Today's Message Index:
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1. 11:43 AM - Re: Dive test (G Vogt)
2. 12:27 PM - Re: Dive test (G Vogt)
3. 12:33 PM - Re: Dive test (G Vogt)
4. 12:33 PM - Re: Dive test (G Vogt)
5. 12:37 PM - Re: Dive test (robsherwin@AOL.COM)
6. 12:56 PM - Re: Dive test (G Vogt)
7. 09:05 PM - Re: Dive test (teamgrumman@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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66% power, 122 indicated, 8500 feet, 126 GPS ground speed, 2650 rpm,
142 True Airspeed
Pushing a 15 knot headwind
9.3 gph
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 20, 2008, at 12:22 AM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
> Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork)
> lined up and we flew the dive tests.
>
> Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger,
> but it isn't easy. I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it
> to 220 mph. A Malibu at the same angle of decent screams right by
> the Tiger, even with the power at cutoff. We tried it twice.
>
> Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before
> I got it to 190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph).
>
> SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at
> 170 knots and can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. We
> needed 195 knots (224 mph, due to the position error on the Malibu.)
> to make the dive count. So far so good.
>
> The 4th test proved that the Malibu, with the gear hanging down, has
> about the same drag as a Tiger. We were close.
> On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to
> 200 knots. Next step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the
> video and flight data.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Now, for the rest of the story.
>
> On the first dive test, we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. It wasn't easy.
>
> On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above
> the beginning of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. The
> Malibu still blew by like I was parked.
>
> On the third test, we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test
> due to my own minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL)
>
> On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left
> wing), we easily got to 220 MPH indicated. Unfortunately, the
> indicated in the Malibu showed we were too slow by about 6 mph.
>
> On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left
> wing, gear down, we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; 200 knots on the
> Malibu.
>
> Word of note: You will never even get close the the redline on a
> Tiger. Pointing the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it
> stops accelerating with the engine at 2650 rpm. I had to nudge the
> throttle to cut the drag from the prop in order to get past 220
> mph. It's very difficult to get to the plane's redline with a fixed
> pitch prop. Clearly, with a constant speed prop, this test would
> have been a whole lot easier.
>
> At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. It takes a tremendous
> amount of forward stick to get it to dive at those speeds. Recovery
> is nothing more than relaxing the pressure on the yoke. We never
> experienced more than a little over 1g pulling out of a dive. About
> a 5000 f oot loss in altitude. Very stable plane. The FAA
> inspector was impressed. Nuff said.
>
> Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't
> supposed to do.
>
>
Message 2
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12000 ft. 7C OAT. 117 ind. 120 GPS. 2650 rpm. 62% pwr.
142 TAS.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 19, 2008, at 11:22 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
> Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork)
> lined up and we flew the dive tests.
>
> Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger,
> but it isn't easy. I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it
> to 220 mph. A Malibu at the same angle of decent screams right by
> the Tiger, even with the power at cutoff. We tried it twice.
>
> Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before
> I got it to 190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph).
>
> SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at
> 170 knots and can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. We
> needed 195 knots (224 mph, due to the position error on the Malibu.)
> to make the dive count. So far so good.
>
> The 4th test proved that the Malibu, with the gear hanging down, has
> about the same drag as a Tiger. We were close.
> On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to
> 200 knots. Next step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the
> video and flight data.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Now, for the rest of the story.
>
> On the first dive test, we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. It wasn't easy.
>
> On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above
> the beginning of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. The
> Malibu still blew by like I was parked.
>
> On the third test, we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test
> due to my own minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL)
>
> On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left
> wing), we easily got to 220 MPH indicated. Unfortunately, the
> indicated in the Malibu showed we were too slow by about 6 mph.
>
> On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left
> wing, gear down, we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; 200 knots on the
> Malibu.
>
> Word of note: You will never even get close the the redline on a
> Tiger. Pointing the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it
> stops accelerating with the engine at 2650 rpm. I had to nudge the
> throttle to cut the drag from the prop in order to get past 220
> mph. It's very difficult to get to the plane's redline with a fixed
> pitch prop. Clearly, with a constant speed prop, this test would
> have been a whole lot easier.
>
> At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. It takes a tremendous
> amount of forward stick to get it to dive at those speeds. Recovery
> is nothing more than relaxing the pressure on the yoke. We never
> experienced more than a little over 1g pulling out of a dive. About
> a 5000 f oot loss in altitude. Very stable plane. The FAA
> inspector was impressed. Nuff said.
>
> Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't
> supposed to do.
>
>
Message 3
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Book speed for last one is 132 TAS
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 19, 2008, at 11:22 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
> Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork)
> lined up and we flew the dive tests.
>
> Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger,
> but it isn't easy. I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it
> to 220 mph. A Malibu at the same angle of decent screams right by
> the Tiger, even with the power at cutoff. We tried it twice.
>
> Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before
> I got it to 190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph).
>
> SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at
> 170 knots and can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. We
> needed 195 knots (224 mph, due to the position error on the Malibu.)
