Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:49 AM - Re: 1/8 inch windshield (Jason Bowman)
2. 05:53 AM - Re: 1/8 inch windshield (flyv35b)
3. 06:35 AM - Re: 1/8 inch windshield (Steve Roberts)
4. 08:09 AM - Re: 1/8 inch windshield (923te)
5. 12:10 PM - Re: Re: 1/8 inch windshield (teamgrumman@aol.com)
6. 12:15 PM - Re: 1/8 inch windshield (teamgrumman@aol.com)
7. 05:56 PM - Looking for a 78-79 Cheetah (SkyMachines)
8. 09:03 PM - Re: Looking for a 78-79 Cheetah (Jim Hall)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 1/8 inch windshield |
> Does anyone know what the weight is on a thin windshield? =C2-I'm assuming
> the 1/4 inch windshield is the one that shows up on all of the factory weig
> ht and balance lists.
>
How thick is the thick one? 3/8", 1/2". I can't remember. The weight ratio
should be pretty close to the thickness ratio. I would think that's close
enough for weight and balance updates. I think the actual weight would be
higher than this estimation because I believe the thicker windshield adds
material to the inside dimension, which occupies a smaller volume. Or you can
stand on a bathroom scale with and without the windshield. The difference is
the weight of the windshield.
Jason
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 1/8 inch windshield |
I don't recall if the windshield is even on the equipment list. Compare an
original equipment list for a 75 Tiger with one for a 77 or later and see
if they are the same.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:30 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 1/8 inch windshield
Today I removed an 1/8 inch windshield from a Tiger. It's the first thin
windshield I''ve ever seen in an AA5x. THe one thing I noticed right off
was how light it was. This one will need a weight and balance update.
Does anyone know what the weight is on a thin windshield=3F I'm assuming t
he 1/4 inch windshield is the one that shows up on all of the factory weigh
t and balance lists.
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Message 3
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| Subject: | 1/8 inch windshield |
Gary, I don't recall what the numbers were exactly but LP Aero drop shoipped
the windshield and canopy I just had installed on my B model. Seems the two
and four place used different thicknesses. The two place were 1/8" and 3/16"
with the 1/8" being stock. I believe the four place numbers are 3/16 &
1/4... Call LP they have all the data. In fact in might even be on their
website, I forget.
We shall not cease from exploration.
And at the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive were we started
And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N641HY @ ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 1/8 inch windshield
Today I removed an 1/8 inch windshield from a Tiger. It's the first thin
windshield I''ve ever seen in an AA5x. THe one thing I noticed right off
was how light it was. This one will need a weight and balance update.
Does anyone know what the weight is on a thin windshield? I'm assuming the
1/4 inch windshield is the one that shows up on all of the factory weight
and balance lists.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 1/8 inch windshield |
Gary,
I think the 1/8" is around 4 to 6 lbs
One year at Oshkosh I ask the LP Aero guy who gave a talk at the AYA
forum "Can you sell me a 1/8" thick windscreen for my Tiger?" He said he
could only under the owner produced part regs....I ask how much it
weighed and he gave me you're an idiot look and said 1/2 of what the
1/4" thick windscreeen weighs...
next time I'm at the hangar I'll weigh my old 1/4" windscreen and get
back to you.
The number that I've heard is between 8 and 12 lbs so one would save 4
to 6 lbs.
I decided that the increased structural integrity was worth that weight
and did not pursue the 1/8". I think the Tiger windscreen has a lot of
stress on it when the canopy bow is used for egress and the thought of
hitting a bird in the Sabertooth at 160kts with 1/8" makes me think the
1/4" might be the way to go
however, if it was an all out race plane 1/8" would be the way to
go......
WHAT CONDITION WAS THE 1/8" THAT YOU REMOVED?
I could only find the specific gravity of the lexan which is 1.20. One
could calculate the weight from that number....
LP Aero Tiger lexan
http://www.lpaero.com/cgi-bin/Mfr_Make_Model.asp?SubmitType=Last&Manuf=
82&Make=Tiger&Model=AA%2D5B
Care of Lexan
http://www.lpaero.com/CAREINS.html
GE Tech sheet:
http://tws-plastics.com/technical-data/lexan9034.pdf
Interesting comment on allowable variation in thickness...this was
mentioned to me by the LP Aero guy ....he said they get thin ones and
thick ones and he could pick out a thin one for me....
