---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/05/07: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:12 AM - Re: CE-04-34, Horizontal support (flyv35b) 2. 08:24 AM - Re: CE-04-34, Horizontal support (Gil Alexander) 3. 11:16 AM - Re: CE-04-34, Horizontal support (teamgrumman@aol.com) 4. 12:44 PM - Re: CE-04-34, Horizontal support (Gil Alexander) 5. 08:14 PM - Re: CE-04-34, Horizontal support (teamgrumman@aol.com) 6. 09:03 PM - Re: CE-04-34, Horizontal support (Gil Alexander) 7. 11:33 PM - Re: CE-04-34, Horizontal support (teamgrumman@aol.com) 8. 11:38 PM - Re: CE-04-34, Horizontal support (Gil Alexander) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:27 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support Gil, I have a Tiger in the shop right now with a crack from the attachment bolt hole to the edge of the angle on the RH side. The bonding of the othe r leg is fine and there is virtually not deformation of the angle. Do you have some photos of your plane and the repair you could email me=3F Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Gil Alexander To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:06 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support Gary, When I did it, I seem to remember it chipped off fairly easily... Of course, use an aluminum scraping edge so the base material isn't gouge d. And a final clean up with scotchbrite disk. gil in Tucson ... did that.... At 10:12 PM 4/4/2007, you wrote: This is mostly meant for Bob Stewart only because I think he's done thi s before. And Cliff too, if he's repaired this one. I've got the braces off. They came off fairly easily with a heat gun. Didn't require a whole lot of heat actually. What I need to know is . . . . . How do I get the rest of the adheasive off the skin of the fuselage=3F Do I sand it off with an orbital sander=3F Do I reheat it and scrape it=3F I tried picking at it a bit to see if it will come off. It's stuck prett y well. =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =5F from AOL at AOL.com. =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content now also available via the Web Forums! =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F-=========================================================== --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 1:09 PM -- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:13 AM PST US From: Gil Alexander Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support Boy ... the SAIB is old enough I thought they would have all been found by now...:^) No photos of the repair, but the damage is here... Check the little bend of the verticals that goes under the top plate... that seems to be a real weak point... upper left and upper right in the pics. I have a couple of drill bushings and a reamer that will help you drill the new bolt hole in the vertical webs... want to borrow them? I think that is the most critical part of the process.... fore and aft location can be fixed with shims with a Tiger part number... I have those drawings too, JPG copy attached... Pics are in this directory.... http://home.earthlink.net/~gilalex/Tiger/ ....hope this helps gil A ... waiting for cylinders to arrive at Bill Scott's place...:^) At 07:10 AM 4/5/2007, you wrote: >Gil, I have a Tiger in the shop right now with a crack from the attachment >bolt hole to the edge of the angle on the RH side. The bonding of the >other leg is fine and there is virtually not deformation of the angle. > >Do you have some photos of your plane and the repair you could email me? > >Cliff >----- Original Message ----- >From: Gil Alexander >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:06 PM >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support > >Gary, > >When I did it, I seem to remember it chipped off fairly easily... > >Of course, use an aluminum scraping edge so the base material isn't gouged. > >And a final clean up with scotchbrite disk. > >gil in Tucson ... did that.... > >At 10:12 PM 4/4/2007, you wrote: >>teamgrumman@aol.com >> >>This is mostly meant for Bob Stewart only because I think he's done this >>before. And Cliff too, if he's repaired this one. >> >>I've got the braces off. They came off fairly easily with a heat gun. >>Didn't require a whole lot of heat actually. What I need to know is . . >>. . . >> >>How do I get the rest of the adheasive off the skin of the fuselage? >>Do I sand it off with an orbital sander? Do I reheat it and scrape >>it? I tried picking at it a bit to see if it will come off. It's stuck >>pretty well. >>________________________________________________________________________ >>from AOL at AOL.com. > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > > >---------- >te: 4/4/2007 1:09 PM > > >---------- >It has remn their emails. >Try SPAMfighter for free now! > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support From: teamgrumman@aol.com The one I've got has the vertical braces