Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:17 AM - Re: Boooom Beam (teamgrumman@aol.com)
2. 02:54 AM - Battery and Starter Relays (Mark T. Mueller)
3. 04:54 AM - Re: Boooom Beam (Steve Roberts)
4. 06:05 AM - Re: [~~~] Re: Boooom Beam (Weir, Douglas (CALYON))
5. 07:02 AM - Re: Battery and Starter Relays. (flyv35b)
6. 10:25 AM - Re: Boooom Beam (Rick)
7. 11:55 AM - Re: [~~~] Re: Boooom Beam (teamgrumman@aol.com)
8. 11:58 AM - Re: [~~~] Re: Boooom Beam (teamgrumman@aol.com)
9. 12:04 PM - Re: Battery and Starter Relays. (teamgrumman@aol.com)
10. 12:06 PM - Re: Boooom Beam (teamgrumman@aol.com)
11. 12:06 PM - Re: Boooom Beam (teamgrumman@aol.com)
Message 1
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Rick, you should be spending money on Avionics and forget the fluff.
Bells and whistles. Sure, bring the 'thing' up and we'll get it
installed. Who knows, I might like it.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: rdp123@verizon.net
Sent: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:25 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Boooom Beam
Gary, I just received my new Boom Beam kit. Have you installed one yet?
Want to?
Rick Pollack Tiger 4542N SMO
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Battery and Starter Relays |
Gary,
When I was researching relays (both of them) for my Tiger, I found Wicks had
the correct items in stock, but that was 4 years ago.
Its almost like my "Costco Rule", if they happen to have what you like in
stock, buy at least two because you don't know if it will be in stock next
time you go back...
Mark
Message 3
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Gary, if you like the HID light check out <www.xevision.com>. There are a
group of us getting together and doing a group buy. I think you have until
January 31st to get in on the buy. We are getting a 50W rather than a 35W
(you can get the 35W if you would rather though) for under $500. The only
drawback is it's not STCed yet. But we are having a great sucsess rate of
getting field approvals though. Also for two place pilots the Boom Beam STC
doesn't cover you anyway. Oh yes there is another drawback the Boom Beam
includes the click bond studs and the XeVision doesn't. Although you can buy
them from Aircraft Spruce for $8.85. I'll probably just use rivnuts. Hardley
seems worth the extra coin for the Boom Beam to me.
The contact for the buy is Doug Weir <Douglas.Weir@us.calyon.com>
If I'm right I have no need to be angry;
If I'm wrong I have no right to be...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
Rick, you should be spending money on Avionics and forget the fluff. Bells
and whistles. Sure, bring the 'thing' up and we'll get it installed. Who
knows, I might like it.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary, I just received my new Boom Beam kit. Have you installed one yet?
Want to?
Message 4
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Actual prices are $400 for a 35w system (same as BB), and $440 for a 50w
system - this is 20% off retail for our group purchase.
Also, according to John Sjaardema at Excel Air, the BB installation
required additional labor to install since it is deeper than the
XeVision. A hole was cut in the baffling and a pie-pan (included in the
kit, I understand) was installed behind the baffle to allow for
additional clearance. Then the pie-pan was interfering with the
muffler, which required more modification...
Let us know what your experience is with the BB install.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Roberts [mailto:aa1bflyboy@msn.com]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 7:54 AM
Subject: [~~~] Re: TeamGrumman-List: Boooom Beam
Gary, if you like the HID light check out <www.xevision.com>. There are
a
group of us getting together and doing a group buy. I think you have
until
January 31st to get in on the buy. We are getting a 50W rather than a
35W
(you can get the 35W if you would rather though) for under $500. The
only
drawback is it's not STCed yet. But we are having a great sucsess rate
of
getting field approvals though. Also for two place pilots the Boom Beam
STC
doesn't cover you anyway. Oh yes there is another drawback the Boom Beam
includes the click bond studs and the XeVision doesn't. Although you can
buy
them from Aircraft Spruce for $8.85. I'll probably just use rivnuts.
Hardley
seems worth the extra coin for the Boom Beam to me.
The contact for the buy is Doug Weir <Douglas.Weir@us.calyon.com>
If I'm right I have no need to be angry;
If I'm wrong I have no right to be...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
Rick, you should be spending money on Avionics and forget the fluff.
Bells
and whistles. Sure, bring the 'thing' up and we'll get it installed.
Who
knows, I might like it.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary, I just received my new Boom Beam kit. Have you installed one yet?
Want to?
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Battery and Starter Relays. |
Good info Gary! This subject has been discussed on the GG many times in the
past and I'm sure the wrong relays have been installed in the past,
particularly the starter relay.
I think the starter relay, which is intermittent has a stronger coil which
draws more current and "sucks" the contacts together with more force and
quicker than the continuous duty master contactor. This probably is done to
minimize the arcing that occurs with the much higher current draw on the
starter contactor. I have seen a continuous duty contactor installed for
the starter relay that apparently had the contacts "welded" together. What
was scary was when you turned on the master switch the starter engaged and
the prop rotated! Don't ever stand in the way of a prop even when you think
nothing is going to happen.
Another thing of interest is the current draw with the Skytec Flyweight
starter, which many people have retrofitted, is considerably higher that
with the original Prestolite or Skytec's newer in-line Hi-Torque starter by
about 100 amps! I feel that this will cause more contact arcing in the
starter relay and shorten it's life possibly. The permanent magnet
Flyweight starter also has a characteristic where it does not disengage for
a couple of seconds after the engine starts or after the starter button is
released. You can hear the gears "grinding" so to speak if you pay
attention. I've seen one starter that literally exploded when it didn't
disengage and was oversped as the engine was revved up. Because of these 2
things I prefer Skytec's newer in-line Hi-Torque starter over the Flyweight
even though it is more expensive and weighs about 1.5 lb more.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: <teamgrumman@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:22 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Battery and Starter Relays.
