---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/27/08: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:43 AM - Re: Dive test (G Vogt) 2. 12:27 PM - Re: Dive test (G Vogt) 3. 12:33 PM - Re: Dive test (G Vogt) 4. 12:33 PM - Re: Dive test (G Vogt) 5. 12:37 PM - Re: Dive test (robsherwin@AOL.COM) 6. 12:56 PM - Re: Dive test (G Vogt) 7. 09:05 PM - Re: Dive test (teamgrumman@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:42 AM PST US From: G Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Dive test 66% power, 122 indicated, 8500 feet, 126 GPS ground speed, 2650 rpm, 142 True Airspeed Pushing a 15 knot headwind 9.3 gph Sent from my iPhone On Oct 20, 2008, at 12:22 AM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote: > Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork) > lined up and we flew the dive tests. > > Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger, > but it isn't easy. I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it > to 220 mph. A Malibu at the same angle of decent screams right by > the Tiger, even with the power at cutoff. We tried it twice. > > Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before > I got it to 190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph). > > SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at > 170 knots and can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. We > needed 195 knots (224 mph, due to the position error on the Malibu.) > to make the dive count. So far so good. > > The 4th test proved that the Malibu, with the gear hanging down, has > about the same drag as a Tiger. We were close. > On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to > 200 knots. Next step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the > video and flight data. > > -------------------------------------------- > Now, for the rest of the story. > > On the first dive test, we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. It wasn't easy. > > On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above > the beginning of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. The > Malibu still blew by like I was parked. > > On the third test, we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test > due to my own minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL) > > On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left > wing), we easily got to 220 MPH indicated. Unfortunately, the > indicated in the Malibu showed we were too slow by about 6 mph. > > On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left > wing, gear down, we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; 200 knots on the > Malibu. > > Word of note: You will never even get close the the redline on a > Tiger. Pointing the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it > stops accelerating with the engine at 2650 rpm. I had to nudge the > throttle to cut the drag from the prop in order to get past 220 > mph. It's very difficult to get to the plane's redline with a fixed > pitch prop. Clearly, with a constant speed prop, this test would > have been a whole lot easier. > > At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. It takes a tremendous > amount of forward stick to get it to dive at those speeds. Recovery > is nothing more than relaxing the pressure on the yoke. We never > experienced more than a little over 1g pulling out of a dive. About > a 5000 f oot loss in altitude. Very stable plane. The FAA > inspector was impressed. Nuff said. > > Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't > supposed to do. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:18 PM PST US From: G Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Dive test 12000 ft. 7C OAT. 117 ind. 120 GPS. 2650 rpm. 62% pwr. 142 TAS. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2008, at 11:22 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote: > Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork) > lined up and we flew the dive tests. > > Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger, > but it isn't easy. I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it > to 220 mph. A Malibu at the same angle of decent screams right by > the Tiger, even with the power at cutoff. We tried it twice. > > Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before > I got it to 190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph). > > SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at > 170 knots and can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. We > needed 195 knots (224 mph, due to the position error on the Malibu.) > to make the dive count. So far so good. > > The 4th test proved that the Malibu, with the gear hanging down, has > about the same drag as a Tiger. We were close. > On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to > 200 knots. Next step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the > video and flight data. > > -------------------------------------------- > Now, for the rest of the story. > > On the first dive test, we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. It wasn't easy. > > On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above > the beginning of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. The > Malibu still blew by like I was parked. > > On the third test, we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test > due to my own minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL) > > On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left > wing), we easily got to 220 MPH indicated. Unfortunately, the > indicated in the Malibu showed we were too slow by about 6 mph. > > On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left > wing, gear down, we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; 200 knots on the > Malibu. > > Word of note: You will never even get close the the redline on a > Tiger. Pointing the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it > stops accelerating with the engine at 2650 rpm. I had to nudge the > throttle to cut the drag from the prop in order to get past 220 > mph. It's very difficult to get to the plane's redline with a fixed > pitch prop. Clearly, with a constant speed prop, this test would > have been a whole lot easier. > > At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. It takes a tremendous > amount of forward stick to get it to dive at those speeds. Recovery > is nothing more than relaxing the pressure on the yoke. We never > experienced more than a little over 1g pulling out of a dive. About > a 5000 f oot loss in altitude. Very stable plane. The FAA > inspector was impressed. Nuff said. > > Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't > supposed to do. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:14 PM PST US From: G Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Dive test Book speed for last one is 132 TAS Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2008, at 11:22 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote: > Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork) > lined up and we flew the dive tests. > > Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger, > but it isn't easy. I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it > to 220 mph. A Malibu at the same angle of decent screams right by > the Tiger, even with the power at cutoff. We tried it twice. > > Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before > I got it to 190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph). > > SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at > 170 knots and can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. We > needed 195 knots (224 mph, due to the position error on the Malibu.) > to make the dive count. So far so good. > > The 4th test proved that the Malibu, with the gear hanging down, has > about the same drag as a Tiger. We were close. > On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to > 200 knots. Next step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the > video and flight data. > > -------------------------------------------- > Now, for the rest of the story. > > On the first dive