buckled about twice as much as yours. So, how did you clean up the residual adheasive? I have a customer who got some cylinders done by BS. Two of them always used a lot of oil. We removed them and had LyCon go over them. When BS overhauled them, they were honed out-of-round. Lycon recut the cylinder (it only took less than .002) and installed some new rings. All is well now after 400 hours. Just a heads up. -----Original Message----- From: gilalex@earthlink.net Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 8:23 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support Boy ... the SAIB is old enough I thought they would have all been found by now...:^) No photos of the repair, but the damage is here... Check the little bend of the verticals that goes under the top plate... that seems to be a real weak point... upper left and upper right in the pics. I have a couple of drill bushings and a reamer that will help you drill the new bolt hole in the vertical webs... want to borrow them? I think that is the most critical part of the process.... fore and aft location can be fixed with shims with a Tiger part number... I have those drawings too, JPG copy attached... Pics are in this directory.... http://home.earthlink.net/~gilalex/Tiger/ ....hope this helps gil A ... waiting for cylinders to arrive at Bill Scott's place...:^) At 07:10 AM 4/5/2007, you wrote: Gil, I have a Tiger in the shop right now with a crack from the attachment bolt hole to the edge of the angle on the RH side. The bonding of the other leg is fine and there is virtually not deformation of the angle. Do you have some photos of your plane and the repair you could email me? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Gil Alexander To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:06 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support Gary, When I did it, I seem to remember it chipped off fairly easily... Of course, use an aluminum scraping edge so the base material isn't gouged. And a final clean up with scotchbrite disk. gil in Tucson ... did that.... At 10:12 PM 4/4/2007, you wrote: This is mostly meant for Bob Stewart only because I think he's done this before. And Cliff too, if he's repaired this one. I've got the braces off. They came off fairly easily with a heat gun. Didn't require a whole lot of heat actually. What I need to know is . . . . . How do I get the rest of the adheasive off the skin of the fuselage? Do I sand it off with an orbital sander? Do I reheat it and scrape it? I tried picking at it a bit to see if it will come off. It's stuck pretty well. ________________________________________________________________________ from AOL at AOL.com. -------- te: 4/4/2007 1:09 PM -------- It has remn their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! [Image Removed] ________________________________________________________________________ from AOL at AOL.com. =0 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:19 PM PST US From: Gil Alexander Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support I'll ask Bill S for round cylinders... The removal is below.... the adhesive was quite brittle.... ------------------------------------ When I did it, I seem to remember it chipped off fairly easily... Of course, use an aluminum scraping edge so the base material isn't gouged. And a final clean up with scotchbrite disk. gil in Tucson ... did that.... At 11:16 AM 4/5/2007, you wrote: > >The one I've got has the vertical braces buckled about twice as much as >yours. So, how did you clean up the residual adheasive? > >I have a customer who got some cylinders done by BS. Two of them always >used a lot of oil. We removed them and had LyCon go over them. >When BS overhauled them, they were honed out-of-round. Lycon recut the >cylinder (it only took less than .002) and installed some new rings. >All is well now after 400 hours. Just a heads up. > >-----Original Message----- >From: gilalex@earthlink.net >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 8:23 AM >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support > > Boy ... the SAIB is old enough I thought they would have all been > found by now...:^) > >No photos of the repair, but the damage is here... > > Check the little bend of the verticals that goes under the top plate... > that seems to be a real weak point... upper left and upper right in the pics. > > I have a couple of drill bushings and a reamer that will help you drill > the new bolt hole in the vertical webs... want to borrow them?=C2 I think > that is the most critical part of the process.... fore and aft location > can be fixed with shims with a Tiger part number... I have those drawings > too, JPG copy attached... > >Pics are in this directory.... > >http://home.earthlink.net/~gilalex/Tiger/ > > ....hope this helps=C2 =C2 =C2 gil A ... waiting for cylinders to arrive at > Bill Scott's place...:^) > >At 07:10 AM 4/5/2007, you wrote: > Gil, I have a Tiger in the shop right now with a crack from the > attachment bolt hole to the edge of the angle on the RH side.