Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:41 AM - Re: Cowling update (Bruce Smith)
2. 05:12 AM - Re: Cowling update (flyv35b)
3. 10:44 AM - Re: Cowling update (teamgrumman@AOL.COM)
4. 11:24 AM - Re: Cowling update (Steve Roberts)
5. 12:33 PM - Re: Cowling update (flyv35b)
6. 01:04 PM - Re: Cowling update (flyv35b)
7. 02:44 PM - American Star issues (James Courtney)
8. 05:45 PM - Re: American Star issues (James Courtney)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling update |
Some years ago, when you first started this quest for a new cowl, I
asked you if you were going to tackle creating carbon fiber or
composite ailerons and flaps. I recall your answer being a guarded
"maybe" with the caveat that doing flight controls would be a whole
can of worms (my words for your thoughts) and that in the long run,
the cost probably wouldn't justify the effort. I truly believe it now.
Bruce
On Dec 14, 2007, at 1:32 AM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
> Their argument is: Since I didn't know what the pressure was in the
> cowling lower deck (stock cowling) and since I changed the shape of
> the cooling air inlet and the shape of the cooling air exhaust
> ramps, I must have changed the pressure inside the cowling and
> therefore changed the carb heat. PLUS, since I use a ROUND inlet
> into the carburetor (on the baffle behind #3) how can they be sure
> the air to the carburetor is the same (cooler or warmer).
>
> Draw your own conclusions. For what it's worth, it was the stock
> cowling that didn't pass the test. The FAA wouldn't accept being
> "as good or better than the stock configuration" for the testing. I
> have to meet the current requirements of the FARs.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Smith <res02p3h@comcast.net>
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 2:18 pm
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
>
> Gary,
>
> OK, I'm not the smartest person in the world, but wasn't the carb
> heat source inside the cowl for the original cowling? Why would your
> new cowl, which has better airflow through it, cause a difference
> that would make the FAA go bonkers?
>
> It seems as though every obstacle you overcome, they throw up a new
> one. Government in action. And people want to turn control of their
> healthcare over to this government.....
>
> Bruce Smith
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2007, at 3:08 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
>
>> As I sit here and get ready to update, I wonder how many folks on
>> the GG don't know anything at all aboout the cowling.
>>
>> The cowling is final back from the paint shop. He does good work;
>> he's just slower than molasses. His specialty is custom cars and
>> hot rods so he's always backed up on those.
>>
>> Regarding the carb heat test: I may have mentioned on here that
>> the stock set-up with a PowerFlow didn't pass the carb heat test.
>> The way the test is run, if it's hot outside, it's damn hard to
>> pass the test. I missed it by 4 degrees. I'm hoping for 30 degree
>> air. Then I only have to do one test. You see, even though I
>> didn't change anything in the path, since the carb heat source is
>> 'inside' the cowling, the FAA sees it as affecting carb heat. I
>> need to get a 90 degree temperature rise out of it. On the stock
>> cowling, I missed it by 4 degrees. By-the-way, I did find a couple
>> of cold air leaks. Fixed those.
>>
>> I'm going to install the first production cowling today. I need to
>> create the installation procedure of the cam locks as I go. That
>> should be fun. Cross your fingers that I don't have a Grumman fly
>> in on an emergency.
>>
>> Also, I've been fixing fuel leaks in a 2-seater. I hate those
>> things.
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>
> ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> or?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling update |
The factory should have provided a tapped hole or sealed bolt through the p
lug so you could use a hammer puller to remove the plug!
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
The =22O=22 rings on both inboard spar plugs were leaking. We had to remove
the filler side to get one of them out. Used an 8 foot 2x4 to push it out.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Roberts <aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 9:11 pm
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
om>
I thought it was the four place that was plagued with fuel leaks not the
two place. What kind of fuel leak problems occur with the two place=3F First
I've heard about this...
We shall not cease from exploration.
