---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/04/08: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:49 AM - Re: 1/8 inch windshield (Jason Bowman) 2. 05:53 AM - Re: 1/8 inch windshield (flyv35b) 3. 06:35 AM - Re: 1/8 inch windshield (Steve Roberts) 4. 08:09 AM - Re: 1/8 inch windshield (923te) 5. 12:10 PM - Re: Re: 1/8 inch windshield (teamgrumman@aol.com) 6. 12:15 PM - Re: 1/8 inch windshield (teamgrumman@aol.com) 7. 05:56 PM - Looking for a 78-79 Cheetah (SkyMachines) 8. 09:03 PM - Re: Looking for a 78-79 Cheetah (Jim Hall) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:43 AM PST US From: Jason Bowman Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: 1/8 inch windshield > Does anyone know what the weight is on a thin windshield? =C2-I'm assuming > the 1/4 inch windshield is the one that shows up on all of the factory weig > ht and balance lists. > How thick is the thick one? 3/8", 1/2". I can't remember. The weight ratio should be pretty close to the thickness ratio. I would think that's close enough for weight and balance updates. I think the actual weight would be higher than this estimation because I believe the thicker windshield adds material to the inside dimension, which occupies a smaller volume. Or you can stand on a bathroom scale with and without the windshield. The difference is the weight of the windshield. Jason ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:29 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 1/8 inch windshield I don't recall if the windshield is even on the equipment list. Compare an original equipment list for a 75 Tiger with one for a 77 or later and see if they are the same. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:30 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 1/8 inch windshield Today I removed an 1/8 inch windshield from a Tiger. It's the first thin windshield I''ve ever seen in an AA5x. THe one thing I noticed right off was how light it was. This one will need a weight and balance update. Does anyone know what the weight is on a thin windshield=3F I'm assuming t he 1/4 inch windshield is the one that shows up on all of the factory weigh t and balance lists. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone. =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Checked by AVG. 7:00 AM -- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:35 AM PST US From: "Steve Roberts" Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: 1/8 inch windshield Gary, I don't recall what the numbers were exactly but LP Aero drop shoipped the windshield and canopy I just had installed on my B model. Seems the two and four place used different thicknesses. The two place were 1/8" and 3/16" with the 1/8" being stock. I believe the four place numbers are 3/16 & 1/4... Call LP they have all the data. In fact in might even be on their website, I forget. We shall not cease from exploration. And at the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive were we started And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot Steve Roberts - AA-1B N641HY @ ILG ----Original Message Follows---- From: teamgrumman@aol.com Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 1/8 inch windshield Today I removed an 1/8 inch windshield from a Tiger. It's the first thin windshield I''ve ever seen in an AA5x. THe one thing I noticed right off was how light it was. This one will need a weight and balance update. Does anyone know what the weight is on a thin windshield? I'm assuming the 1/4 inch windshield is the one that shows up on all of the factory weight and balance lists. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:51 AM PST US From: "923te" <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 1/8 inch windshield Gary, I think the 1/8" is around 4 to 6 lbs One year at Oshkosh I ask the LP Aero guy who gave a talk at the AYA forum "Can you sell me a 1/8" thick windscreen for my Tiger?" He said he could only under the owner produced part regs....I ask how much it weighed and he gave me you're an idiot look and said 1/2 of what the 1/4" thick windscreeen weighs... next time I'm at the hangar I'll weigh my old 1/4" windscreen and get back to you. The number that I've heard is between 8 and 12 lbs so one would save 4 to 6 lbs. I decided that the increased structural integrity was worth that weight and did not pursue the 1/8". I think the Tiger windscreen has a lot of stress on it when the canopy bow is used for egress and the thought of hitting a bird in the Sabertooth at 160kts with 1/8" makes me think the 1/4" might be the way to go however, if it was an all out race