=C2 The > bonding of the other leg is fine and there is virtually not deformation > of the angle. >=C2 > Do you have some photos of your plane and the repair you could email me? >=C2 >Cliff > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Gil Alexander >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:06 PM >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support > >Gary, > >When I did it, I seem to remember it chipped off fairly easily... > > Of course, use an aluminum scraping edge so the base material isn't gouged. > >And a final clean up with scotchbrite disk. > >gil in Tucson ... did that.... > >At 10:12 PM 4/4/2007, you wrote: > > This is mostly meant for Bob Stewart only because I think he's done this > before.=C2 And Cliff too, if he's repaired this one. > > I've got the braces off.=C2 They came off fairly easily with a heat gun.=C2 > Didn't require a whole lot of heat actually.=C2 What I need to know is . > . . . . > >How do I get the rest of the adheasive off the skin of the fuselage?=C2 > Do I sand it off with an orbital sander?=C2 Do I reheat it and scrape > it?=C2 I tried picking at it a bit to see if it will come off.=C2 It's > stuck pretty well. > >________________________________________________________________________ >from AOL at AOL.com. > > >-------- > te: 4/4/2007 1:09 PM > > >-------- >It has remn their emails. >Try SPAMfighter for free now! > > > [Image Removed] > > >________________________________________________________________________ >from AOL at AOL.com. >=0 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support From: teamgrumman@aol.com I tried scraping it with several different types of scrapers, even an exacto. I finally used an duel action orbital sander. I never did get any to chip off. It took about two hours to sand down all of the rough edges. That includes all the hand work in the corners. Looks pretty good now. As for drilling and shimming to make the stub spar fit the vertical braces, I plan on clamping the vertical braces in place with the horizontal and stub spar installed before I drill any holes. That way, the braces will be tight against the stub spar. -----Original Message----- From: gilalex@earthlink.net Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:43 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support I'll ask Bill S for round cylinders... The removal is below.... the adhesive was quite brittle.... ------------------------------------ When I did it, I seem to remember it chipped off fairly easily... Of course, use an aluminum scraping edge so the base material isn't gouged. And a final clean up with scotchbrite disk. gil in Tucson ... did that.... At 11:16 AM 4/5/2007, you wrote: The one I've got has the vertical braces buckled about twice as much as yours. So, how did you clean up the residual adheasive? I have a customer who got some cylinders done by BS. Two of them always used a lot of oil. We removed them and had LyCon go over them. When BS overhauled them, they were honed out-of-round. Lycon recut the cylinder (it only took less than .002) and installed some new rings. All is well now after 400 hours. Just a heads up. -----Original Message----- From: gilalex@earthlink.net To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 8:23 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support Boy ... the SAIB is old enough I thought they would have all been found by now...:^) No photos of the repair, but the damage is here... Check the little bend of the verticals that goes under the top plate... that seems to be a real weak point... upper left and upper right in the pics. I have a couple of drill bushings and a reamer that will help you drill the new bolt hole in the vertical webs... want to borrow them? I think that is the most critical part of the process.... fore and aft location can be fixed with shims with a Tiger part number... I have those drawings too, JPG copy attached... Pics are in this directory.... http://home.earthlink.net/~gilalex/Tiger/ ....hope this helps gil A ... waiting for cylinders to arrive at Bill Scott's place...:^) At 07:10 AM 4/5/2007, you wrote: Gil, I have a Tiger in the shop right now with a crack from the attachment bolt hole to the edge of the angle on the RH side. The bonding of the other leg is fine and there is virtually not deformation of the angle. Do you have some photos of your plane and the repair you could email me? