Today's Message Index:
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1. 07:35 AM - Re: User Fees (Ian Matterface)
2. 06:49 PM - Re: User Fees (teamgrumman@aol.com)
3. 06:51 PM - Re: User Fees (teamgrumman@aol.com)
Message 1
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Have you seen this from Jan Brill an ex AYA Grumman Tiger pilot, N18AP
who is now the Editor of a German Pilots magazine. You have been warned.
http://flash.aopa.org/pilot_media_viewer/media/0704userfees/files/video1.
html
Ian M
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 8:10 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: User Fees
Here is something I sent to AOPA. Just in case it doesn't get printed,
pass it along. It's in response to a letter about User Fees.
Dear Chris Blythe, AOPA 5198042, Ascot, United Kingdom
Your defense of $9/gal gasoline when a barrel of oil costs less than it
did 25 years ago and oil executives, who do little more than shuffle
money around, are paid 10s of millions of dollars more in bonuses than
any of their predecessors ever dreamed of, just amazes me. Defending
multiple aircraft ownership (seriously, 9 co-owners?) as cost-effective
goes beyond anything I can comprehend. Privately owned airfields, as
in the U.K., mean that the owners of those airfields can decide to
charge whatever =98fees=99 they deem necessary in order to
pay this month=99s
mortgage. This only makes the owners, corporations, wealthy at the
expense of excluding anything remotely resembling a middle-class.
From your letter, it sounds like you=99ve grown accustomed to
paying user
fees, $9/gal for gas, and sharing your plane with 8 others. Me thinks
you=99ve been a British =9Csubject=9D a little too
long. Which reminds me of
a quote, =9Call experience hath shown that mankind are more
disposed to
suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by
abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.=9D
The point that you, Europe, and all those who support user fees, are
missing, is that fees are only taxes the rich can afford. The rich can
afford to pay high fees for what they want because their taxes have
been reduced to a very small fraction of their income. For some
reason, it=99s become more acceptable to pay fees than it is to
pay
taxes. The attitude today has become, =9CIf it=99s a fee
and the middle
class or poor cannot afford it, =9COh, well.=9D
I=99ll give you an example. There was a time in the U.S., not
that long
ago, when our National Parks were open to everyone, free of charge. If
someone wanted to visit a National Park, all they had to do is get
there. Everyone could share the wonder. Park Rangers and Park
maintenance were paid for by our taxes. But, politicians found they
could win if they promised, =9CNo more taxes.=9D Now, there
are fees. The
cost, the fees, puts visiting the Parks out of reach for an increasing
larger percentage of the population.
In California, prior to Proposition 13 in 1978, we had a one of the
best educational systems in the United States. Inexpensive too; it
cost $10 a year to go to a community college. We had a modern,
up-to-date infrastructure (road, bridges, waterways). Housing was
affordable. California=99s budget never operated in the red. A
one
percent property tax, adjusted for inflation, paid for most of it.
Prop 13 froze property tax to the value of the house when it was
purchased; no more corrections for inflation or property value
increases. Today, California=99s education system ranks 49th out
of 50.
A year in a Community College has an enrollment fee ($480), a Health
Fee, a Student Center Fee, an Identification Card fee, a parking fee,
and a student body Identification fee. Roads and other infrastructure
are stuck in 80=99s And, guess what, today it costs a minimum of
$50,000
in fees just to break ground for a new house. An average 3 bedroom
2-bath house in 1978 was $70,000. That same house costs over $400,000
today.
Is that what you, and all of the supporters of =98User
fees,=99 really
want? Is not paying taxes more important than closing off all of our
airports and making the cost of recreational flying unaffordable to all
but the wealthy? Who really wins when the government gets out of
maintaining the most affordable, safest, self-supporting aviation
system in the world? Do you, or does anyone, really trust private
corporations to NOT price gouge? Privatizing the aviation system makes
about as much sense as privatizing our highway system. Oh, right, that
could never happen.
The quote above was from Thomas Jefferson. He wrote that in our
Declaration of Independence. He also wrote, =9CThat to secure
these
rights (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness), Governments are
instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of
the governed, =94 That whenever any Form of Government becomes
destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to
abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on
such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them
shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.=9D
Gary L Vogt
Auburn, CA
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
Message 2
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Unfortuantely, this government "of the people" is becoming as Bush put
it, "this would be a lot easier if this were a dictatorship."