plane 1/8" would be the way to go...... WHAT CONDITION WAS THE 1/8" THAT YOU REMOVED? I could only find the specific gravity of the lexan which is 1.20. One could calculate the weight from that number.... LP Aero Tiger lexan http://www.lpaero.com/cgi-bin/Mfr_Make_Model.asp?SubmitType=Last&Manuf= 82&Make=Tiger&Model=AA%2D5B Care of Lexan http://www.lpaero.com/CAREINS.html GE Tech sheet: http://tws-plastics.com/technical-data/lexan9034.pdf Interesting comment on allowable variation in thickness...this was mentioned to me by the LP Aero guy ....he said they get thin ones and thick ones and he could pick out a thin one for me.... Q. Is my 1/4" plastic really a 1/4" thick, and if not, how come? A. It often depends on the type of plastic you buy. For example, most mechanical plastics like Delrin=C2=AE and Nylon plate and rod are either planned or centerless ground to standard industry or ASTM tolerances. Most always, these materials will be oversize; -.000" / +.025", since the material will be machined down to the correct size. Some materials, are sold unplanned or ungrounded, or are molded and sold "as is". These products can be greatly oversize, and no specific stated tolerance exists other than the material is "sufficiently oversize to allow for machining." In the case of acrylic (Plexiglas=C2=AE) and polycarbonate (Lexan=C2=AE, Tuffak=C2=AE) sheet for example, these items are usually sold in "metric" gauges. For example, 6mm thickness acrylic sheet is sold as 1/4" thick material (the actual thickness is .236"). Other examples are listed below*: 1/10" = .098" thickness 1/8" = .118" thickness 3/16" = .177" thickness 7/32" = .220" thickness 1/4" = .250" thickness 3/8" = .354" thickness 1/2" = .472" thickness * The thickness above may also have a "tolerance-range" which may leave the sheets oversize or undersize. from: http://www.modernplastics.com/techtalk.htm Does anyone know what the weight is on a thin windshield? I'm assuming the 1/4 inch windshield is the one that shows up on all of the factory weight and balance lists. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: 1/8 inch windshield From: teamgrumman@aol.com I have scales at the airport for weighing my new cowling. =C2-I hadn't tho ught about that. =C2-Missed that one entirely. =C2-If the weigh is half, that would be pretty significant. =C2-We'll see. =C2-Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Jason Bowman Sent: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 2:47 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: 1/8 inch windshield > Does anyone know what the weight is on a thin windshield? =C2-I'm assumi ng > the 1/4 inch windshield is the one that shows up on all of the factory we ig > ht and balance lists. > How thick is the thick one? 3/8", 1/2". I can't remember. The weight rati o should be pretty close to the thickness ratio. I would think that's close enough for weight and balance updates. I think the actual weight would be higher than this estimation because I believe the thicker windshield adds material to the inside dimension, which occupies a smaller volume. Or you c an stand on a bathroom scale with and without the windshield. The difference i s the weight of the windshield. Jason ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 1/8 inch windshield From: teamgrumman@aol.com The windshield I removed was in pretty bad shape. =C2-It's likely it was o riginal. =C2-If not, it's been there a long time. =C2-For a race plane, that 4 to 6 lbs may be significant. =C2-Especially in climb. =C2- Gary -----Original Message----- From: 923te <923te@att.net> Sent: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 8:07 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 1/8 inch windshield Gary, =C2- I think the 1/8" is around 4 to 6 lbs =C2- One year at Oshkosh I ask the LP Aero guy who gave a talk at the AYA forum "Can you sell me a 1/8" thick windscreen for my Tiger?" He said he could only under the owner produced part regs....I ask ho w much it weighed and he gave me you're an idiot look and said 1/2 of what the 1/4" thick windscreeen weighs... =C2- next time I'm at the hangar I'll weigh my old 1/4" windscreen and get back to you.