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Gil Alexander To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:06 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support Gary, When I did it, I seem to remember it chipped off fairly easily... Of course, use an aluminum scraping edge so the base material isn't gouged. And a final clean up with scotchbrite disk. gil in Tucson ... did that.... At 10:12 PM 4/4/2007, you wrote: This is mostly meant for Bob Stewart only because I think he's done this before. And Cliff too, if he's repaired this one. I've got the braces off. They came off fairly easily with a heat gun. Didn't require a whole lot of heat actually. What I need to know is . . . . . How do I get the rest of the adheasive off the skin of the fuselage? Do I sand it off with an orbital sander? Do I reheat it and scrape it? I tried picking at it a bit to see if it will come off. It's stuck pretty well. ________________________________________________________________________ from AOL at AOL.com. -------- te: 4/4/2007 1:09 PM -------- It has remn their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! [Image Removed] ________________________________________________________________________ from AOL at AOL.com. =0 ========== TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ========== ; - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://forums.matronics.com ========== ________________________________________________________________________ from AOL at AOL.com. =0 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:05 PM PST US From: Gil Alexander Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support At 08:14 PM 4/5/2007, you wrote: > >I tried scraping it with several different types of scrapers, even an >exacto. I finally used an duel action orbital sander. I never did get >any to chip off. It took about two hours to sand down all of the rough >edges. That includes all the hand work in the corners. Looks pretty good now. Hope you didn't take too much of the 0.025 off...:^) - or is 0.032 there? >As for drilling and shimming to make the stub spar fit the vertical >braces, I plan on clamping the vertical braces in place with the >horizontal and stub spar installed before I drill any holes. That way, >the braces will be tight against the stub spar. Yes.. but it's hard to hold the verticals in alignment while the glue dries... at least to the accuracy to not have anything under stress in the final assembly. Once the verticals are bonded and riveted, then it's easy to use C-clamps and get levels on the horizontal for alignment... as well as tip measurements to the fus. centerline to get no sweep forward/sweep back.... My plane had shims on one side - I think the fus. side - already... Do you want the drill guide and reamer for the two big holes? That seemed to be the hardest part to me - I bet most folks would just use a big drill bit and screw up the existing hole in the stub spar...:^( I like all my bolts to be a nice slip fit if possible...:^) gil A >-----Original Message----- >From: gilalex@earthlink.net >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:43 PM >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support > > I'll ask Bill S for round cylinders... > >The removal is below.... the adhesive was quite brittle.... > >------------------------------------ > >When I did it, I seem to remember it chipped off fairly easily... > > =C2 Of course, use an aluminum scraping edge so the base material isn't > gouged. > >And a final clean up with scotchbrite disk. > >gil in Tucson ... did that.... > > >At 11:16 AM 4/5/2007, you wrote: > > The one I've got has the vertical braces buckled about twice as much as > yours.=C2 So, how did you clean up the residual adheasive? > > I have a customer who got some cylinders done by BS.=C2 Two of them > always used a lot of oil.=C2 We removed them and had LyCon go over them. =C2 > When BS overhauled them, they were honed out-of-round.=C2 Lycon recut the > cylinder (it only took less than .002) and installed some new rings.=C2 >All is well now after 400 hours.=C2 Just a heads up. > >-----Original Message----- >From: gilalex@earthlink.net >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 8:23 AM >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support > > =C2 =C2 =C2 Boy ... the SAIB is old enough I thought they would have all been > found by now...:^) > >No photos of the repair, but the damage is here... > > =C2 Check the little bend of the verticals that goes under the top > plate... that seems to be a real weak point... upper left and upper right > in the pics. > > =C2 I have a couple of drill bushings and a reamer that will help you > drill the new bolt hole in the vertical webs... want to borrow > them?=C3=82=C2 I think that is the most critical part of the process.... fore > and aft location can be fixed with shims with a Tiger part number... I > have those drawings too, JPG copy attached... > >Pics are in this directory.... > >http://home.earthlink.net/~gilalex/Tiger/ > > =C2 ....hope this helps=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82=C2 gil A ... waiting for cylinders to > arrive at Bill Scott's place...:^) > >At 07:10 AM 4/5/2007, you wrote: > =C2 Gil, I have a Tiger in the shop right now with a crack from the > attachment bolt hole to the edge of the angle on the RH side.