And at the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive were we started
And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N641HY @ ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:08:26 -0500
As I sit here and get ready to update, I wonder how many folks on the GG
don't know anything at all aboout the cowling.
The cowling is final back from the paint shop. He does good work; he's j
ust slower than molasses. His specialty is custom cars and hot rods so he'
s always backed up on those.
Regarding the carb heat test: I may have mentioned on here that the stoc
k set-up with a PowerFlow didn't pass the carb heat test. The way the test
is run, if it's hot outside, it's damn hard to pass the test. I missed it
by 4 degrees. I'm hoping for 30 degree air. Then I only have to do one t
est. You see, even though I didn't change anything in the path, since the
carb heat source is 'inside' the cowling, the FAA sees it as affecting carb
heat. I need to get a 90 degree temperature rise out of it. On the stock
cowling, I missed it by 4 degrees. By-the-way, I did find a couple of col
d air leaks. Fixed those.
I'm going to install the first production cowling today. I need to creat
e the installation procedure of the cam locks as I go. That should be fun.
Cross your fingers that I don't have a Grumman fly in on an emergency.
Also, I've been fixing fuel leaks in a 2-seater. I hate those things.
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
aol.com
===========
blank=22>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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===========
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07 9:15 AM
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling update |
The factory should have put in access covers on all 2-seaters so you could t
ake the damn thing apart.
-----Original Message-----
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
Sent: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 5:11 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
The factory should have provided a tapped hole or
sealed bolt through the plug so you could use a hammer puller to remove the
plug!
=C2-
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From:
teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:22
PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling
update
The "O" rings on both inboard spar plugs were leaking. =C2-We
had to remove the filler side to get one of them out. =C2-Used an 8 foot
2x4
to push it out. =C2-
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve
Roberts <aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
Sent:
Thu, 13 Dec 2007 9:11 pm
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling
update
-->
TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
=C2-
=C2-
I
thought it was the four place that was plagued with fuel leaks not the two
place. What kind of fuel leak problems occur with the two place? First I'v
e
heard about this...=C2-
=C2-
We shall not cease from
exploration.=C2-
And at the end of all our exploring=C2-
Will be to
arrive were we started=C2-
And know the place for the first time - T. S.
Eliot=C2-
=C2-
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N641HY @
ILG=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
----Original Message
Follows----=C2-
From: teamgrumman@aol.com=C2-
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com=C2-
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com=C2-
Subject:
TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update=C2-
-0500=C2-
=C2-
As I sit here and get ready to update, I wonder how
many folks on the GG don't know anything at all aboout the
cowling.=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
The cowling is final back from the paint
shop. =C2-He does good work; he's just slower than molasses. =C2-His
specialty is custom cars and hot rods so he's always backed up on those.
=C2-=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
Regarding the carb heat test: =C2-I may
have mentioned on here that the stock set-up with a PowerFlow didn't pass
the
carb heat test. =C2-The way the test is run, if it's hot outside, it's d
amn
hard to pass the test. =C2-I missed it by 4 degrees. =C2-I'm hoping fo
r 30
degree air. =C2-Then I only have to do one test. =C2-You see, even tho
ugh
I didn't change anything in the path, since the carb heat source is 'insid
e'
the cowling, the FAA sees it as affecting carb heat. =C2-I need to get a
90
degree temperature rise out of it. =C2-On the stock cowling, I missed it
by
4 degrees. =C2-By-the-way, I did find a couple of cold air leaks.
=C2-Fixed those. =C2-=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
I'm going to install
the first production cowling today. =C2-I need to create the installatio
n
procedure of the cam locks as I go. =C2-That should be fun. =C2-Cross
your
fingers that I don't have a Grumman fly in on an emergency.
=C2-=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
Also, I've been fixing fuel leaks in a
2-seater. =C2-I hate those
things.=C2-=C2-
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________=C2
-
aol.com=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
============C2-
blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=C2-
============C2-
t"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List=C2
-
============C2-
p://forums.matronics.com=C2-
============C2-
=C2-
ate:
12/13/2007 9:15 AM
e in their emails.
