for two things:
1 - WEAR MARKS - A wear ring on the shinny stainless steel seat. Yes, there
should be a small ring but not deep or uneven rings. Bring it to your A&P if
you are not familiar with what normal one looks like. Best way to check
function is to swap with a good one.
2 - There is an AD against older Vernatherms, to inspect the secureness of
the crimped end nut. Newer ones have a roll pin through the nut & shaft.
I would also check the quality of the ring lug connection on the temperature
sending unit. DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN! Use a new internal star washer.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: prop pitch question |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Bruce Smith <bruce.smith@york.com>
Gary,
What is the position of the measurements you have listed below for
pitch. I'm guessing that the 62 is midpoint on the blade. Correct?
Bruce
Depending on how strong your engine is, I'd see if I could get a custom
twist
with the twist at 64-62-60.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: prop pitch question |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 4/19/06 5:08:00 AM, bruce.smith@york.com writes:
> 64 (first third, near the hub) - 62 (middle) - 60 (tip).
>
>
And, I should have said you'll get back about 150 rpm for climb.
A certain someone I know had one of the new Cheetah Sensenich props pitched
63-62-61, gained 200 fpm rate of climb AND gained 2 knots. But, he was able
to run WAY over redline at 7500 feet. Now, he can turn redline at 9000
feet.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: prop pitch question |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Bruce Smith <bruce.smith@york.com>
I would imagine that this is in a Cheetah with the HC mod that's been
further massaged by the folks at Lycon. I wonder what that kind of an
engine might produce on a dyno...
Bruce
TeamGrumman@aol.com said the following on 4/19/2006 2:57 PM:
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 4/19/06 5:08:00 AM, bruce.smith@york.com writes:
>
>
>
>> 64 (first third, near the hub) - 62 (middle) - 60 (tip).
>>
>>
>>
>
> And, I should have said you'll get back about 150 rpm for climb.
>
> A certain someone I know had one of the new Cheetah Sensenich props pitched
> 63-62-61, gained 200 fpm rate of climb AND gained 2 knots. But, he was able
> to run WAY over redline at 7500 feet. Now, he can turn redline at 9000
> feet.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | AYA convention 0.19 MISSING_HEADERS Missing |
To: header 0.13 TO_CC_NONE No To: or Cc: header
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
My ride to the convention is already out west and doesn't see an
economic benefit to coming to FL to pick me up!!! Imagine that.
So, I'm looking for a vacant seat on a plane from FL to TX for the
convention. I missed last years convention for the same reason, and I'm
hoping this year will be different.
I have the offer to share a room, but I'm looking to share expenses for
the trip out and back (of course!!).
I'm based at X59, Valkaria Airport, the first airport south of Melbourne
.... FL (just in case you're going to fly from Oz!!)
Help me out here guys & Gals!!!
Linn
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: prop pitch question |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 4/19/06 12:37:54 PM, bruce.smith@york.com writes:
> I would imagine that this is in a Cheetah with the HC mod that's been
> further massaged by the folks at Lycon. I wonder what that kind of an
> engine might produce on a dyno...
>
> Bruce
>
actually, no. This engine has 1500+ SMOH. 77 Cheetah. Nothing trick on
this plane except a red rudder cap. Trues at 132 knots.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: prop pitch question |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
Has anyone evr done this with a prop for an AA1x model?
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 4/19/06 5:08:00 AM, bruce.smith@york.com writes:
> 64 (first third, near the hub) - 62 (middle) - 60 (tip).
>
>
And, I should have said you'll get back about 150 rpm for climb.
A certain someone I know had one of the new Cheetah Sensenich props pitched
63-62-61, gained 200 fpm rate of climb AND gained 2 knots. But, he was
able
to run WAY over redline at 7500 feet. Now, he can turn redline at 9000
feet.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: oil cooler issues |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Stephen Stinis" <stinis@cox.net>
Thanks all for your help and suggestions. We messed with the Vernatherm and
verified all baffling was good. We didn't see any issues upon inspection,
but I think taking it out and looking at it probably did something when it
was all back together. Climbing out at 70kts, 85 degrees outside
through 8500 ft. the oil temp reached 230 degrees at maximum. Upon level
flight, it would cruise around 215 degrees. Upon landing it was around 190
degrees. Does this seem normal?
Thanks again for your help.
Stephen
----- Original Message -----
From: <FLYaDIVE@aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: oil cooler issues
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 4/19/06 2:36:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> stinis@cox.net
> writes:
>
>> To stop the high oil temp, I recently put an oversized oil cooler on it,
> and
>> no change. This particular aircraft has oversized scopes located under
> the
>> cowling and also has an exhaust speed faring. Do any of you think this
>> would have any factor that would make it worse than a stock grumman? I
> also
>> took the sending unit out and replaced it with a new one. I also put
>> both
>> sending units in boiling water along with the gauges to see if there was
>> something wrong...but everything seems to be accurate. We also verified
> the
>> thermostat was opening as well. The funny thing is you would assume
>> your
>> cylinder temps would rise....well they were around 360 degrees. The
>> particualar aircraft has an EI gauge which is helpful.
>> Someone recommended to cross the oil lines at the oil cooler. He said
>> sometimes they could be switched internally...but, I've never heard of
> that
>> before. Every Grumman I've seen is rigged the same way I have it. I
>> also
>> have another grumman that flies better in the heat. The hottest I've
>> see
>> the oil temp is around 200 degrees and it's a stock AA5B. It doesn't
> haven
>> any of the mods I mentioned before on the other. Right now, were all
>> scratching our heads as to why this aircraft is at least 40-60 degrees
>> warmer than the other grumman.
>>
>> Any thoughts/suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Stephen
> ==========================
> Stephen:
>
> The good part is that a larger oil cooler is a good thing.
> Swapping the oil lines does NOTHING! There is NOTHING to swap internally.
> B.O.B.S.
> But, from what you describe the problem sounds like your Vernatherm. Pull
> it
> and inspect it ... You are looking for two things:
> 1 - WEAR MARKS - A wear ring on the shinny stainless steel seat. Yes,
> there
> should be a small ring but not deep or uneven rings. Bring it to your A&P
> if
> you are not familiar with what normal one looks like. Best way to check
> function is to swap with a good one.
> 2 - There is an AD against older Vernatherms, to inspect the secureness of
> the crimped end nut. Newer ones have a roll pin through the nut & shaft.
>
> I would also check the quality of the ring lug connection on the
> temperature
> sending unit. DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN! Use a new internal star washer.
>
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: oil cooler issues |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 4/19/06 9:54:25 PM, stinis@cox.net writes:
> Climbing out at 70kts, 85 degrees outside
> through 8500 ft. the oil temp reached 230 degrees at maximum.=A0 Upon level
> flight, it would cruise around 215 degrees.=A0 Upon landing it was around=20190
> degrees.=A0 Does this seem normal?
>
> Thanks again for your help.
>
The oil temp, typically, never goes much over 180 to 190 degrees. I have a
digital oil temp sensor and my temp is typlically 180 to 181 under most
conditions.
Gary
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