>
> I'm doing a firewall forward restoration on a Cheetah. The relays look
> pretty bad. One of them has some sort of plastic stuff leaking out.
> Knowing that it's such a pain in the ass to change the relays, I wanted to
> get new ones. Easier said than done.
>
> I started with the Aircraft Spruce catalog. Then, the Wag-Aero catalog.
> Then, the Chief Aircraft catalog. Not being content with accepting what
> they have, I started researching just what the different part numbers
> mean.
>
> The company that made the relays on our Grummans was bought out by the
> White-Rodgers Division of Emerson Electric Co. in St Louis, MO. Getting
> from their web site to the specifications of, and the definitions for the
> relays wasn't so easy.
>
> What I found out was, the relays we use are Type 70 solenoids. The
> battery relay is a continuous duty relay. The starter is an intermettent
> duty relay. The part numbers break down like this: 70 - x xx xxx - x
>
> 70: type of relay
> x: this tells what kind of relay, normally open (1) or SPDT (3).
> xx: This tells the voltage for the relay.
> There is a post in the gg archive for a starter solenoid that gives
> a part number
> starting with 70- 109 xxx - x. It's wrong. 109 is a 6 volt relay.
> - For continuous 12 volt, the number is 11
> - For intermettent 12 volt, the number is 12
> xxx: This gives the coil termination description. The two we need to
> know about is 225 and 226
> 225: is for a coil grounded to the relay case.
> - To activate this one, voltage is applied to the small
> terminal.
> 226: is for the coil connected to the battery side of the solenoid.
> - To activate this one, ground is applied to the small
> terminal.
> x: the last x tells what kind of a mounting hardware it has. 5 is
> typical.
>
> SO . . . .
> Battery relay: 70-111 226-5 Aircraft Spruce has this one.
> The Battery relay that Wag-Aero has is 70-111 225-5.
> That means it needs voltage applied to work.
> The Master switch on the AA5x goes to ground so it
> won't work.
> Starter relay: 70-112 225-5 Wag-Aero has this one.
>
> Without that bit of info, the wrong relay could be ordered easily.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>
>
> --
> 12/13/2006
>
>
Message 6
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Fluff?
Gary, I spend most of my money on wine, woman (wife) and song. But I do
like seeing where I am heading so Boom Beam it shall be.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Boooom Beam
Rick, you should be spending money on Avionics and forget the fluff.
Bells and whistles. Sure, bring the 'thing' up and we'll get it
installed. Who knows, I might like it.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: rdp123@verizon.net
Sent: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:25 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Boooom Beam
Gary, I just received my new Boom Beam kit. Have you installed one yet?
Want to?
Rick Pollack Tiger 4542N SMO
________________________________________________________________________
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Message 7
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at $40 for a replacement 4509Q bulb, that's 10 bulbs. At 1 bulb every
3 to 4 years (my average, you mileage may vary), that's 30 years of
bulbs. Some people just like to spend money on their planes. I'd
rather upgrade to a Garmin 530 from my 430. Sure, the cost difference
is more. But, I would get a lot more out of it too.
-----Original Message-----
Actual prices are $400 for a 35w system (same as BB), and $440 for a 50w
system - this is 20% off retail for our group purchase.
________________________________________________________________________
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Message 8
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If that's the case, it would never fit into my new cowling. I'm
stressing over whether or not to use the foam doughnut under the bulb
as it is.
-----Original Message-----
Also, according to John Sjaardema at Excel Air, the BB installation
required additional labor to install since it is deeper than the
XeVision. A hole was cut in the baffling and a pie-pan (included in the
kit, I understand) was installed behind the baffle to allow for
additional clearance. Then the pie-pan was interfering with the
muffler, which required more modification...
________________________________________________________________________
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Battery and Starter Relays. |
I put the in-line Sky-Tec on my plane. I've wondered about the life of
the starter relay. With a weak battery on a hot day with a hot engine,
I had trouble turning the engine over. New battery helped a lot.
-----Original Message-----
Another thing of interest is the current draw with the Skytec
Flyweight starter, which many people have retrofitted, is considerably
higher that with the original Prestolite or Skytec's newer in-line
Hi-Torque starter by about 100 amps! I feel that this will cause more
contact arcing in the starter relay and shorten it's life possibly. The
permanent magnet Flyweight starter also has a characteristic where it
does not disengage for a couple of seconds after the engine starts or
after the starter button is released. You can hear the gears "grinding"
so to speak if you pay attention. I've seen one starter that literally
exploded when it didn't disengage and was oversped as the engine was
revved up. Because of these 2 things I prefer Skytec's newer in-line
Hi-Torque starter over the Flyweight even though it is more expensive
and weighs about 1.5 lb more.
Cliff A&P/IA
________________________________________________________________________
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Message 10
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You only use it on the ground. Of course, taxiing in the coastal fog .
. . . I can see where you'd need more light.
-----Original Message-----
Gary, I spend most of my money on wine, woman (wife) and song. But I do
like seeing where I am heading so Boom Beam it shall be.
________________________________________________________________________
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Message 11
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You only use it on the ground. Of course, taxiing in the coastal fog .
. . . I can see where you'd need more light.
-----Original Message-----
Gary, I spend most of my money on wine, woman (wife) and song. But I do
like seeing where I am heading so Boom Beam it shall be.
________________________________________________________________________
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