Try SPAMfighter for free now!
________________________________________________________________________
aol.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling update |
Thanks guys. Still doesn't sound as bad as what a Cheetah owner freind of
mine is going through right now with tank repairs...
We shall not cease from exploration.
And at the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive were we started
And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N641HY @ ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
The factory should have provided a tapped hole or sealed bolt through the
plug so you could use a hammer puller to remove the plug!
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
The "O" rings on both inboard spar plugs were leaking. We had to remove
the filler side to get one of them out. Used an 8 foot 2x4 to push it out.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Roberts <aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 9:11 pm
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
<aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
I thought it was the four place that was plagued with fuel leaks not the
two place. What kind of fuel leak problems occur with the two place? First
I've heard about this...
We shall not cease from exploration.
And at the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive were we started
And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N641HY @ ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:08:26 -0500
As I sit here and get ready to update, I wonder how many folks on the GG
don't know anything at all aboout the cowling.
The cowling is final back from the paint shop. He does good work; he's
just slower than molasses. His specialty is custom cars and hot rods so
he's always backed up on those.
Regarding the carb heat test: I may have mentioned on here that the
stock set-up with a PowerFlow didn't pass the carb heat test. The way the
test is run, if it's hot outside, it's damn hard to pass the test. I missed
it by 4 degrees. I'm hoping for 30 degree air. Then I only have to do one
test. You see, even though I didn't change anything in the path, since the
carb heat source is 'inside' the cowling, the FAA sees it as affecting carb
heat. I need to get a 90 degree temperature rise out of it. On the stock
cowling, I missed it by 4 degrees. By-the-way, I did find a couple of cold
air leaks. Fixed those.
I'm going to install the first production cowling today. I need to
create the installation procedure of the cam locks as I go. That should be
fun. Cross your fingers that I don't have a Grumman fly in on an emergency.
Also, I've been fixing fuel leaks in a 2-seater. I hate those things.
________________________________________________________________________
aol.com
==========
blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
t" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
==========
p://forums.matronics.com
==========
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
07 9:15 AM
--
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling update |
Absolutely! The center console plastic on the 2 seater is a PITA. I've th
reatened to cut it in two pieces near the spar, rivet in a doubler and atta
ch the two pieces with screws. Would make taking it out much much easier.
Another example that engineers should be made to work on the products they
design and you might see some improvements in serviceability.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
The factory should have put in access covers on all 2-seaters so you coul
d take the damn thing apart.
-----Original Message-----
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 5:11 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
The factory should have provided a tapped hole or sealed bolt through the
plug so you could use a hammer puller to remove the plug!
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
The =22O=22 rings on both inboard spar plugs were leaking. We had to remov
e the filler side to get one of them out. Used an 8 foot 2x4 to push it ou
t.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Roberts <aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 9:11 pm
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
.com>
I thought it was the four place that was plagued with fuel leaks not th
e two place. What kind of fuel leak problems occur with the two place=3F Firs
t I've heard about this...
We shall not cease from exploration.
And at the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive were we started
And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N641HY @ ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:08:26 -0500
As I sit here and get ready to update, I wonder how many folks on the G
G don't know anything at all aboout the cowling.
The cowling is final back from the paint shop. He does good work; he's
just slower than molasses. His specialty is custom cars and hot rods so h
e's always backed up on those.
Regarding the carb heat test: I may have mentioned on here that the st
ock set-up with a PowerFlow didn't pass the carb heat test. The way the te
st is run, if it's hot outside, it's damn hard to pass the test. I missed
it by 4 degrees. I'm hoping for 30 degree air. Then I only have to do one
test. You see, even though I didn't change anything in the path, since th
e carb heat source is 'inside' the cowling, the FAA sees it as affecting ca
rb heat. I need to get a 90 degree temperature rise out of it. On the sto
ck cowling, I missed it by 4 degrees. By-the-way, I did find a couple of c
old air leaks. Fixed those.
