Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:48 PM - JPI vs EI Probes (Cole)
2. 08:08 PM - Re: JPI vs EI Probes (SkyMachines)
3. 10:16 PM - Re: Any interesting annuals lately? (teamgrumman@aol.com)
4. 10:27 PM - Re: Any interesting annuals lately? (Michael Karatsonyi)
5. 10:32 PM - Re: JPI vs EI Probes (teamgrumman@aol.com)
6. 10:33 PM - Re: JPI vs EI Probes (teamgrumman@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | JPI vs EI Probes |
Gary,
I read with interest your article in the latest Star about the
differences in the JPI and EI CHT probes. I have a JPI EDM 700, so can
I now happily drill through the sky with readings of 430-450 deg F in
cruise when this seemingly equates to a Lycoming equivalent of below
400? That would make my life a lot faster and greener (I could fly at
higher airspeed and leaner)!
Also, I wonder how to explain that #2 reads in line with the others
yet it is a ring-around-the-spark-plug probe. Perhaps this is one of
the hottest places on the cylinder, or like the other probes, is
reading the temp of the aluminum, not the air inside the probe cavity.
If so, on engines with EI probes, does #2 read significantly higher
than the others?
Steve K
Tiger N3SK
Message 2
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| Subject: | JPI vs EI Probes |
> can I now happily drill through the sky with
> readings of 430-450 deg F in cruise when this seemingly
> equates to a Lycoming equivalent of below 400?
Who cares? The point is, Grummans still run hotter than a great many other
aircraft, and that's not right. As someone who was never able to track down
or reduce his 450-deg. cruise CHT's, and suffered a total top overhaul at
750 hrs., I say accepting our CHT's to be higher than other airplanes and
saying, "It's just a measurement problem" is hiding our heads in the sand.
We need to fix the problem, either with new cowl designs or cowl flaps.
By the way, I remember one of my mechanics beaming a laser temperature
thermometer right at the heads after I shut down from a flight, while I read
him the readings on the EDM-700 from the cockpit. It's been about 8 years,
but I recall being surprised that the two were within a couple of degrees of
each other. It's easy enough for all of us to do a similar test...
Marc Coan,
Taos, NM
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Any interesting annuals lately? |
Well, yes I have. =C2-I did an annual on a 75 Tiger in which the entire in
strument panel had been cut open at the avionics stack. =C2-Picture if you
will, the panel being cut 6 1/4 inches wide, the width of the avionics stac
k, from the top to the bottom, and then braces and avionics trays installed
to replace the strength removed by the removing the panel. =C2-
The wings were leaking at bond lines. =C2-I referred him to Fletcher but h
e said it was too far to go.
Every surface had been riveted together. =C2-Obviously, major debonding.
=C2-The fuel tanks are the last sections to be riveted.
I had another customer deliver his plane saying, "I need it in a week to fly
to Southern California." =C2-I finished the plane and called one of the t
hree partners; the one who wanted the plane in a week. =C2-He couldn't fly
over because his life insurance wasn't paid off. =C2-The second owner had
lost his medical and couldn't fly. =C2-The third partner just bought a Bo
nanza and was busy. =C2-After going back and forth, I got paid. =C2-Two
months passed. =C2-The first partner finally got his life insurance paid o
ff and was working with the third owner to get a ride over. =C2-A day was
arranged. =C2-I waited. =C2-and waited. =C2-No owner. =C2-I called.
=C2-Apparently the third partner was not IFR current, and, even though the
sky was blue from the bay area to Auburn, could not fly over the cloud cove
r in the central valley because, God forbid, what if the engine in his Bonan
za quits and he has to land in the fog. =C2-I finally moved the plane to t
ransient parking, called the first partner and told him it would cost $10 a
day in transient. =C2-He was there the next day to pick up the plane.=C2
-
I finished another annual, the owner paid 1/3 of the annual, and, since she
lost her medical, has decided to leave the plane in Auburn. =C2-Any intere
st in a good deal on a 79 Cheetah?
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith <res02p3h@comcast.net>
Sent: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 1:46 pm
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Any interesting annuals lately?
=C2-
=C2-
Gary,=C2-
=C2-
Have you had any interesting/odd annuals recently?=C2-
=C2-
Thanks.=C2-
=C2-
Bruce Smith=C2-
=C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
=C2-
=C2-
Message 4
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| Subject: | Any interesting annuals lately? |
just out of curiosty, what do you charge for an annual for 1978 grumman aa1
c i would fly to you and assist?
sting annuals lately?Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 01:11:39 -0400From: teamgrumman
@aol.comWell, yes I have. I did an annual on a 75 Tiger in which the entir
e instrument panel had been cut open at the avionics stack. Picture if you
will, the panel being cut 6 1/4 inches wide, the width of the avionics sta
ck, from the top to the bottom, and then braces and avionics trays installe
d to replace the strength removed by the removing the panel.
