Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:55 AM - Re: Any interesting annuals lately? (Andy Thomas)
2. 07:04 AM - Re: Any interesting annuals lately? (SkyMachines)
3. 07:04 AM - Re: JPI vs EI Probes (SkyMachines)
4. 11:29 AM - Re: Any interesting annuals lately? (teamgrumman@aol.com)
5. 11:40 AM - Re: JPI vs EI Probes (teamgrumman@aol.com)
6. 11:54 AM - Re: Any interesting annuals lately? (teamgrumman@aol.com)
7. 12:02 PM - Re: JPI vs EI Probes (SkyMachines)
8. 01:51 PM - Re: JPI vs EI Probes (teamgrumman@aol.com)
9. 02:14 PM - Re: JPI vs EI Probes (SkyMachines)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Any interesting annuals lately? |
Gary,
Can you supply some details on the 79 Cheetah or put me in touch with
the seller.
thanks,
Andy Thomas
----- Original Message -----
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:23 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Any interesting annuals lately?
just out of curiosty, what do you charge for an annual for 1978
grumman aa1c i would fly to you and assist?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Any interesting annuals lately?
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 01:11:39 -0400
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
Well, yes I have. I did an annual on a 75 Tiger in which the entire
instrument panel had been cut open at the avionics stack. Picture if
you will, the panel being cut 6 1/4 inches wide, the width of the
avionics stack, from the top to the bottom, and then braces and avionics
trays installed to replace the strength removed by the removing the
panel.
The wings were leaking at bond lines. I referred him to Fletcher
but he said it was too far to go.
Every surface had been riveted together. Obviously, major
debonding. The fuel tanks are the last sections to be riveted.
I had another customer deliver his plane saying, "I need it in a
week to fly to Southern California." I finished the plane and called
one of the three partners; the one who wanted the plane in a week. He
couldn't fly over because his life insurance wasn't paid off. The
second owner had lost his medical and couldn't fly. The third partner
just bought a Bonanza and was busy. After going back and forth, I got
paid. Two months passed. The first partner finally got his life
insurance paid off and was working with the third owner to get a ride
over. A day was arranged. I waited. and waited. No owner. I called.
Apparently the third partner was not IFR current, and, even though the
sky was blue from the bay area to Auburn, could not fly over the cloud
cover in the central valley because, God forbid, what if the engine in
his Bonanza quits and he has to land in the fog. I finally moved the
plane to transient parking, called the first partner and told him it
would cost $10 a day in transient. He was there the next day to pick up
the plane.
I finished another annual, the owner paid 1/3 of the annual, and,
since she lost her medical, has decided to leave the plane in Auburn.
Any interest in a good deal on a 79 Cheetah?
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith <res02p3h@comcast.net>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 1:46 pm
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Any interesting annuals lately?
<res02p3h@comcast.net>
Gary,
Have you had any interesting/odd annuals recently?
Thanks.
Bruce Smith
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3/12/2008 1:27 PM
Message 2
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| Subject: | Any interesting annuals lately? |
It never ceases to amaze me what owners and sellers of airplanes expect for
their money. And the cheapskatedness of aircraft owners in general is
amazing, considering many have a lot more money than the shops they do
business with. But there seems to be more cheapskatedness by the owners of
Mooneys and Grumans than Bonanza and 210 drivers. Makes sense, I suppose, as
the efficiency of the former would naturally attract those who want to
skimp.
I'm old-fashioned I guess. I believe 1.) You get what you pay for 2.) Either
you can afford an airplane or you can't...if you can, then you pay the your
bills on time, every time. If you can't, you sell it and become a renter.
3.) If you make a deal or a promise, you stick to it, even if you lose your
medical, your car's transmission goes out, it's IFR, or whatever...no
excuses. 4.) If you're in business, you return calls within 24 hours and you
check your email at least once daily.
