---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/12/08: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:48 PM - JPI vs EI Probes (Cole) 2. 08:08 PM - Re: JPI vs EI Probes (SkyMachines) 3. 10:16 PM - Re: Any interesting annuals lately? (teamgrumman@aol.com) 4. 10:27 PM - Re: Any interesting annuals lately? (Michael Karatsonyi) 5. 10:32 PM - Re: JPI vs EI Probes (teamgrumman@aol.com) 6. 10:33 PM - Re: JPI vs EI Probes (teamgrumman@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:21 PM PST US From: Cole Subject: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes Gary, I read with interest your article in the latest Star about the differences in the JPI and EI CHT probes. I have a JPI EDM 700, so can I now happily drill through the sky with readings of 430-450 deg F in cruise when this seemingly equates to a Lycoming equivalent of below 400? That would make my life a lot faster and greener (I could fly at higher airspeed and leaner)! Also, I wonder how to explain that #2 reads in line with the others yet it is a ring-around-the-spark-plug probe. Perhaps this is one of the hottest places on the cylinder, or like the other probes, is reading the temp of the aluminum, not the air inside the probe cavity. If so, on engines with EI probes, does #2 read significantly higher than the others? Steve K Tiger N3SK ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:06 PM PST US From: "SkyMachines" Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes > can I now happily drill through the sky with > readings of 430-450 deg F in cruise when this seemingly > equates to a Lycoming equivalent of below 400? Who cares? The point is, Grummans still run hotter than a great many other aircraft, and that's not right. As someone who was never able to track down or reduce his 450-deg. cruise CHT's, and suffered a total top overhaul at 750 hrs., I say accepting our CHT's to be higher than other airplanes and saying, "It's just a measurement problem" is hiding our heads in the sand. We need to fix the problem, either with new cowl designs or cowl flaps. By the way, I remember one of my mechanics beaming a laser temperature thermometer right at the heads after I shut down from a flight, while I read him the readings on the EDM-700 from the cockpit. It's been about 8 years, but I recall being surprised that the two were within a couple of degrees of each other. It's easy enough for all of us to do a similar test... Marc Coan, Taos, NM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Any interesting annuals lately? From: teamgrumman@aol.com Well, yes I have. =C2-I did an annual on a 75 Tiger in which the entire in strument panel had been cut open at the avionics stack. =C2-Picture if you will, the panel being cut 6 1/4 inches wide, the width of the avionics stac k, from the top to the bottom, and then braces and avionics trays installed to replace the strength removed by the removing the panel. =C2- The wings were leaking at bond lines. =C2-I referred him to Fletcher but h e said it was too far to go. Every surface had been riveted together. =C2-Obviously, major debonding. =C2-The fuel tanks are the last sections to be riveted. I had another customer deliver his plane saying, "I need it in a week to fly to Southern California." =C2-I finished the plane and called one of the t hree partners; the one who wanted the plane in a week. =C2-He couldn't fly over because his life insurance wasn't paid off. =C2-The second owner had lost his medical and couldn't fly. =C2-The third partner just bought a Bo nanza and was busy. =C2-After going back and forth, I got paid. =C2-Two months passed. =C2-The first partner finally got his life insurance paid o ff and was working with the third owner to get a ride over. =C2-A day was arranged. =C2-I waited. =C2-and waited. =C2-No owner. =C2-I called. =C2-Apparently the third partner was not IFR current, and, even though the sky was blue from the bay area to Auburn, could not fly over the cloud cove r in the central valley because, God forbid, what if the engine in his Bonan za quits and he has to land in the fog. =C2-I finally moved the plane to t ransient parking, called the first partner and told him it would cost $10 a day in transient. =C2-He was there the next day to pick up the plane.=C2 - I finished another annual, the owner paid 1/3 of the annual, and, since she lost her medical, has decided to leave the plane in Auburn. =C2-Any intere st in a good deal on a 79 Cheetah? -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Smith Sent: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 1:46 pm Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Any interesting annuals lately? =C2- =C2- Gary,=C2- =C2- Have you had any interesting/odd annuals recently?=C2- =C2- Thanks.=C2- =C2- Bruce Smith=C2- =C2- ============C2- ============C2- ============C2- ============C2- =C2- =C2- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:27:39 PM PST US From: Michael Karatsonyi Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Any interesting annuals lately? just out of curiosty, what do you charge for an annual for 1978 grumman aa1 c i would fly to you and assist? sting annuals lately?Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 01:11:39 -0400From: teamgrumman @aol.comWell, yes I have. I did an annual on a 75 Tiger in which the entir e instrument panel had been cut open at the avionics stack. Picture if you will, the panel being cut 6 1/4 inches wide, the width of the avionics sta ck, from the top to the bottom, and then braces and avionics trays installe d to replace the strength removed by the removing the panel. The wings were leaking at bond lines. I referred him to Fletcher but he sa id it was too far to go. Every surface had been riveted together. Obviously, major debonding. The fuel tanks are the last sections to be riveted. I had another customer deliver his plane saying, "I need it in a week to fl y to Southern California." I finished the plane and called one of the thre e partners; the one who wanted the plane in a week. He couldn't fly over b ecause his life insurance wasn't paid off. The second owner had lost his m edical and couldn't fly. The third partner just bought a Bonanza and was b usy. After going back and forth, I got paid. Two months passed. The firs t partner finally got his life insurance paid off and was working with the third owner to get a ride over. A day was arranged. I waited. and waited . No owner. I called. Apparently the third partner was not IFR current, and, even though the sky was blue from the bay area to Auburn, could not fl y over the cloud cover in the central valley because, God forbid, what if t he engine in his Bonanza quits and he has to land in the fog. I finally mo ved the plane to transient parking, called the first partner and told him i t would cost $10 a day in transient. He was there the next day to pick up the plane. I finished another annual, the owner paid 1/3 of the annual, and, since she lost her medical, has decided to leave the plane in Auburn. Any interest in a good deal on a 79 Cheetah? -----Original Message-----From: Bruce Smith To: teamg rumman-list@matronics.comSent: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 1:46 pmSubject: TeamGrumman -List: Any interesting annuals lately? Gary, Have you had any interesting/odd annuals recently? Thanks. Bruce Smith =========== t" target="_blank">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =========== p: //forums.matronics.com =========== blank">http://www. matronics.com/contribution =========== Supercharge your AIM. Get the AIM toolbar for your browser. _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo ur "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes From: teamgrumman@aol.com Keep the CHTs under 420 in cruise. =C2-Keep them under 470 in climb. =C2 -Replace the spark plug gasket thermal couple with the one that goes in th e well. -----Original Message----- From: Cole Sent: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 7:45 pm Subject: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes =C2- Gary,=C2- =C2- I read with interest your article in the latest Star about the differences i n the JPI and EI CHT probes. I have a JPI EDM 700, so can I now happily dril l through the sky with readings of 430-450 deg F in cruise when this seeming ly equates to a Lycoming equivalent of below 400? That would make my life a lot faster and greener (I could fly at higher airspeed and leaner)!=C2- =C2- Also, I wonder how to explain that #2 reads in line with the others yet it i s a ring-around-the-spark-plug probe. Perhaps this is one of the hottest pla ces on the cylinder, or like the other probes, is reading the temp of the al uminum, not the air inside the probe cavity. If so, on engines with EI probe s, does #2 read significantly higher than the others?=C2- =C2- Steve K=C2- Tiger N3SK=C2- =C2- ============C2- ============C2- ============C2- ============C2- =C2- =C2- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes From: teamgrumman@aol.com There is no cooling problem in the Grummans. =C2-If the air flow were insu fficient for proper cooling, the 260 hp 6 cylinder engined Grummans would ha ve a lot of cooling problems. =C2-They don't. =C2-It's a myth that the G rummans run hotter than any other plane. =C2- -----Original Message----- From: SkyMachines Sent: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 8:05 pm Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes > can I now happily drill through the sky with > readings of 430-450 deg F in cruise when this seemingly > equates to a Lycoming equivalent of below 400? Who cares? The point is, Grummans still run hotter than a great many other aircraft, and that's not right. As someone who was never able to track down or reduce his 450-deg. cruise CHT's, and suffered a total top overhaul at 750 hrs., I say accepting our CHT's to be higher than other airplanes and saying, "It's just a measurement problem" is hiding our heads in the sand. We need to fix the problem, either with new cowl designs or cowl flaps. By the way, I remember one of my mechanics beaming a laser temperature thermometer right at the heads after I shut down from a flight, while I read him the readings on the EDM-700 from the cockpit. It's been about 8 years, but I recall being surprised that the two were within a couple of degrees of each other. It's easy enough for all of us to do a similar test... Marc Coan, Taos, NM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.