=C3=82=C2 The > bonding of the other leg is fine and there is virtually not deformation > of the angle. >=C3=82 > =C2 Do you have some photos of your plane and the repair you could email me? >=C3=82 >Cliff >=C2 ----- Original Message ----- >From: Gil Alexander >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:06 PM >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support > >Gary, > >When I did it, I seem to remember it chipped off fairly easily... > > =C2 Of course, use an aluminum scraping edge so the base material isn't > gouged. > >And a final clean up with scotchbrite disk. > >gil in Tucson ... did that.... > >At 10:12 PM 4/4/2007, you wrote: > > =C2 This is mostly meant for Bob Stewart only because I think he's done > this before.=C3=82=C2 And Cliff too, if he's repaired this one. > > =C2 I've got the braces off.=C3=82=C2 They came off fairly easily with a heat > gun.=C3=82 > =C2 Didn't require a whole lot of heat actually.=C3=82=C2 What I need to know > is . . . . . > >How do I get the rest of the adheasive off the skin of the fuselage?=C3=82 > =C2 Do I sand it off with an orbital sander?=C3=82=C2 Do I reheat it and scrape > it?=C3=82=C2 I tried picking at it a bit to see if it will come off.=C3 =82=C2 It's > stuck pretty well. >=C2 > >________________________________________________________________________ >from AOL at AOL.com. > > >-------- >=C2 te: 4/4/2007 1:09 PM > > >-------- >It has remn their emails. >Try SPAMfighter for free now! > > >=C2 [Image Removed] > > >________________________________________________________________________ >from AOL at AOL.com. >=0 > > >========== >TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List >========== >;=C2 - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >http://forums.matronics.com >========== > > >________________________________________________________________________ >from AOL at AOL.com. >=0 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support From: teamgrumman@aol.com Thanks for the update Gil. I'd love to borrow the drill guides and reamers. I'm having some special braces made and I'm not sure when I'll have them. Plus, there is a lot of other work I'm doing on the plane. But, yes, if you don't mind, I'd love to borrow the drill and ream. Thanks Gary -----Original Message----- From: gilalex@earthlink.net Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 9:02 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support At 08:14 PM 4/5/2007, you wrote: I tried scraping it with several different types of scrapers, even an exacto. I finally used an duel action orbital sander. I never did get any to chip off. It took about two hours to sand down all of the rough edges. That includes all the hand work in the corners. Looks pretty good now. Hope you didn't take too much of the 0.025 off...:^) - or is 0.032 there? As for drilling and shimming to make the stub spar fit the vertical braces, I plan on clamping the vertical braces in place with the horizontal and stub spar installed before I drill any holes. That way, the braces will be tight against the stub spar. Yes.. but it's hard to hold the verticals in alignment while the glue dries... at least to the accuracy to not have anything under stress in the final assembly. Once the verticals are bonded and riveted, then it's easy to use C-clamps and get levels on the horizontal for alignment... as well as tip measurements to the fus. centerline to get no sweep forward/sweep back.... My plane had shims on one side - I think the fus. side - already... Do you want the drill guide and reamer for the two big holes? That seemed to be the hardest part to me - I bet most folks would just use a big drill bit and screw up the existing hole in the stub spar...:^( I like all my bolts to be a nice slip fit if possible...:^) gil A -----Original Message----- From: gilalex@earthlink.net To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:43 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support I'll ask Bill S for round cylinders... The removal is below.... the adhesive was quite brittle.... ------------------------------------ When I did it, I seem to remember it chipped off fairly easily... Of course, use an aluminum scraping edge so the base material isn't gouged. And a final clean up with scotchbrite disk. gil in Tucson ... did that.... At 11:16 AM 4/5/2007, you wrote: The one I've got has the vertical braces buckled about twice as much as yours. So, how did you clean up the residual adheasive? I have a customer who got some cylinders done by BS. Two of them always used a lot of oil. We removed them and had LyCon go over them. When BS overhauled them, they were honed out-of-round. Lycon recut the cylinder (it only took less than .002) and installed some new rings. All is well now after 400 hours. Just a heads up. -----Original Message----- From: gilalex@earthlink.net To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 8:23 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support