=C2- =C2- The number that =C2-I've heard is between 8 and 12 lbs so one would save 4 to 6 lbs. =C2- I decided that the increased structural integrity was worth that weight and did not pursue the 1/8". I think the Tig er windscreen has a lot of stress on it when the canopy bow is used for egress and the thought of hitting a bird in the Sabertooth at 160kts with 1/8" makes me think the 1/4" might be the way to go however, if it was an all out race plane 1/8"=C2- would be the way to go...... =C2- WHAT CONDITION WAS THE 1/8" THAT YOU REMOVED? =C2- I could only find the specific gravity of the lexan which is 1.20. One could calculate the weight from that number.... =C2- =C2- LP Aero Tiger lexan=C2- =C2- http://www.lpaero.com/cgi-bin/Mfr_Make_Model.asp?SubmitType=Last&Manuf=8 2&Make=Tiger&Model=AA%2D5B =C2- Care of Lexan http://www.lpaero.com/CAREINS.html =C2- GE Tech sheet: http://tws-plastics.com/technical-data/lexan9034.pdf =C2- Interesting comment on allowable variation in thickness...this was mentioned to me by the LP Aero guy ....he said they get thin ones and thick ones and he could pick out a thin one for me.... =C2- Q. Is my 1/4" plastic really a 1/4" thick, and if not, how come? A. It often depends on the type of plastic you buy. For example, most mechanical plastics like Delrin=C2=AE and Nylon plate and rod are either planned or centerless ground to standard industry or ASTM tolerances. Most always, these materials will be oversize; -.000" / +.025", since the material will be machined down to the correct size. Some materials, are sold unplanned or ungrounded, or are molded and sold "as is". These products can be greatly oversize, and no specific stated tolerance exists other than the material is "sufficiently oversize to allow for machining." In the case of acrylic (Plexiglas=C2=AE) and polycarbonate (Lexan=C2=AE, Tuf fak=C2=AE) sheet for example, these items are usually sold in "metric" gauges. For example, 6 mm thickness acrylic sheet is sold as 1/4" thick material (the actual thickness is .236"). Other examples are listed below*: 1/10" = .098" thickness 1/8" = .118" thickness 3/16" = .177" thickness 7/32" = .220" thickness 1/4" = .250" thickness 3/8" = .354" thickness 1/2" = .472" thickness =C2- * The thickness above may also have a "tolerance-range" which may leave the sheets oversize or undersize. =C2- from: http://www.modernplastics.com/techtalk.htm Does anyone know what the weight is on a thin windshield? =C2-I'm assuming the 1/4 inch windshield is the one that shows up on all of the factory weight and balance lists. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:03 PM PST US From: "SkyMachines" Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Looking for a 78-79 Cheetah Gang, I have a client looking for a 1978-79 Cheetah. Paint, interior, avionics are irrelevant...the worse the better. Requirements: < 4000 TT < 500 SMOH (done since 2000) No damage history (a few minor dings OK; no hail) Complete logs since new Prefer either high-compression cylinders or Powerflow STC We are going to refurb this under our DreamPlane program into what is perhaps the nicest Cheetah there is: New strip and paint, leather interior, Garmins/S-tec, and more. Send me all leads...we'll pay a $500 finders fee for a lead that leads to purchase of the right aircraft. Thanks, Marc Coan ----------------------------------------------------------------- President SkyMachines USA Santa Fe, New Mexico Tel: 1-505-349-5753 Fax: 1-866-896-5551 Email: marc@skymachines.com Web: www.YourDreamPlane.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:34 PM PST US From: "Jim Hall" Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Looking for a 78-79 Cheetah Hi Mark, I have a very nice 76 Cheetah with nearly new paint, HC engine, Stec auto pilot w/ alt hold and GPSS, 430 and other goodies. Not a project, but you might know someone other than the present client who might be interested. Haven't advertised it yet. Jim Hall N9744U (Hate to sell, but medical problem forces it.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SkyMachines Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 5:53 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Looking for a 78-79 Cheetah --> Gang, I have a client looking for a 1978-79 Cheetah. Paint, interior, avionics are irrelevant...the worse the better. Requirements: < 4000 TT < 500 SMOH (done since 2000) No damage history (a few minor dings OK; no hail) Complete logs since new Prefer either high-compression cylinders or Powerflow STC We are going to refurb this under our DreamPlane program into what is perhaps the nicest Cheetah there is: New strip and paint, leather interior, Garmins/S-tec, and more. Send me all leads...we'll pay a $500 finders fee for a lead that leads to purchase of the right aircraft. Thanks, Marc Coan ----------------------------------------------------------------- President SkyMachines USA Santa Fe, New Mexico Tel: 1-505-349-5753 Fax: 1-866-896-5551 Email: marc@skymachines.com Web: www.YourDreamPlane.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.