I'm going to install the first production cowling today. I need to cre
ate the installation procedure of the cam locks as I go. That should be fu
n. Cross your fingers that I don't have a Grumman fly in on an emergency.
Also, I've been fixing fuel leaks in a 2-seater. I hate those things.
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
=5F
aol.com
===========
blank=22>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
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===========
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ate: 12/13/2007 9:15 AM
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=5F-===========================================================
=5F-
=5F-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
=5F-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
=5F-
=5F-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
=5F-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
=5F-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!
=5F-
=5F-= List Contribution Web Site:
=5F-
=5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=5F-
=5F-= Thank you for your generous support!
=5F-
=5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
=5F-
=5F-===========================================================
=5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum -
=5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
=5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
=5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
=5F-= Photoshare, and much much more:
=5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List
=5F-===========================================================
=5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
=5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
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07 11:29 AM
--
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling update |
I think you were talking about wing access covers, but I had to make a
comment about the interior plastic.
----- Original Message -----
From: flyv35b
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
Absolutely! The center console plastic on the 2 seater is a PITA.
I've threatened to cut it in two pieces near the spar, rivet in a
doubler and attach the two pieces with screws. Would make taking it out
much much easier. Another example that engineers should be made to work
on the products they design and you might see some improvements in
serviceability.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
The factory should have put in access covers on all 2-seaters so you
could take the damn thing apart.
-----Original Message-----
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 5:11 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
The factory should have provided a tapped hole or sealed bolt
through the plug so you could use a hammer puller to remove the plug!
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
The "O" rings on both inboard spar plugs were leaking. We had to
remove the filler side to get one of them out. Used an 8 foot 2x4 to
push it out.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Roberts <aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 9:11 pm
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
<aa1bflyboy@msn.com>
I thought it was the four place that was plagued with fuel leaks
not the two place. What kind of fuel leak problems occur with the two
place? First I've heard about this...
We shall not cease from exploration.
And at the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive were we started
And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N641HY @ ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:08:26 -0500
As I sit here and get ready to update, I wonder how many folks on
the GG don't know anything at all aboout the cowling.
The cowling is final back from the paint shop. He does good work;
he's just slower than molasses. His specialty is custom cars and hot
rods so he's always backed up on those.
Regarding the carb heat test: I may have mentioned on here that
the stock set-up with a PowerFlow didn't pass the carb heat test. The
way the test is run, if it's hot outside, it's damn hard to pass the
test. I missed it by 4 degrees. I'm hoping for 30 degree air. Then I
only have to do one test. You see, even though I didn't change anything
in the path, since the carb heat source is 'inside' the cowling, the FAA
sees it as affecting carb heat. I need to get a 90 degree temperature
rise out of it. On the stock cowling, I missed it by 4 degrees.
By-the-way, I did find a couple of cold air leaks. Fixed those.
I'm going to install the first production cowling today. I need
to create the installation procedure of the cam locks as I go. That
should be fun. Cross your fingers that I don't have a Grumman fly in on
an emergency.
Also, I've been fixing fuel leaks in a 2-seater. I hate those
things.
________________________________________________________________________
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ate: 12/13/2007 9:15 AM
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ate: 12/14/2007 11:29 AM
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12/14/2007 11:29 AM
Message 7
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| Subject: | American Star issues |
Cleaning up the office.
I have all American Star issues from Nov/Dec 2002 through Jan/Feb 2007. All
are in good shape and free to the first person who wants them.
Happy holidays to everyone.
Jamey
11:29 AM
Message 8
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| Subject: | American Star issues |
These have a new home, thanks!
Jamey
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
Courtney
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 2:37 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: American Star issues
Cleaning up the office=85
I have all American Star issues from Nov/Dec 2002 through Jan/Feb 2007.
All
are in good shape and free to the first person who wants them.
Happy holidays to everyone.
Jamey
12/14/2007 11:29 AM
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12/14/2007
11:29 AM
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11:29 AM
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