Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:04 AM - Re: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now (SkyMachines USA)
2. 06:56 AM - Re: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now ()
3. 01:19 PM - Re: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now (flyv35b)
4. 02:26 PM - Re: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now (SkyMachines)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now |
Well, I'm in the market for a Tiger, but Vref and NAAA say this one is
worth $56,000...that's a long way from the $75,000 asking price.
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
here they are
-----Original Message-----
From: SkyMachines <marc@skymachines.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:01 pm
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
Please send photos: marc@marccoan.com or marc@skymachines.com
Thanks,
Marc Coan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:22 PM
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
For Sale: 1978 Grumman Tiger AA5B., N28911, 2875 TT, 1399 TTSMO, 207
TSTOH.
Sensenich prop dynamically balanced. Lycoming 0-360-A4K. 180 HP.
207 hrs on four new Lycoming cylinders =93 ported and polished
by LyCon. Excellent compression. This Tiger purrs! It is a proven
winner! Complete logs, all ADs. Maintained by Gary Vogt of AuCountry
in Auburn, CA. Two owners. Hangered for the past 18 years by present
owner. IFR certificated. Original paint and interior =93 all in
good condition. Panel mount Garmin GPS 150XL -- data base current. JPI
Engine Analyzer with Fuel Flow. King NAV/COM Radios: KX 155 TSO and KX
170B. Audio panel w/ marker beacons. Electric flaps, electric trim tab,
transponder/encoder, clock/timer, wheel pants. Annual due in May 2008.
Maintenance and parts manuals. Canvas cover. Asking $75,000 OBO.
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now |
You got to be kidding, for $56k I'd buy it on speculation...
that would be way below actual market for a Gary Vogt maintained plane with newly
broke in Lycon port & flowed cylinders
I'd say actual sales are around the 69500 bottom dollar mark for this plane
---- SkyMachines USA <marc@skymachines.com> wrote:
Well, I'm in the market for a Tiger, but Vref and NAAA say this one is worth $56,000...that's
a long way from the $75,000 asking price.
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
here they are
-----Original Message-----
From: SkyMachines <marc@skymachines.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:01 pm
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
Please send photos: marc@marccoan.com or marc@skymachines.com
Thanks,
Marc Coan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:22 PM
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
For Sale: 1978 Grumman Tiger AA5B., N28911, 2875 TT, 1399 TTSMO, 207 TSTOH.
Sensenich prop dynamically balanced. Lycoming 0-360-A4K. 180 HP.
207 hrs on four new Lycoming cylinders ported and polished by LyCon. Excellent
compression. This Tiger purrs! It is a proven winner! Complete logs,
all ADs. Maintained by Gary Vogt of AuCountry in Auburn, CA. Two owners. Hangered
for the past 18 years by present owner. IFR certificated. Original paint
and interior all in good condition. Panel mount Garmin GPS 150XL -- data
base current. JPI Engine Analyzer with Fuel Flow. King NAV/COM Radios: KX 155
TSO and KX 170B. Audio panel w/ marker beacons. Electric flaps, electric trim
tab, transponder/encoder, clock/timer, wheel pants. Annual due in May 2008.
Maintenance and parts manuals. Canvas cover. Asking $75,000 OBO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now |
This plane has about 1400 hr SMOH even though it has a recent TOH with new
cylinders. None of the appraisal services will give you a nickel for a TOH,
and the time SMOH is a big hit on this plane. Also, it has old original
paint and interior and old avionics, so you have to evaluate all of these
things. It may be worth more than $56K, but it certainly isn't worth $75K.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <923te@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
>
> You got to be kidding, for $56k I'd buy it on speculation...
> that would be way below actual market for a Gary Vogt maintained plane
> with newly broke in Lycon port & flowed cylinders
>
> I'd say actual sales are around the 69500 bottom dollar mark for this
> plane
>
> ---- SkyMachines USA <marc@skymachines.com> wrote:
> Well, I'm in the market for a Tiger, but Vref and NAAA say this one is
> worth $56,000...that's a long way from the $75,000 asking price.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: teamgrumman@aol.com
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:57 PM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
>
>
> here they are
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SkyMachines <marc@skymachines.com>
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:01 pm
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
>
>
> Please send photos: marc@marccoan.com or marc@skymachines.com
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marc Coan
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> teamgrumman@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:22 PM
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
>
>
> For Sale: 1978 Grumman Tiger AA5B., N28911, 2875 TT, 1399 TTSMO, 207
> TSTOH.
> Sensenich prop dynamically balanced. Lycoming 0-360-A4K. 180 HP.
> 207 hrs on four new Lycoming cylinders ported and polished by LyCon.
> Excellent compression. This Tiger purrs! It is a proven winner!
