Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:50 PM - Really pissed off customer (teamgrumman@AOL.COM)
2. 01:17 PM - Re: Really pissed off customer (Kevin)
3. 01:30 PM - Re: Really pissed off customer (Steve Jackson)
4. 02:50 PM - Re: Really pissed off customer ()
5. 09:01 PM - Re: Really pissed off customer (teamgrumman@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Really pissed off customer |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: teamgrumman@aol.com
Yep, I really pissed off a customer today. He's from SoCal. He
brought his 92 Tiger up in July to get the engine removed (and
overhauled by Lycon), an annual, and a FWF cleanup. Well, I got the
engine about a week ago and I've been installing it. In the process,
I've been cleaning up a lot of wiring.
Anyway. The Tiger owner had negotiated the overhaul with LyCon before
hand (no, it didn't bother me that I missed out on the rebate Ken gives
me, cause I usually pass it on to the customer anyway ... whatever).
He wanted the LASAR mags and high altitude-fine wire plugs (the RHM vs
the REM. Apparently, someone is telling him they are better). When he
dropped off the plane, he said he wanted me to measure for the LASAR
wiring harness ahead of time because they take a lot of lead time. A
week or so later, we did a 3-way with a friend of his who is apparently
familiar with LASAR installations. His friend said, "Get some 1/4 inch
clear vinyl tubing and use it to find the length you'll need to order
for the LASAR."
OK, I'll try that. Not having the LASAR control box in hand or knowing
anything about the LASAR or how it's hooked up, I tried to imagine
where the box would fit and where the wires should go. I figured the
size of the control box to be about the size of a paperback. I thought
the harness would plug directly into the mags (as it turns out, there
is a 10 inch lead on each mag. Plus, the leads have a modual of some
sort, about 2 to 3 inches long and an inch in diameter, mounted about
mid length so the lead from the mag isn't really all that flexible).
OK, if the harness plugs into the mags and the module is about 4 x 6
inches, it can be mounted here, here, or here. I didn't know if the
controller could be mounted inside or outside the cabin or even if it
had a preference (sideways, upsidedown, ...) to how it's mounted.
After layiing out the wiring about a dozen different ways and coming up
with a lot of different lengths, I decided to wait for the engine and
LASAR controller. Too many variables to do a clean installation. If
you know me, I HATE hacked installations. I especially hate wires
draped from the fireway to the engine and all but making maintenance in
the engine compartment totally impossible. Speaking of, whoever
installed the JPI, did just that. Wires everywhere. What a mess.
Back to the story.
Sometime after the engine went to LyCon, the owner called to see if I
could get LyCon to hurry the overhaul. He called a few times after
that to see how far along engine was and when it could be finished.
Each time I'd call Ken (at LyCon), I'd get the same story: it's being
worked on. If you've ever done business with LyCon, you know they work
at one speed.
During one of those conversations following his freind's instructions
to me on how to measure the wires for the LASAR ignition harness, the
Tiger owner said, "Did you measure the lengths for the harness?" I
told him I wasn't sure where to measure to or where to measure from.
Since "I" wanted to do the best job possible, I told him I wanted to
wait until the engine got back to me before I would know what harness I
needed." (Also, now that I have the installation instructions and
can see how the harness is supposed to be measured and which 'dash'
number I needed to order. Without that, it would be impossible to
know.)
Apparently, the Tiger owner either didn't hear me say that or I wasn't
clear that I wanted to wait. Either way, he wasn't aware I wanted to
wait. SOOOOOO, I got it all wired up yesterday; mostly, anyway. That
is, all except for installing the LASAR controller and the harness.
When I started putting the controller in, I saw that it was a 12 volt
controller; that would need to be exhanged. For the harness, I had Ken
(at LyCon) send me the most commonly ordered harness. When I tried to
install the harness ... oops, there was no way it would ever fit. So,
I'd have to custom order a harness. I called Ken; he told me it was a
6 week lead time. I asked Ken to see if he could get one saying we had
an AOG (Aircraft on ground). He has been calling around to find one
since yesterday.
This morning, the Tiger owner called to see how the installation was
coming along. I explained that I had the engine mostly all hooked up
and wanted to know if he wanted new baffles and baffle seals. Then, I
added, "The harness I have for the LASAR won't fit. I need to order
another one. Ken said it would take 6 weeks. Well, the owner started
yelling at me, saying I totally ignored his instructions to measure for
the harness ahead of time, telling me I didn't do what I was supposed
to do, and on and on, and on. He wouldn't let me explain to him what
transpired between him dropping off the plane and yestarday. At one
point, I started yelling just trying to get his attention. He was
really pissed-off and only wanted his plane back. We hung up. I let
him cool down, then called back about 20 minutes later to talk to him.
