---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/25/08: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:04 AM - Re: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now (SkyMachines USA) 2. 06:56 AM - Re: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now () 3. 01:19 PM - Re: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now (flyv35b) 4. 02:26 PM - Re: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now (SkyMachines) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:38 AM PST US From: "SkyMachines USA" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now Well, I'm in the market for a Tiger, but Vref and NAAA say this one is worth $56,000...that's a long way from the $75,000 asking price. ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:57 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now here they are -----Original Message----- From: SkyMachines To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:01 pm Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now Please send photos: marc@marccoan.com or marc@skymachines.com Thanks, Marc Coan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:22 PM To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now For Sale: 1978 Grumman Tiger AA5B., N28911, 2875 TT, 1399 TTSMO, 207 TSTOH. Sensenich prop dynamically balanced. Lycoming 0-360-A4K. 180 HP. 207 hrs on four new Lycoming cylinders =93 ported and polished by LyCon. Excellent compression. This Tiger purrs! It is a proven winner! Complete logs, all ADs. Maintained by Gary Vogt of AuCountry in Auburn, CA. Two owners. Hangered for the past 18 years by present owner. IFR certificated. Original paint and interior =93 all in good condition. Panel mount Garmin GPS 150XL -- data base current. JPI Engine Analyzer with Fuel Flow. King NAV/COM Radios: KX 155 TSO and KX 170B. Audio panel w/ marker beacons. Electric flaps, electric trim tab, transponder/encoder, clock/timer, wheel pants. Annual due in May 2008. Maintenance and parts manuals. Canvas cover. Asking $75,000 OBO. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c or?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List p://forums.matronics.com ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:38 AM PST US From: <923te@cox.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now You got to be kidding, for $56k I'd buy it on speculation... that would be way below actual market for a Gary Vogt maintained plane with newly broke in Lycon port & flowed cylinders I'd say actual sales are around the 69500 bottom dollar mark for this plane ---- SkyMachines USA wrote: Well, I'm in the market for a Tiger, but Vref and NAAA say this one is worth $56,000...that's a long way from the $75,000 asking price. ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:57 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now here they are -----Original Message----- From: SkyMachines To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:01 pm Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now Please send photos: marc@marccoan.com or marc@skymachines.com Thanks, Marc Coan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:22 PM To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now For Sale: 1978 Grumman Tiger AA5B., N28911, 2875 TT, 1399 TTSMO, 207 TSTOH. Sensenich prop dynamically balanced. Lycoming 0-360-A4K. 180 HP. 207 hrs on four new Lycoming cylinders ported and polished by LyCon. Excellent compression. This Tiger purrs! It is a proven winner! Complete logs, all ADs. Maintained by Gary Vogt of AuCountry in Auburn, CA. Two owners. Hangered for the past 18 years by present owner. IFR certificated. Original paint and interior all in good condition. Panel mount Garmin GPS 150XL -- data base current. JPI Engine Analyzer with Fuel Flow. King NAV/COM Radios: KX 155 TSO and KX 170B. Audio panel w/ marker beacons. Electric flaps, electric trim tab, transponder/encoder, clock/timer, wheel pants. Annual due in May 2008. Maintenance and parts manuals. Canvas cover. Asking $75,000 OBO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c or?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List p://forums.matronics.com ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:14 PM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now This plane has about 1400 hr SMOH even though it has a recent TOH with new cylinders. None of the appraisal services will give you a nickel for a TOH, and the time SMOH is a big hit on this plane. Also, it has old original paint and interior and old avionics, so you have to evaluate all of these things. It may be worth more than $56K, but it certainly isn't worth $75K. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: <923te@cox.net> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 6:53 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now > > You got to be kidding, for $56k I'd buy it on speculation... > that would be way below actual market for a Gary Vogt maintained plane > with newly broke in Lycon port & flowed cylinders > > I'd say actual sales are around the 69500 bottom dollar mark for this > plane > > ---- SkyMachines USA wrote: > Well, I'm in the market for a Tiger, but Vref and NAAA say this one is > worth $56,000...that's a long way from the $75,000 asking price. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: teamgrumman@aol.com > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:57 PM > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now > > > here they are > > > -----Original Message----- > From: SkyMachines > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:01 pm > Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now > > > Please send photos: marc@marccoan.com or marc@skymachines.com > > Thanks, > > Marc Coan > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > teamgrumman@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:22 PM > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now > > > For Sale: 1978 Grumman Tiger AA5B., N28911, 2875 TT, 1399 TTSMO, 207 > TSTOH. > Sensenich prop dynamically balanced. Lycoming 0-360-A4K. 180 HP. > 207 hrs on four new Lycoming cylinders ported and polished by LyCon. > Excellent compression. This Tiger purrs! It is a proven winner! > Complete logs, all ADs. Maintained by Gary Vogt of AuCountry in Auburn, > CA. Two owners. Hangered for the past 18 years by present owner. IFR > certificated. Original paint and interior all in good condition. Panel > mount Garmin GPS 150XL -- data base current. JPI Engine Analyzer with > Fuel Flow. King NAV/COM Radios: KX 155 TSO and KX 170B. Audio panel w/ > marker beacons. Electric flaps, electric trim tab, transponder/encoder, > clock/timer, wheel pants. Annual due in May 2008. Maintenance and parts > manuals. Canvas cover. Asking $75,000 OBO. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > or?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > p://forums.matronics.com > ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > -- > 11:55 AM > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:26:21 PM PST US From: "SkyMachines" Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now Cliff is correct...a top overhaul is considered maintenance and doesn't add value to a plane. Just as no other repairs add value, and STC's add 1/2 of their uninstalled value. In the eyes of a lender, it is a GIVEN that the plane is airworthy, has had good maintenance by a reputable shop (Gary or Cliff), and that the cylinders have 80% of new compression. Any of those factors which are not true detracts from the value, but the fact that they are true does not add to value. These are rules practiced by aircraft loan officers and appraisers for 50+ years. The problem with over-valued aircraft is that the deal falls apart when the loan officer looks up the book value: Most lenders will finance 80-90% of the book value; anything over that, and the buyer has to put in that much more cash. Most buyers refuse. Not trying to offend this owner, and just using his airplane as an example, but, I'm looking, and I see an airplane that needs paint and interior. That's $15,000 I will have to incur because the seller never did. Any buyer is going to want to be compensated for at least some of that. The asking price might have been closer to its real value in mid-2003 or 2004, but Tigers have declined plenty since. Now, there are better deals out there that don't need P&I. As I have written elsewhere, Grumman or no, the few buyers out there (in a recessionary economy with $5 fuel) who are looking for 30-year-old light airplanes are seeking "creampuffs", meaning those which have low-time, an IFR GPS, 2-axis autopilot, and less than 10-year-old P&I; the others just sit there. Hardly anyone is looking to buy a project unless they hold an A&P license and like projects. It's okay to list it at $75,000 and see what happens. But, in this market, you need to be spending $300/mo. to advertise it everywhere. And, if the phone doesn't ring, you need to drop it by $5,000/mo. until it sells. I'm looking for a personal Tiger, but I also do this for a living, so I know what I'm talking about. MC > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of flyv35b > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 2:16 PM > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now > > --> > > This plane has about 1400 hr SMOH even though it has a recent > TOH with new cylinders. None of the appraisal services will > give you a nickel for a TOH, and the time SMOH is a big hit > on this plane. Also, it has old original paint and interior > and old avionics, so you have to evaluate all of these > things. It may be worth more than $56K, but it certainly > isn't worth $75K. > > Cliff > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <923te@cox.net> > To: > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 6:53 AM > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now > > > > > > You got to be kidding, for $56k I'd buy it on speculation... > > that would be way below actual market for a Gary Vogt > maintained plane > > with newly broke in Lycon port & flowed cylinders > > > > I'd say actual sales are around the 69500 bottom dollar > mark for this > > plane > > > > ---- SkyMachines USA wrote: > > Well, I'm in the market for a Tiger, but Vref and NAAA say > this one is > > worth $56,000...that's a long way from the $75,000 asking price. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: teamgrumman@aol.com > > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:57 PM > > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now > > > > > > here they are > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SkyMachines > > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:01 pm > > Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now > > > > > > Please send photos: marc@marccoan.com or marc@skymachines.com > > > > Thanks, > > > > Marc Coan > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- > > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > > teamgrumman@aol.com > > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:22 PM > > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 78 Tiger for sale, I have pics now > > > > > > For Sale: 1978 Grumman Tiger AA5B., N28911, 2875 TT, > 1399 TTSMO, 207 > > TSTOH. > > Sensenich prop dynamically balanced. Lycoming 0-360-A4K. 180 HP. > > 207 hrs on four new Lycoming cylinders - ported and > polished by LyCon. > > Excellent compression. This Tiger purrs! It is a proven winner! > > Complete logs, all ADs. Maintained by Gary Vogt of > AuCountry in Auburn, > > CA. Two owners. Hangered for the past 18 years by present > owner. IFR > > certificated. Original paint and interior - all in good > condition. Panel > > mount Garmin GPS 150XL -- data base current. JPI Engine > Analyzer with > > Fuel Flow. King NAV/COM Radios: KX 155 TSO and KX 170B. > Audio panel w/ > > marker beacons. Electric flaps, electric trim tab, > transponder/encoder, > > clock/timer, wheel pants. Annual due in May 2008. > Maintenance and parts > > manuals. Canvas cover. Asking $75,000 OBO. > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">htt p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matron > ics.com/c > > > > > or?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGr > umman-List > > p://forums.matronics.com > > ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > 11:55 AM > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.