Example: A partner just picked up our airplane from some repairs done by a
shop an hour away we hadn't used before. I pay the bills, so I called the
shop and said, "Fax me the invoice." He did it within an hour. I called
back. "The invoice is $2100. All we got today is $1500. My partner will
bring a check down for that. We'll have the rest next week, then you can
mail me the logbook stickers for the work." I didn't question any of the
expenses on the invoice (if I wasn't happy with the invoice, I would have
just not gone to him again). Come the following week, I mailed him a check
for $600. I would have done that even if I had to borrow the money from my
credit card at 21% interest BECAUSE I SAID I WOULD. Two days later, I had
the logbook stickers in the mail from him.
Again, this was a new shop for us. What do you think the chances we'll do
business with him again is? Probably 100%. What are the chances he'll WANT
to do business with us again? Probably 100%. All because he and I did what
we said we would, when we said we would.
_____
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Any interesting annuals lately?
Well, yes I have. I did an annual on a 75 Tiger in which the entire
instrument panel had been cut open at the avionics stack. Picture if you
will, the panel being cut 6 1/4 inches wide, the width of the avionics
stack, from the top to the bottom, and then braces and avionics trays
installed to replace the strength removed by the removing the panel.
The wings were leaking at bond lines. I referred him to Fletcher but he
said it was too far to go.
Every surface had been riveted together. Obviously, major debonding. The
fuel tanks are the last sections to be riveted.
I had another customer deliver his plane saying, "I need it in a week to fly
to Southern California." I finished the plane and called one of the three
partners; the one who wanted the plane in a week. He couldn't fly over
because his life insurance wasn't paid off. The second owner had lost his
medical and couldn't fly. The third partner just bought a Bonanza and was
busy. After going back and forth, I got paid. Two months passed. The
first partner finally got his life insurance paid off and was working with
the third owner to get a ride over. A day was arranged. I waited. and
waited. No owner. I called. Apparently the third partner was not IFR
current, and, even though the sky was blue from the bay area to Auburn,
could not fly over the cloud cover in the central valley because, God
forbid, what if the engine in his Bonanza quits and he has to land in the
fog. I finally moved the plane to transient parking, called the first
partner and told him it would cost $10 a day in transient. He was there the
next day to pick up the plane.
I finished another annual, the owner paid 1/3 of the annual, and, since she
lost her medical, has decided to leave the plane in Auburn. Any interest in
a good deal on a 79 Cheetah?
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith <res02p3h@comcast.net>
Sent: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 1:46 pm
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Any interesting annuals lately?
Gary,
Have you had any interesting/odd annuals recently?
Thanks.
Bruce Smith
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===========
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===========
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| Subject: | JPI vs EI Probes |
> There is no cooling problem in the Grummans. If the air flow were
insufficient for proper cooling, the 260 hp 6 cylinder engined Grummans
would have a lot of cooling problems. They don't. It's a myth that the
Grummans run hotter than any other plane.
Ouch. My pocketbook would disagree. So, what's the solution to cylinders in
the 450 range at cruise?
Marc Coan,
Taos, NM
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Any interesting annuals lately? |
As a rule, I don't work on the 2 seater. =C2-There is a 2 seater owner her
e, however, that I've mentored, and he does pretty good work (if "I" think h
e does good, then he does good work). =C2-He has asked me to have those wi
th 2 seaters, wanting annuals, to have them brought here and he'd work on th
em. =C2-If you want to bring your plane up, I can find room for you. =C2
-The shop hours are generally between noon and 8pm. =C2-When I have an o
wner assist, I've been known to start as early as 9am. =C2-Shop rate is cu
rrently $80/hr. =C2-I'm trying to hold down prices during this economic bo
om we are privy to. =C2-
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Karatsonyi <mkaratsonyi@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:23 pm
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Any interesting annuals lately?
just out of curiosty, what do you charge for an annual for 1978 grumman aa1c
i would fly to you and assist?