Q. Is my 1/4" plastic really a 1/4" thick, and if not, how come?
A. It often depends on the type of plastic you buy. For example, most
mechanical plastics like Delrin=C2=AE and Nylon plate and rod are either
planned or centerless ground to standard industry or ASTM tolerances.
Most always, these materials will be oversize; -.000" / +.025", since
the material will be machined down to the correct size. Some materials,
are sold unplanned or ungrounded, or are molded and sold "as is". These
products can be greatly oversize, and no specific stated tolerance
exists other than the material is "sufficiently oversize to allow for
machining."
In the case of acrylic (Plexiglas=C2=AE) and polycarbonate (Lexan=C2=AE,
Tuffak=C2=AE) sheet for example, these items are usually sold in
"metric" gauges. For example, 6mm thickness acrylic sheet is sold as
1/4" thick material (the actual thickness is .236"). Other examples are
listed below*:
1/10" = .098" thickness 1/8" = .118" thickness
3/16" = .177" thickness 7/32" = .220" thickness
1/4" = .250" thickness 3/8" = .354" thickness
1/2" = .472" thickness
* The thickness above may also have a "tolerance-range" which may
leave the sheets oversize or undersize.
from:
http://www.modernplastics.com/techtalk.htm
Does anyone know what the weight is on a thin windshield? I'm
assuming the 1/4 inch windshield is the one that shows up on all of the
factory weight and balance lists.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 1/8 inch windshield |
I have scales at the airport for weighing my new cowling. =C2-I hadn't tho
ught about that. =C2-Missed that one entirely. =C2-If the weigh is half,
that would be pretty significant. =C2-We'll see. =C2-Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Bowman <jbowman90@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 2:47 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: 1/8 inch windshield
> Does anyone know what the weight is on a thin windshield? =C2-I'm assumi
ng
> the 1/4 inch windshield is the one that shows up on all of the factory we
ig
> ht and balance lists.
>
How thick is the thick one? 3/8", 1/2". I can't remember. The weight rati
o
should be pretty close to the thickness ratio. I would think that's close
enough for weight and balance updates. I think the actual weight would be
higher than this estimation because I believe the thicker windshield adds
material to the inside dimension, which occupies a smaller volume. Or you c
an
stand on a bathroom scale with and without the windshield. The difference i
s
the weight of the windshield.
Jason
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 1/8 inch windshield |
The windshield I removed was in pretty bad shape. =C2-It's likely it was o
riginal. =C2-If not, it's been there a long time. =C2-For a race plane,
that 4 to 6 lbs may be significant. =C2-Especially in climb. =C2-
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: 923te <923te@att.net>
Sent: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 8:07 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 1/8 inch windshield
Gary,
=C2-
I think the 1/8" is around 4 to 6
lbs
=C2-
One year at Oshkosh I ask the LP Aero guy who
gave a talk at the AYA forum "Can you sell me a 1/8" thick windscreen for my
Tiger?" He said he could only under the owner produced part regs....I ask ho
w
much it weighed and he gave me you're an idiot look and said 1/2 of what the
1/4" thick windscreeen weighs...
=C2-
next time I'm at the hangar I'll weigh my old
1/4" windscreen and get back to you.=C2-
=C2-
The number that =C2-I've heard is between 8 and 12 lbs so one would save 4
to
6 lbs.
=C2-
I decided that the increased structural
integrity was worth that weight and did not pursue the 1/8". I think the Tig
er
windscreen has a lot of stress on it when the canopy bow is used for egress
and
the thought of hitting a bird in the Sabertooth at 160kts with 1/8" makes me
think the 1/4" might be the way to go
however, if it was an all out race plane
1/8"=C2- would be the way to go......
=C2-
WHAT CONDITION WAS THE 1/8" THAT YOU
REMOVED?
=C2-
I could only find the specific gravity of the
lexan which is 1.20. One could calculate the weight from that
number....