Boy ... the SAIB is old enough I thought they would have all been found by now...:^) No photos of the repair, but the damage is here... Check the little bend of the verticals that goes under the top plate... that seems to be a real weak point... upper left and upper right in the pics. I have a couple of drill bushings and a reamer that will help you drill the new bolt hole in the vertical webs... want to borrow them? I think that is the most critical part of the process.... fore and aft location can be fixed with shims with a Tiger part number... I have those drawings too, JPG copy attached... Pics are in this directory.... http://home.earthlink.net/~gilalex/Tiger/ ....hope this helps gil A ... waiting for cylinders to arrive at Bill Scott's place...:^) At 07:10 AM 4/5/2007, you wrote: Gil, I have a Tiger in the shop right now with a crack from the attachment bolt hole to the edge of the angle on the RH side. The bonding of the other leg is fine and there is virtually not deformation of the angle. Do you have some photos of your plane and the repair you could email me? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Gil Alexander To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:06 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support Gary, When I did it, I seem to remember it chipped off fairly easily... Of course, use an aluminum scraping edge so the base material isn't gouged. And a final clean up with scotchbrite disk. gil in Tucson ... did that.... At 10:12 PM 4/4/2007, you wrote: This is mostly meant for Bob Stewart only because I think he's done this before. And Cliff too, if he's repaired this one. I've got the braces off. They came off fairly easily with a heat gun. Didn't require a whole lot of heat actually. What I need to know is . . . . . How do I get the rest of the adheasive off the skin of the fuselage? Do I sand it off with an orbital sander? Do I reheat it and scrape it? I tried picking at it a bit to see if it will come off. It's stuck pretty well. ________________________________________________________________________ from AOL at AOL.com. -------- te: 4/4/2007 1:09 PM -------- It has remn their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! [Image Removed] ________________________________________________________________________ from AOL at AOL.com. =0 ========== TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ========== ; - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://forums.matronics.com ========== ________________________________________________________________________ from AOL at AOL.com. =0 ========== TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ========== ; - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://forums.matronics.com ========== ________________________________________________________________________ from AOL at AOL.com. =0 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:01 PM PST US From: Gil Alexander Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support Gary ....I'll dig 'em out and mail them..... gil A At 11:32 PM 4/5/2007, you wrote: > >Thanks for the update Gil. I'd love to borrow the drill guides and >reamers. I'm having some special braces made and I'm not sure when I'll >have them. Plus, there is a lot of other work I'm doing on the plane. > >But, yes, if you don't mind, I'd love to borrow the drill and ream. >Thanks >Gary > >-----Original Message----- >From: gilalex@earthlink.net >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 9:02 PM >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support > > At 08:14 PM 4/5/2007, you wrote: > > I tried scraping it with several different types of scrapers, even an > exacto.=C2 I finally used an duel action orbital sander.=C2 I never did get > any to chip off.=C2 It took about two hours to sand down all of the rough > edges.=C2 That includes all the hand work in the corners.=C2 Looks pretty > good now. > Hope you didn't take too much of the 0.025 off...:^) - or is 0.032 there? > > > As for drilling and shimming to make the stub spar fit the vertical > braces, I plan on clamping the vertical braces in place with the > horizontal and stub spar installed before I drill any holes.=C2 That way, > the braces will be tight against the stub spar. > Yes.. but it's hard to hold the verticals in alignment while the glue > dries... at least to the accuracy to not have anything under stress in > the final assembly.=C2 > > Once the verticals are bonded and riveted, then it's easy to use > C-clamps and get levels on the horizontal for alignment... as well as tip > measurements to the fus. centerline to get no sweep forward/sweep back.... > >My plane had shims on one side - I think the fus. side - already... > >Do you want the drill guide and reamer for the two big holes?