Within minutes he's yelling at me again telling me how I had total
disregard for his instructions to measure for the harness and order it
ahead of time. He said he wasn't waiting another 6 weeks. When I
tried to explain that I tried to measure but didn't know from WHERE to
measure or where to measure TO, he just kept yelling that I had ignored
him and showed total disregard for his instructions. When he took a
breath, I said, "Help me out here, how was I to measure something I had
no idea how to measure?" He told me, "That is your job. (or something
to that effect)" Clearly, this conversation wasn't going anywhere.
Then he said, "Just put the old mags back on and fly it down here."
That wasn't going to happen. By the time I got the mags (back from
Ken) and get a new mag wiring harness for the RHM plugs, put that all
back together, I would have had all the LASAR parts back.
So, I'm waiting to hear from Ken. In the mean time, I'm still putting
everything back together. Right now, I have 3 more planes waiting for
annuals. By the end of October, I'll have 3 more. If I have to wait 6
weeks, that puts it into the end of November. I have 4 more planes
coming in in November. Trust me, no one wants his plane out of my
hangar more than me.
Gary
PS, when he brought his plane in last July, I had 8 planes backed up.
I moved his to the head of the line to get the engine to LyCon as soon
as possible.
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Really pissed off customer |
Some people are just completely unreasonable in their expectations.
BTW, do you think you can get my annual done the same day I bring it in? :)
--
Kevin
AA5B
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Really pissed off customer |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steve Jackson" <steven.jackson@ssinternet.net>
Sounds like he got a lot of "advice" from his friend that basically told him how
you should do the work. Obviously his friend isn't an A&P or he would not have
brought the plane to you. So, his "expert" buddy pumped him full of information
about how to make it all happen. And, when you didn't do what his buddy
told him you should do, he got bent out of shape. With the amount of work it
seems you have backlogged, who needs customers like that?
Steve Jackson
AA-1B
N1434R
Reno, NV
--- teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Really pissed off customer
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: teamgrumman@aol.com
Yep, I really pissed off a customer today. He's from SoCal. He
brought his 92 Tiger up in July to get the engine removed (and
overhauled by Lycon), an annual, and a FWF cleanup. Well, I got the
engine about a week ago and I've been installing it. In the process,
I've been cleaning up a lot of wiring.
Anyway. The Tiger owner had negotiated the overhaul with LyCon before
hand (no, it didn't bother me that I missed out on the rebate Ken gives
me, cause I usually pass it on to the customer anyway ... whatever).
He wanted the LASAR mags and high altitude-fine wire plugs (the RHM vs
the REM. Apparently, someone is telling him they are better). When he
dropped off the plane, he said he wanted me to measure for the LASAR
wiring harness ahead of time because they take a lot of lead time. A
week or so later, we did a 3-way with a friend of his who is apparently
familiar with LASAR installations. His friend said, "Get some 1/4 inch
clear vinyl tubing and use it to find the length you'll need to order
for the LASAR."
OK, I'll try that. Not having the LASAR control box in hand or knowing
anything about the LASAR or how it's hooked up, I tried to imagine
where the box would fit and where the wires should go. I figured the
size of the control box to be about the size of a paperback. I thought
the harness would plug directly into the mags (as it turns out, there
is a 10 inch lead on each mag. Plus, the leads have a modual of some
sort, about 2 to 3 inches long and an inch in diameter, mounted about
mid length so the lead from the mag isn't really all that flexible).
OK, if the harness plugs into the mags and the module is about 4 x 6
inches, it can be mounted here, here, or here. I didn't know if the
controller could be mounted inside or outside the cabin or even if it
had a preference (sideways, upsidedown, ...) to how it's mounted.
After layiing out the wiring about a dozen different ways and coming up
with a lot of different lengths, I decided to wait for the engine and
LASAR controller. Too many variables to do a clean installation. If
you know me, I HATE hacked installations. I especially hate wires
draped from the fireway to the engine and all but making maintenance in
the engine compartment totally impossible. Speaking of, whoever
installed the JPI, did just that. Wires everywhere. What a mess.
Back to the story.
Sometime after the engine went to LyCon, the owner called to see if I
could get LyCon to hurry the overhaul. He called a few times after
that to see how far along engine was and when it could be finished.
Each time I'd call Ken (at LyCon), I'd get the same story: it's being
worked on. If you've ever done business with LyCon, you know they work
at one speed.
During one of those conversations following his freind's instructions
to me on how to measure the wires for the LASAR ignition harness, the
Tiger owner said, "Did you measure the lengths for the harness?" I
told him I wasn't sure where to measure to or where to measure from.