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Any interesting annuals lately?
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
Well, yes I have. =C2-I did an annual on a 75 Tiger in which the entire in
strument panel had been cut open at the avionics stack. =C2-Picture if you
will, the panel being cut 6 1/4 inches wide, the width of the avionics stac
k, from the top to the bottom, and then braces and avionics trays installed
to replace the strength removed by the removing the panel. =C2-
The wings were leaking at bond lines. =C2-I referred him to Fletcher but h
e said it was too far to go.
Every surface had been riveted together. =C2-Obviously, major debonding.
=C2-The fuel tanks are the last sections to be riveted.
I had another customer deliver his plane saying, "I need it in a week to fly
to Southern California." =C2-I finished the plane and called one of the t
hree partners; the one who wanted the plane in a week. =C2-He couldn't fly
over because his life insurance wasn't paid off. =C2-The second owner had
lost his medical and couldn't fly. =C2-The third partner just bought a Bo
nanza and was busy. =C2-After going back and forth, I got paid. =C2-Two
months passed. =C2-The first partner finally got his life insurance paid o
ff and was working with the third owner to get a ride over. =C2-A day was
arranged. =C2-I waited. =C2-and waited. =C2-No owner. =C2-I called.
=C2-Apparently the third partner was not IFR current, and, even though the
sky was blue from the bay area to Auburn, could not fly over the cloud cove
r in the central valley because, God forbid, what if the engine in his Bonan
za quits and he has to land in the fog. =C2-I finally moved the plane to t
ransient parking, called the first partner and told him it would cost $10 a
day in transient. =C2-He was there the next day to pick up the plane.=C2
-
I finished another annual, the owner paid 1/3 of the annual, and, since she
lost her medical, has decided to leave the plane in Auburn. =C2-Any intere
st in a good deal on a 79 Cheetah?
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith <res02p3h@comcast.net>
Sent: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 1:46 pm
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Any interesting annuals lately?
=C2-
=C2-
Gary,=C2-
=C2-
Have you had any interesting/odd annuals recently?=C2-
=C2-
Thanks.=C2-
=C2-
Bruce Smith=C2-
=C2-
============C2-
t" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List=C2
-
============C2-
p://forums.matronics.com=C2-
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Supercharge your AIM. Get the AIM toolbar for your browser.
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: JPI vs EI Probes |
If you are running 450 in cruise, then your baffles are not doing their job.
=C2-send me some pics, detailed pics, of the top and bottom (where they a
re tied to the bottom of the engine.)
-----Original Message-----
From: SkyMachines <marc@skymachines.com>
Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 7:01 am
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes
> There is no cooling problem in the
Grummans. =C2-If the air flow were insufficient for proper cooling, the 26
0 hp
6 cylinder engined Grummans would have a lot of cooling problems. =C2-They
don't. =C2-It's a myth that the Grummans run hotter than any other
plane.=C2-=C2-
Ouch.=C2-My pocketbook would disagree. So, what's the solution to
cylinders in the 450 range at cruise?
=C2-
Marc Coan,
Taos, NM
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Any interesting annuals lately? |
Here is the skinny on the Cheetah. =C2-
It's a 79 with 2878 TTSN. =C2-1029 SMOH. =C2-(I would put new cylinders
on it.) =C2-Compressions in the 76 range. =C2-I installed a Garmin 430 a
udio panel this annual. =C2-The 'thing' she had in there was scary. =C2
-505 hours on the vacuum pump (I would replace this too). =C2-260 on the
alternator. =C2-390 on the carb. =C2-etc. =C2-It has had regular main
tenance over the years. =C2-The horizontal braces were replaced two years
ago by an outfit in Minden Nevada. =C2-The engine is fairly smooth. =C2
-The prop needs an overhaul. =C2-I put all new baffles in it last year.