> to make the dive count. So far so good.
>
> The 4th test proved that the Malibu, with the gear hanging down, has
> about the same drag as a Tiger. We were close.
> On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to
> 200 knots. Next step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the
> video and flight data.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Now, for the rest of the story.
>
> On the first dive test, we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. It wasn't easy.
>
> On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above
> the beginning of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. The
> Malibu still blew by like I was parked.
>
> On the third test, we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test
> due to my own minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL)
>
> On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left
> wing), we easily got to 220 MPH indicated. Unfortunately, the
> indicated in the Malibu showed we were too slow by about 6 mph.
>
> On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left
> wing, gear down, we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; 200 knots on the
> Malibu.
>
> Word of note: You will never even get close the the redline on a
> Tiger. Pointing the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it
> stops accelerating with the engine at 2650 rpm. I had to nudge the
> throttle to cut the drag from the prop in order to get past 220
> mph. It's very difficult to get to the plane's redline with a fixed
> pitch prop. Clearly, with a constant speed prop, this test would
> have been a whole lot easier.
>
> At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. It takes a tremendous
> amount of forward stick to get it to dive at those speeds. Recovery
> is nothing more than relaxing the pressure on the yoke. We never
> experienced more than a little over 1g pulling out of a dive. About
> a 5000 f oot loss in altitude. Very stable plane. The FAA
> inspector was impressed. Nuff said.
>
> Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't
> supposed to do.
>
>
Message 4
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8.3 gph on the last one
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 19, 2008, at 11:22 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
> Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork)
> lined up and we flew the dive tests.
>
> Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger,
> but it isn't easy. I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it
> to 220 mph. A Malibu at the same angle of decent screams right by
> the Tiger, even with the power at cutoff. We tried it twice.
>
> Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before
> I got it to 190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph).
>
> SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at
> 170 knots and can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. We
> needed 195 knots (224 mph, due to the position error on the Malibu.)
> to make the dive count. So far so good.
>
> The 4th test proved that the Malibu, with the gear hanging down, has
> about the same drag as a Tiger. We were close.
> On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to
> 200 knots. Next step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the
> video and flight data.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Now, for the rest of the story.
>
> On the first dive test, we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. It wasn't easy.
>
> On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above
> the beginning of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. The
> Malibu still blew by like I was parked.
>
> On the third test, we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test
> due to my own minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL)
>
> On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left
> wing), we easily got to 220 MPH indicated. Unfortunately, the
> indicated in the Malibu showed we were too slow by about 6 mph.
>
> On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left
> wing, gear down, we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; 200 knots on the
> Malibu.
>
> Word of note: You will never even get close the the redline on a
> Tiger. Pointing the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it
> stops accelerating with the engine at 2650 rpm. I had to nudge the
> throttle to cut the drag from the prop in order to get past 220
> mph. It's very difficult to get to the plane's redline with a fixed
> pitch prop. Clearly, with a constant speed prop, this test would
> have been a whole lot easier.
>
> At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. It takes a tremendous
> amount of forward stick to get it to dive at those speeds. Recovery
> is nothing more than relaxing the pressure on the yoke. We never
> experienced more than a little over 1g pulling out of a dive. About
> a 5000 f oot loss in altitude. Very stable plane. The FAA
> inspector was impressed. Nuff said.
>
> Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't
> supposed to do.
>
>
Message 5
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What was your cruise weight (approximately)?? That's look pretty incredible, Gary.
Rob Sherwin 9853U
-----Original Message-----
From: G Vogt <teamgrumman@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:30 pm
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Dive test
8.3 gph on the last one
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 19, 2008, at 11:22 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork) lined up and we
flew the dive tests.
Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger, but it isn't
easy. ?I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it to 220 mph. ?A Malibu
at the same angle of decent screams right by the Tiger, even with the power at
cutoff. ?We tried it twice. ?
Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before I got it to
190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph).
SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at 170 knots and
can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. ?We needed 195 knots (224 mph,
due to the position error on the Malibu.) to make the dive count. ?So far so good.
The 4th test proved that the Malibu,?with the gear hanging down, has about the
same drag as a Tiger. ?We were close. ?
On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to 200 knots. ?Next
step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the video and flight data.
--------------------------------------------
Now, for the rest of the story.
On the first dive test,?we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. ?It wasn't easy.
On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above the beginning
of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. ?The Malibu still blew by like
I was parked.
On the third test,?we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test due to my own
minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL)
On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left wing), we easily
got to 220 MPH indicated. ?Unfortunately, the indicated in the Malibu showed
we were too slow by about 6 mph. ?
On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left wing, gear down,
we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; ?200 knots on the Malibu.
Word of note: ?You will never even get close the the redline on a Tiger. ?Pointing
the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it stops accelerating with the
engine at 2650 rpm. ?I had to nudge the throttle to cut the drag from the prop
in order to get past 220 mph. ?It's very difficult to get to the plane's redline
with a fixed pitch prop. ?Clearly, with a constant speed prop, this test
would have been a whole lot easier. ?