=C2 =C2 > That seemed to be the hardest part to me - I bet most folks would just > use a big drill bit and screw up the existing hole in the stub spar...:^( =C2 >I like all my bolts to be a nice slip fit if possible...:^) > >gil A > > >-----Original Message----- >From: gilalex@earthlink.net >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:43 PM >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support > >=C2 =C2 I'll ask Bill S for round cylinders... > >The removal is below.... the adhesive was quite brittle.... > >------------------------------------ > >When I did it, I seem to remember it chipped off fairly easily... > > =C2 =C3=82 Of course, use an aluminum scraping edge so the base material isn't > gouged. > >And a final clean up with scotchbrite disk. > >gil in Tucson ... did that.... > > >At 11:16 AM 4/5/2007, you wrote: > > =C2 The one I've got has the vertical braces buckled about twice as much > as yours.=C3=82=C2 So, how did you clean up the residual adheasive? > > =C2 I have a customer who got some cylinders done by BS.=C3=82=C2 Two of them > always used a lot of oil.=C3=82=C2 We removed them and had LyCon go over them.=C3=82 > =C2 When BS overhauled them, they were honed out-of-round.=C3=82=C2 Lycon recut > the cylinder (it only took less than .002) and installed some new rings. =C3=82 >All is well now after 400 hours.=C3=82=C2 Just a heads up. > >-----Original Message----- >From: gilalex@earthlink.net >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 8:23 AM >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support > > =C2 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82=C2 Boy ... the SAIB is old enough I thought they would have > all been found by now...:^) > >No photos of the repair, but the damage is here... > > =C2 =C3=82 Check the little bend of the verticals that goes under the top > plate... that seems to be a real weak point... upper left and upper right > in the pics. > > =C2 =C3=82 I have a couple of drill bushings and a reamer that will help you > drill the new bolt hole in the vertical webs... want to borrow > them?=C3=83=82=C3=82=C2 I think that is the most critical part of the process.... > fore and aft location can be fixed with shims with a Tiger part number... > I have those drawings too, JPG copy attached... > >Pics are in this directory.... > >http://home.earthlink.net/~gilalex/Tiger/ > > =C2 =C3=82 ....hope this helps=C3=83=82 =C3=83=82 =C3=83=82=C3=82=C2 gil A ... waiting for cylinders > to to arrive at Bill Scott's place...:^) > >At 07:10 AM 4/5/2007, you wrote: > =C2 =C3=82 Gil, I have a Tiger in the shop right now with a crack from the > attachment bolt hole to the edge of the angle on the RH side.=C3=83=82=C3 =82=C2 The > bonding of the other leg is fine and there is virtually not deformation > of the angle. >=C3=83=82 > =C2 =C3=82 Do you have some photos of your plane and the repair you could > email me? >=C3=83=82 >Cliff >=C3=82 ----- Original Message ----- >From: Gil Alexander >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:06 PM >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: CE-04-34, Horizontal support > >Gary, > >When I did it, I seem to remember it chipped off fairly easily... > > =C2 =C3=82 Of course, use an aluminum scraping edge so the base material isn't > gouged. > >And a final clean up with scotchbrite disk. > >gil in Tucson ... did that.... > >At 10:12 PM 4/4/2007, you wrote: > > =C2 =C3=82 This is mostly meant for Bob Stewart only because I think he's done > this before.=C3=83=82=C3=82=C2 And Cliff too, if he's repaired this one. > =C2 =C3=82 I've got the braces off.=C3=83=82=C3=82=C2 They came off fairly easily with a > heat gun.=C3=83=82 > =C2 =C3=82 Didn't require a whole lot of heat actually.=C3=83=82=C3=82 =C2 What I need to > know is . . . . . > >How do I get the rest of the adheasive off the skin of the fuselage?=C3=83 =82 > =C2 =C3=82 Do I sand it off with an orbital sander?=C3=83=82=C3=82=C2 Do I reheat it and > scrape it?=C3=83=82=C3=82=C2 I tried picking at it a bit to see if it will come > off.=C3=83=82=C3=82=C2 It's stuck pretty well. >=C3=82 >=C2 > >________________________________________________________________________ >from AOL at AOL.com. > > >-------- >=C3=82 te: 4/4/2007 1:09 PM > > >-------- >It has remn their emails. >Try SPAMfighter for free now! > > >=C3=82=C2 [Image Removed] > > >=C2 > >________________________________________________________________________ >from AOL at AOL.com. >=0 > > >========== >TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List >========== >;=C3=82=C2 - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >http://forums.matronics.com >========== > > >________________________________________________________________________ >from AOL at AOL.com. >=0 > > >========== >TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List >========== >;=C2 - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >http://forums.matronics.com >========== > > >________________________________________________________________________ >from AOL at AOL.com. >=0 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.