=C2-
=C2-
LP Aero Tiger lexan=C2-
=C2-
http://www.lpaero.com/cgi-bin/Mfr_Make_Model.asp?SubmitType=Last&Manuf=8
2&Make=Tiger&Model=AA%2D5B
=C2-
Care of Lexan
http://www.lpaero.com/CAREINS.html
=C2-
GE Tech sheet:
http://tws-plastics.com/technical-data/lexan9034.pdf
=C2-
Interesting comment on allowable variation in
thickness...this was mentioned to me by the LP Aero guy ....he said they get
thin ones and thick ones and he could pick out a thin one for
me....
=C2-
Q. Is my 1/4" plastic really a 1/4" thick, and if not, how come?
A. It often depends on the type of plastic you buy. For
example, most mechanical plastics like Delrin=C2=AE and Nylon plate and rod
are
either planned or centerless ground to standard industry or ASTM tolerances.
Most always, these materials will be oversize; -.000" / +.025", since the
material will be machined down to the correct size. Some materials, are sold
unplanned or ungrounded, or are molded and sold "as is". These products can
be
greatly oversize, and no specific stated tolerance exists other than the
material is "sufficiently oversize to allow for machining."
In the case of acrylic (Plexiglas=C2=AE) and polycarbonate (Lexan=C2=AE, Tuf
fak=C2=AE) sheet
for example, these items are usually sold in "metric" gauges. For example, 6
mm
thickness acrylic sheet is sold as 1/4" thick material (the actual thickness
is
.236"). Other examples are listed below*:
1/10" = .098" thickness
1/8" = .118" thickness
3/16" = .177" thickness
7/32" = .220" thickness
1/4" = .250" thickness
3/8" = .354" thickness
1/2" = .472" thickness
=C2-
* The thickness above may also have a "tolerance-range" which may
leave the sheets oversize or undersize.
=C2-
from:
http://www.modernplastics.com/techtalk.htm
Does anyone know what the weight is on a thin windshield? =C2-I'm
assuming the 1/4 inch windshield is the one that shows up on all of the
factory weight and balance lists.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Looking for a 78-79 Cheetah |
Gang,
I have a client looking for a 1978-79 Cheetah. Paint, interior, avionics are
irrelevant...the worse the better.
Requirements:
< 4000 TT
< 500 SMOH (done since 2000)
No damage history (a few minor dings OK; no hail)
Complete logs since new
Prefer either high-compression cylinders or Powerflow STC
We are going to refurb this under our DreamPlane program into what is
perhaps the nicest Cheetah there is: New strip and paint, leather interior,
Garmins/S-tec, and more.
Send me all leads...we'll pay a $500 finders fee for a lead that leads to
purchase of the right aircraft.
Thanks,
Marc Coan
-----------------------------------------------------------------
President
SkyMachines USA
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Tel: 1-505-349-5753
Fax: 1-866-896-5551
Email: marc@skymachines.com
Web: www.YourDreamPlane.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Looking for a 78-79 Cheetah |
Hi Mark,
I have a very nice 76 Cheetah with nearly new paint, HC engine, Stec auto
pilot w/ alt hold and GPSS, 430 and other goodies. Not a project, but you
might know someone other than the present client who might be interested.
Haven't advertised it yet.
Jim Hall
N9744U (Hate to sell, but medical problem forces it.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
SkyMachines
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 5:53 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Looking for a 78-79 Cheetah
--> <marc@skymachines.com>
Gang,
I have a client looking for a 1978-79 Cheetah. Paint, interior, avionics are
irrelevant...the worse the better.
Requirements:
< 4000 TT
< 500 SMOH (done since 2000)
No damage history (a few minor dings OK; no hail) Complete logs since new
Prefer either high-compression cylinders or Powerflow STC
We are going to refurb this under our DreamPlane program into what is
perhaps the nicest Cheetah there is: New strip and paint, leather interior,
Garmins/S-tec, and more.
Send me all leads...we'll pay a $500 finders fee for a lead that leads to
purchase of the right aircraft.
Thanks,
Marc Coan
-----------------------------------------------------------------
President
SkyMachines USA
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Tel: 1-505-349-5753
Fax: 1-866-896-5551
Email: marc@skymachines.com
Web: www.YourDreamPlane.com
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