> Complete logs, all ADs. Maintained by Gary Vogt of AuCountry in Auburn,
> CA. Two owners. Hangered for the past 18 years by present owner. IFR
> certificated. Original paint and interior all in good condition. Panel
> mount Garmin GPS 150XL -- data base current. JPI Engine Analyzer with
> Fuel Flow. King NAV/COM Radios: KX 155 TSO and KX 170B. Audio panel w/
> marker beacons. Electric flaps, electric trim tab, transponder/encoder,
> clock/timer, wheel pants. Annual due in May 2008. Maintenance and parts
> manuals. Canvas cover. Asking $75,000 OBO.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
> or?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> --
> 11:55 AM
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now |
Cliff is correct...a top overhaul is considered maintenance and doesn't add
value to a plane. Just as no other repairs add value, and STC's add 1/2 of
their uninstalled value. In the eyes of a lender, it is a GIVEN that the
plane is airworthy, has had good maintenance by a reputable shop (Gary or
Cliff), and that the cylinders have 80% of new compression. Any of those
factors which are not true detracts from the value, but the fact that they
are true does not add to value.
These are rules practiced by aircraft loan officers and appraisers for 50+
years. The problem with over-valued aircraft is that the deal falls apart
when the loan officer looks up the book value: Most lenders will finance
80-90% of the book value; anything over that, and the buyer has to put in
that much more cash. Most buyers refuse.
Not trying to offend this owner, and just using his airplane as an example,
but, I'm looking, and I see an airplane that needs paint and interior.
That's $15,000 I will have to incur because the seller never did. Any buyer
is going to want to be compensated for at least some of that.
The asking price might have been closer to its real value in mid-2003 or
2004, but Tigers have declined plenty since. Now, there are better deals out
there that don't need P&I. As I have written elsewhere, Grumman or no, the
few buyers out there (in a recessionary economy with $5 fuel) who are
looking for 30-year-old light airplanes are seeking "creampuffs", meaning
those which have low-time, an IFR GPS, 2-axis autopilot, and less than
10-year-old P&I; the others just sit there. Hardly anyone is looking to buy
a project unless they hold an A&P license and like projects.
It's okay to list it at $75,000 and see what happens. But, in this market,
you need to be spending $300/mo. to advertise it everywhere. And, if the
phone doesn't ring, you need to drop it by $5,000/mo. until it sells.
I'm looking for a personal Tiger, but I also do this for a living, so I know
what I'm talking about.
MC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of flyv35b
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 2:16 PM
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
>
> --> <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
>
> This plane has about 1400 hr SMOH even though it has a recent
> TOH with new cylinders. None of the appraisal services will
> give you a nickel for a TOH, and the time SMOH is a big hit
> on this plane. Also, it has old original paint and interior
> and old avionics, so you have to evaluate all of these
> things. It may be worth more than $56K, but it certainly
> isn't worth $75K.
>
> Cliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <923te@cox.net>
> To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 6:53 AM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
>
>
> >
> > You got to be kidding, for $56k I'd buy it on speculation...
> > that would be way below actual market for a Gary Vogt
> maintained plane
> > with newly broke in Lycon port & flowed cylinders
> >
> > I'd say actual sales are around the 69500 bottom dollar
> mark for this
> > plane
> >
> > ---- SkyMachines USA <marc@skymachines.com> wrote:
> > Well, I'm in the market for a Tiger, but Vref and NAAA say
> this one is
> > worth $56,000...that's a long way from the $75,000 asking price.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: teamgrumman@aol.com
> > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:57 PM
> > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
> >
> >
> > here they are
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: SkyMachines <marc@skymachines.com>
> > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:01 pm
> > Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
> >
> >
> > Please send photos: marc@marccoan.com or marc@skymachines.com
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Marc Coan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
> > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > teamgrumman@aol.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:22 PM
> > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now
> >
> >
> > For Sale: 1978 Grumman Tiger AA5B., N28911, 2875 TT,
> 1399 TTSMO, 207
> > TSTOH.
> > Sensenich prop dynamically balanced. Lycoming 0-360-A4K. 180 HP.
> > 207 hrs on four new Lycoming cylinders - ported and
> polished by LyCon.
> > Excellent compression. This Tiger purrs! It is a proven winner!
> > Complete logs, all ADs. Maintained by Gary Vogt of
> AuCountry in Auburn,
> > CA. Two owners. Hangered for the past 18 years by present
> owner. IFR
> > certificated. Original paint and interior - all in good
> condition. Panel
> > mount Garmin GPS 150XL -- data base current. JPI Engine
> Analyzer with
> > Fuel Flow. King NAV/COM Radios: KX 155 TSO and KX 170B.
> Audio panel w/
> > marker beacons. Electric flaps, electric trim tab,
> transponder/encoder,
> > clock/timer, wheel pants. Annual due in May 2008.
> Maintenance and parts
> > manuals. Canvas cover. Asking $75,000 OBO.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
> >
> >
> >
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matron
> ics.com/c
> >
> >
> or?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGr
> umman-List
> > p://forums.matronics.com
> > ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 11:55 AM
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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