At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. ?It takes a tremendous amount of forward
stick to get it to dive at those speeds. ?Recovery is nothing more than
relaxing the pressure on the yoke. ?We never experienced more than a little over
1g pulling out of a dive. ?About a 5000 f oot loss in altitude. ?Very stable
plane. ?The FAA inspector was impressed. ? Nuff said. ?
Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't supposed to do.
?
Message 6
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11000 ft. 8.1 gph. 115 ind. 10 OAT. 60% pwr.
139 TAS.
Book 129 TAS @ 9.1 gph
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 19, 2008, at 11:22 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
> Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork)
> lined up and we flew the dive tests.
>
> Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger,
> but it isn't easy. I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it
> to 220 mph. A Malibu at the same angle of decent screams right by
> the Tiger, even with the power at cutoff. We tried it twice.
>
> Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before
> I got it to 190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph).
>
> SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at
> 170 knots and can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. We
> needed 195 knots (224 mph, due to the position error on the Malibu.)
> to make the dive count. So far so good.
>
> The 4th test proved that the Malibu, with the gear hanging down, has
> about the same drag as a Tiger. We were close.
> On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to
> 200 knots. Next step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the
> video and flight data.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Now, for the rest of the story.
>
> On the first dive test, we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. It wasn't easy.
>
> On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above
> the beginning of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. The
> Malibu still blew by like I was parked.
>
> On the third test, we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test
> due to my own minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL)
>
> On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left
> wing), we easily got to 220 MPH indicated. Unfortunately, the
> indicated in the Malibu showed we were too slow by about 6 mph.
>
> On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left
> wing, gear down, we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; 200 knots on the
> Malibu.
>
> Word of note: You will never even get close the the redline on a
> Tiger. Pointing the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it
> stops accelerating with the engine at 2650 rpm. I had to nudge the
> throttle to cut the drag from the prop in order to get past 220
> mph. It's very difficult to get to the plane's redline with a fixed
> pitch prop. Clearly, with a constant speed prop, this test would
> have been a whole lot easier.
>
> At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. It takes a tremendous
> amount of forward stick to get it to dive at those speeds. Recovery
> is nothing more than relaxing the pressure on the yoke. We never
> experienced more than a little over 1g pulling out of a dive. About
> a 5000 f oot loss in altitude. Very stable plane. The FAA
> inspector was impressed. Nuff said.
>
> Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't
> supposed to do.
>
>
Message 7
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Nearly full tanks, I was by myself. =C2-Flying from Salt Lake City to Aubu
rn. =C2-
-----Original Message-----
From: robsherwin@aol.com
Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:37 pm
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Dive test
What was your cruise weight (approximately)?=C2- That's look pretty incred
ible, Gary.
Rob Sherwin 9853U
-----Original Message-----
From: G Vogt <teamgrumman@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:30 pm
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Dive test
8.3 gph on the last one
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 19, 2008, at 11:22 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork) lined up an
d we flew the dive tests.
Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger, but it is
n't easy. =C2-I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it to 220 mph.
=C2-A Malibu at the same angle of decent screams right by the Tiger, even
with the power at cutoff. =C2-We tried it twice. =C2-
Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before I got it
to 190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph).
SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at 170 knots
and can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. =C2-We needed 195 knots
(224 mph, due to the position error on the Malibu.) to make the dive count.
=C2-So far so good.
The 4th test proved that the Malibu,=C2-with the gear hanging down, has ab
out the same drag as a Tiger. =C2-We were close. =C2-
On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to 200 knots
. =C2-Next step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the video and fligh
t data.
--------------------------------------------
Now, for the rest of the story.
On the first dive test,=C2-we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. =C2-It wasn't ea
sy.
On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above the begi
nning of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. =C2-The Malibu still b
lew by like I was parked.
On the third test,=C2-we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test due t
o my own minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL)
On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left wing), w
e easily got to 220 MPH indicated. =C2-Unfortunately, the indicated in the
Malibu showed we were too slow by about 6 mph. =C2-
On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left wing, gear
down, we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; =C2-200 knots on the Malibu.
Word of note: =C2-You will never even get close the the redline on a Tiger
. =C2-Pointing the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it stops accele
rating with the engine at 2650 rpm. =C2-I had to nudge the throttle to cut
the drag from the prop in order to get past 220 mph. =C2-It's very diffic
ult to get to the plane's redline with a fixed pitch prop. =C2-Clearly, wi
th a constant speed prop, this test would have been a whole lot easier. =C2
-
At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. =C2-It takes a tremendous amo
unt of forward stick to get it to dive at those speeds. =C2-Recovery is no
thing more than relaxing the pressure on the yoke. =C2-We never experience
d more than a little over 1g pulling out of a dive. =C2-About a 5000 f oot
loss in altitude. =C2-Very stable plane. =C2-The FAA inspector was impr
essed. =C2- Nuff said. =C2-
Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't supposed to d
o. =C2-
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