The wings were leaking at bond lines. I referred him to Fletcher but he sa
id it was too far to go.
Every surface had been riveted together. Obviously, major debonding. The
fuel tanks are the last sections to be riveted.
I had another customer deliver his plane saying, "I need it in a week to fl
y to Southern California." I finished the plane and called one of the thre
e partners; the one who wanted the plane in a week. He couldn't fly over b
ecause his life insurance wasn't paid off. The second owner had lost his m
edical and couldn't fly. The third partner just bought a Bonanza and was b
usy. After going back and forth, I got paid. Two months passed. The firs
t partner finally got his life insurance paid off and was working with the
third owner to get a ride over. A day was arranged. I waited. and waited
. No owner. I called. Apparently the third partner was not IFR current,
and, even though the sky was blue from the bay area to Auburn, could not fl
y over the cloud cover in the central valley because, God forbid, what if t
he engine in his Bonanza quits and he has to land in the fog. I finally mo
ved the plane to transient parking, called the first partner and told him i
t would cost $10 a day in transient. He was there the next day to pick up
the plane.
I finished another annual, the owner paid 1/3 of the annual, and, since she
lost her medical, has decided to leave the plane in Auburn. Any interest
in a good deal on a 79 Cheetah?
-----Original Message-----From: Bruce Smith <res02p3h@comcast.net>To: teamg
rumman-list@matronics.comSent: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 1:46 pmSubject: TeamGrumman
-List: Any interesting annuals lately?
Gary, Have you had any interesting/odd annuals recently? Thanks. Bruce
Smith =========== t" target="_blank">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =========== p:
//forums.matronics.com =========== blank">http://www.
matronics.com/contribution ===========
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: JPI vs EI Probes |
Keep the CHTs under 420 in cruise. =C2-Keep them under 470 in climb. =C2
-Replace the spark plug gasket thermal couple with the one that goes in th
e well.
-----Original Message-----
From: Cole <cole@san.rr.com>
Sent: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 7:45 pm
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes
=C2-
Gary,=C2-
=C2-
I read with interest your article in the latest Star about the differences i
n the JPI and EI CHT probes. I have a JPI EDM 700, so can I now happily dril
l through the sky with readings of 430-450 deg F in cruise when this seeming
ly equates to a Lycoming equivalent of below 400? That would make my life a
lot faster and greener (I could fly at higher airspeed and leaner)!=C2-
=C2-
Also, I wonder how to explain that #2 reads in line with the others yet it i
s a ring-around-the-spark-plug probe. Perhaps this is one of the hottest pla
ces on the cylinder, or like the other probes, is reading the temp of the al
uminum, not the air inside the probe cavity. If so, on engines with EI probe
s, does #2 read significantly higher than the others?=C2-
=C2-
Steve K=C2-
Tiger N3SK=C2-
=C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
=C2-
=C2-
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: JPI vs EI Probes |
There is no cooling problem in the Grummans. =C2-If the air flow were insu
fficient for proper cooling, the 260 hp 6 cylinder engined Grummans would ha
ve a lot of cooling problems. =C2-They don't. =C2-It's a myth that the G
rummans run hotter than any other plane. =C2-
-----Original Message-----
From: SkyMachines <marc@skymachines.com>
Sent: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 8:05 pm
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes
> can I now happily drill through the sky with
> readings of 430-450 deg F in cruise when this seemingly
> equates to a Lycoming equivalent of below 400?
Who cares? The point is, Grummans still run hotter than a great many other
aircraft, and that's not right. As someone who was never able to track down
or reduce his 450-deg. cruise CHT's, and suffered a total top overhaul at
750 hrs., I say accepting our CHT's to be higher than other airplanes and
saying, "It's just a measurement problem" is hiding our heads in the sand.
We need to fix the problem, either with new cowl designs or cowl flaps.
By the way, I remember one of my mechanics beaming a laser temperature
thermometer right at the heads after I shut down from a flight, while I read
him the readings on the EDM-700 from the cockpit. It's been about 8 years,
but I recall being surprised that the two were within a couple of degrees of
each other. It's easy enough for all of us to do a similar test...
Marc Coan,
Taos, NM
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