Since "I" wanted to do the best job possible, I told him I wanted to
wait until the engine got back to me before I would know what harness I
needed." (Also, now that I have the installation instructions and
can see how the harness is supposed to be measured and which 'dash'
number I needed to order. Without that, it would be impossible to
know.)
Apparently, the Tiger owner either didn't hear me say that or I wasn't
clear that I wanted to wait. Either way, he wasn't aware I wanted to
wait. SOOOOOO, I got it all wired up yesterday; mostly, anyway. That
is, all except for installing the LASAR controller and the harness.
When I started putting the controller in, I saw that it was a 12 volt
controller; that would need to be exhanged. For the harness, I had Ken
(at LyCon) send me the most commonly ordered harness. When I tried to
install the harness ... oops, there was no way it would ever fit. So,
I'd have to custom order a harness. I called Ken; he told me it was a
6 week lead time. I asked Ken to see if he could get one saying we had
an AOG (Aircraft on ground). He has been calling around to find one
since yesterday.
This morning, the Tiger owner called to see how the installation was
coming along. I explained that I had the engine mostly all hooked up
and wanted to know if he wanted new baffles and baffle seals. Then, I
added, "The harness I have for the LASAR won't fit. I need to order
another one. Ken said it would take 6 weeks. Well, the owner started
yelling at me, saying I totally ignored his instructions to measure for
the harness ahead of time, telling me I didn't do what I was supposed
to do, and on and on, and on. He wouldn't let me explain to him what
transpired between him dropping off the plane and yestarday. At one
point, I started yelling just trying to get his attention. He was
really pissed-off and only wanted his plane back. We hung up. I let
him cool down, then called back about 20 minutes later to talk to him.
Within minutes he's yelling at me again telling me how I had total
disregard for his instructions to measure for the harness and order it
ahead of time. He said he wasn't waiting another 6 weeks. When I
tried to explain that I tried to measure but didn't know from WHERE to
measure or where to measure TO, he just kept yelling that I had ignored
him and showed total disregard for his instructions. When he took a
breath, I said, "Help me out here, how was I to measure something I had
no idea how to measure?" He told me, "That is your job. (or something
to that effect)" Clearly, this conversation wasn't going anywhere.
Then he said, "Just put the old mags back on and fly it down here."
That wasn't going to happen. By the time I got the mags (back from
Ken) and get a new mag wiring harness for the RHM plugs, put that all
back together, I would have had all the LASAR parts back.
So, I'm waiting to hear from Ken. In the mean time, I'm still putting
everything back together. Right now, I have 3 more planes waiting for
annuals. By the end of October, I'll have 3 more. If I have to wait 6
weeks, that puts it into the end of November. I have 4 more planes
coming in in November. Trust me, no one wants his plane out of my
hangar more than me.
Gary
PS, when he brought his plane in last July, I had 8 planes backed up.
I moved his to the head of the line to get the engine to LyCon as soon
as possible.
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Really pissed off customer |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: <923te@cox.net>
Gary,
Maybe I could help you out. I have a LASAR on my AG5B that is a 24volt system.
I have a spare harness that I intend to use to move my controller inside the cocpit
with. It is 48" long. The harness on the plane is 18" long I believe. I
won't be flying for a few weeks and I could have any of these parts removed and
shipped if it will help.
There may be another way to get new lasar parts quicker. Call Steve Carter the
LASAR engineer. He knows vendors with on shelf parts, one is in Canada, he can
give you phone numbers, anyway, he can also get parts hurried up in the production
schedule. His number in Florida is:
904 739-4068
if he's not in be sure to leave him a message he will call back.
Whenever you finaly get the parts be sure you DO NOT HOOK UP THE POWER UNTIL THE
CONTROLLER IS GROUNDED AND BE SURE TO GET THE POLARITY RIGHT. IF NOT IT WILL
FRY THE CONTROLLER AND THE CONTROLLING MAG.....(don't even ask)
Let me know if I can help.
Best Regards,
Ned
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Really pissed off customer |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: teamgrumman@aol.com
Sure. And. There are nice 3 bed/2bath homes here in Auburn under
$90,000.
I do have your prop ready though. As it turned out, the prop giu from
Stockton propeller was in the neighborhood a week or so ago and picked
up the 6 props I needed overhauled and picked up your prop and spacer.
They are going to double check the track angles while they have it.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: n9242z+teamgrumman@gmail.com
Sent: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Really pissed off customer
Some people are just completely unreasonable in their expectations.
BTW, do you think you can get my annual done the same day I bring it
in? :)
--
Kevin
AA5B
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