-----Original Message-----
From: i.r.m@btinternet.com
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: User Fees
Have you seen this from Jan Brill an ex AYA Grumman Tiger pilot,
N18AP who is now the Editor of a German Pilots magazine. You have been
warned.
http://flash.aopa.org/pilot_media_viewer/media/0704userfees/files/video1.html
Ian M
----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 8:10 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: User Fees
Here is something I sent to AOPA. Just in case it doesn't get printed,
pass it along. It's in response to a letter about User Fees.
Dear Chris Blythe, AOPA 5198042, Ascot, United Kingdom
Your defense of $9/gal gasoline when a barrel of oil costs less than it
did 25 years ago and oil executives, who do little more than shuffle
money around, are paid 10s of millions of dollars more in bonuses than
any of their predecessors ever dreamed of, just amazes me. Defending
multiple aircraft ownership (seriously, 9 co-owners?) as cost-effective
goes beyond anything I can comprehend. Privately owned airfields, as
in the U.K., mean that the owners of those airfields can decide to
charge whatever fees they deem necessary in order to pay this months
mortgage. This only makes the owners, corporations, wealthy at the
expense of excluding anything remotely resembling a middle-class.
>From your letter, it sounds like youve grown accustomed to paying
user
fees, $9/gal for gas, and sharing your plane with 8 others. Me thinks
youve been a British subject a little too long. Which reminds me of
a quote, all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to
suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by
abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
The point that you, Europe, and all those who support user fees, are
missing, is that fees are only taxes the rich can afford. The rich can
afford to pay high fees for what they want because their taxes have
been reduced to a very small fraction of their income. For some
reason, its become more acceptable to pay fees than it is to pay
taxes. The attitude today has become, If its a fee and the middle
class or poor cannot afford it, Oh, well.
Ill give you an example. There was a time in the U.S., not that long
ago, when our National Parks were open to everyone, free of charge. If
someone wanted to visit a National Park, all they had to do is get
there. Everyone could share the wonder. Park Rangers and Park
maintenance were paid for by our taxes. But, politicians found they
could win if they promised, No more taxes. Now, there are fees. The
cost, the fees, puts visiting the Parks out of reach for an increasing
larger percentage of the population.
In California, prior to Proposition 13 in 1978, we had a one of the
best educational systems in the United States. Inexpensive too; it
cost $10 a year to go to a community college. We had a modern,
up-to-date infrastructure (road, bridges, waterways). Housing was
affordable. Californias budget never operated in the red. A one
percent property tax, adjusted for inflation, paid for most of it.
Prop 13 froze property tax to the value of the house when it was
purchased; no more corrections for inflation or property value
increases. Today, Californias education system ranks 49th out of 50.
A year in a Community College has an enrollment fee ($480), a Health
Fee, a Student Center Fee, an Identification Card fee, a parking fee,
and a student body Identification fee. Roads and other infrastructure
are stuck in 80s And, guess what, today it costs a minimum of $50,000
in fees just to break ground for a new house. An average 3 bedroom
2-bath house in 1978 was $70,000. That same house costs over $400,000
today.
Is that what you, and all of the supporters of User fees, really
want? Is not paying taxes more important than closing off all of our
airports and making the cost of recreational flying unaffordable to all
but the wealthy? Who really wins when the government gets out of
maintaining the most affordable, safest, self-supporting aviation
system in the world? Do you, or does anyone, really trust private
corporations to NOT price gouge? Privatizing the aviation system makes
about as much sense as privatizing our highway system. Oh, right, that
could never happen.
The quote above was from Thomas Jefferson. He wrote that in our
Declaration of Independence. He also wrote, That to secure these
rights (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness), Governments are
instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of
the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes
destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to
abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on
such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them
shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Gary L Vogt
Auburn, CA
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at p; Features Subscriptions
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.mp;
; available via
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
Message 3
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Please, forward it to as many people as you think would like to hear it.
-----Original Message-----
From: A1ynk@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: User Fees
I like your piece there Gary. You have my vote. Mind if I forward
it to someone?
Bill Hatton the worthless helicopter mechanic
--------
See what's free at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
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