=C2-
As for radios, it has a Garmin 300 xl, and a spot for a King KX 170. =C2-T
he unit I took out was/is garbage. =C2-The transponder is, I think, a King
76. =C2-It has an old glide slope but I don't know if it works. =C2-
The interior is average to poor. =C2-The paint is average to poor. =C2-
This would be a great plane for someone wanting to buy cheap and fly cheap.
=C2-Wow, that sounds like the entire Grumman community doesn't it. =C2-
It isn't a plane I would fall in love with. =C2-The wings have had some da
mage in the past and had sections (roughly 18 inches square) replaced (I thi
nk Fletcher did one section). =C2-It needs wheel pants. =C2-It has them,
they are plastic and in need of replacement. =C2-The glass is in very poo
r shape. =C2-The windshield is so foggy it would make IFR training very ea
sy. =C2-
For $35,000 it would make someone a plane owner on which they could do a lit
tle work and have a decent plane. =C2-I haven't take any pictures of it.
=C2-
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Thomas <andy747@charter.net>
Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 5:53 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Any interesting annuals lately?
Gary,
=C2-
Can you supply some details on the 79 Cheetah or put me in
touch with the seller.
=C2-
thanks,
=C2-
Message 7
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| Subject: | JPI vs EI Probes |
No, I sold the airplane. But man did we play with baffling a lot.
_____
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes
If you are running 450 in cruise, then your baffles are not doing their job.
send me some pics, detailed pics, of the top and bottom (where they are tied
to the bottom of the engine.)
-----Original Message-----
From: SkyMachines <marc@skymachines.com>
Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 7:01 am
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes
> There is no cooling problem in the Grummans. If the air flow were
insufficient for proper cooling, the 260 hp 6 cylinder engined Grummans
would have a lot of cooling problems. They don't. It's a myth that the
Grummans run hotter than any other plane.
Ouch. My pocketbook would disagree. So, what's the solution to cylinders in
the 450 range at cruise?
Marc Coan,
Taos, NM
or?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
p://forums.matronics.com
ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: JPI vs EI Probes |
how many hours did you have on the cylinders you think failed do to improper
cooling?
-----Original Message-----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:36 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes
If you are running 450 in cruise, then your baffles are not doing their job.
=C2-send me some pics, detailed pics, of the top and bottom (where they a
re tied to the bottom of the engine.)
-----Original Message-----
From: SkyMachines <marc@skymachines.com>
Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 7:01 am
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes
> There is no cooling problem in the
Grummans. =C2-If the air flow were insufficient for proper cooling, the 26
0 hp
6 cylinder engined Grummans would have a lot of cooling problems. =C2-They
don't. =C2-It's a myth that the Grummans run hotter than any other
plane.=C2-=C2-
Ouch.=C2-My pocketbook would disagree. So, what's the solution to
cylinders in the 450 range at cruise?
=C2-
Marc Coan,
Taos, NM
or?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
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ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 9
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| Subject: | JPI vs EI Probes |
I think there was 750.
_____
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes
how many hours did you have on the cylinders you think failed do to improper
cooling?
-----Original Message-----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:36 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes
If you are running 450 in cruise, then your baffles are not doing their job.
send me some pics, detailed pics, of the top and bottom (where they are tied
to the bottom of the engine.)
-----Original Message-----
From: SkyMachines <marc@skymachines.com>
Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 7:01 am
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: JPI vs EI Probes
> There is no cooling problem in the Grummans. If the air flow were
insufficient for proper cooling, the 260 hp 6 cylinder engined Grummans
would have a lot of cooling problems. They don't. It's a myth that the
Grummans run hotter than any other plane.
Ouch. My pocketbook would disagree. So, what's the solution to cylinders in
the 450 range at cruise?
Marc Coan,
Taos, NM
or?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
p://forums.matronics.com
ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Supercharge your AIM. Get the AIM toolbar
<http://download.aim.com/client/aimtoolbar?NCID=aolcmp00300000002586> for
your browser.
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p://forums.matronics.com
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