test, we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. It wasn't easy. > > On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above > the beginning of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. The > Malibu still blew by like I was parked. > > On the third test, we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test > due to my own minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL) > > On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left > wing), we easily got to 220 MPH indicated. Unfortunately, the > indicated in the Malibu showed we were too slow by about 6 mph. > > On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left > wing, gear down, we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; 200 knots on the > Malibu. > > Word of note: You will never even get close the the redline on a > Tiger. Pointing the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it > stops accelerating with the engine at 2650 rpm. I had to nudge the > throttle to cut the drag from the prop in order to get past 220 > mph. It's very difficult to get to the plane's redline with a fixed > pitch prop. Clearly, with a constant speed prop, this test would > have been a whole lot easier. > > At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. It takes a tremendous > amount of forward stick to get it to dive at those speeds. Recovery > is nothing more than relaxing the pressure on the yoke. We never > experienced more than a little over 1g pulling out of a dive. About > a 5000 f oot loss in altitude. Very stable plane. The FAA > inspector was impressed. Nuff said. > > Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't > supposed to do. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:37 PM PST US From: G Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Dive test 8.3 gph on the last one Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2008, at 11:22 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote: > Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork) > lined up and we flew the dive tests. > > Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger, > but it isn't easy. I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it > to 220 mph. A Malibu at the same angle of decent screams right by > the Tiger, even with the power at cutoff. We tried it twice. > > Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before > I got it to 190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph). > > SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at > 170 knots and can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. We > needed 195 knots (224 mph, due to the position error on the Malibu.) > to make the dive count. So far so good. > > The 4th test proved that the Malibu, with the gear hanging down, has > about the same drag as a Tiger. We were close. > On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to > 200 knots. Next step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the > video and flight data. > > -------------------------------------------- > Now, for the rest of the story. > > On the first dive test, we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. It wasn't easy. > > On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above > the beginning of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. The > Malibu still blew by like I was parked. > > On the third test, we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test > due to my own minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL) > > On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left > wing), we easily got to 220 MPH indicated. Unfortunately, the > indicated in the Malibu showed we were too slow by about 6 mph. > > On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left > wing, gear down, we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; 200 knots on the > Malibu. > > Word of note: You will never even get close the the redline on a > Tiger. Pointing the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it > stops accelerating with the engine at 2650 rpm. I had to nudge the > throttle to cut the drag from the prop in order to get past 220 > mph. It's very difficult to get to the plane's redline with a fixed > pitch prop. Clearly, with a constant speed prop, this test would > have been a whole lot easier. > > At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. It takes a tremendous > amount of forward stick to get it to dive at those speeds. Recovery > is nothing more than relaxing the pressure on the yoke. We never > experienced more than a little over 1g pulling out of a dive. About > a 5000 f oot loss in altitude. Very stable plane. The FAA > inspector was impressed. Nuff said. > > Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't > supposed to do. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Dive test From: robsherwin@AOL.COM What was your cruise weight (approximately)?? That's look pretty incredible, Gary. Rob Sherwin 9853U -----Original Message----- From: G Vogt Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:30 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Dive test 8.3 gph on the last one Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2008, at 11:22 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote: Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork) lined up and we flew the dive tests. Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger, but it isn't easy. ?I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it to 220 mph. ?A Malibu at the same angle of decent screams right by the Tiger, even with the power at cutoff. ?We tried it twice. ? Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before I got it to 190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph). SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at 170 knots and can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. ?We needed 195 knots (224 mph, due to the position error on the Malibu.) to make the dive count. ?So far so good. The 4th test proved that the Malibu,?with the gear hanging down, has about the same drag as a Tiger. ?We were close. ? On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to 200 knots. ?Next step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the video and flight data. -------------------------------------------- Now, for the rest of the story. On the first dive test,?we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. ?It wasn't easy. On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above the beginning of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. ?The Malibu still blew by like I was parked. On the third test,?we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test due to my own minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL) On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left wing), we easily got to 220 MPH indicated. ?Unfortunately, the indicated in the Malibu showed we were too slow by about 6 mph. ? On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left wing, gear down, we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; ?200 knots on the Malibu. Word of note: ?You will never even get close the the redline on a Tiger. ?Pointing the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it stops accelerating with the engine at 2650 rpm. ?I had to nudge the throttle to cut the drag from the prop in order to get past 220 mph. ?It's very difficult to get to the plane's redline with a fixed pitch prop. ?Clearly, with a constant speed prop, this test would have been a whole lot easier. ? At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. ?It takes a tremendous amount of forward stick to get it to dive at those speeds. ?Recovery is nothing more than relaxing the pressure on the yoke. ?We never experienced more than a little over 1g pulling out of a dive. ?About a 5000 f oot loss in altitude. ?Very stable plane. ?The FAA inspector was impressed. ? Nuff said. ? Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't supposed to do. ? ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:56:59 PM PST US From: G Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Dive test 11000 ft. 8.1 gph. 115 ind. 10 OAT. 60% pwr. 139 TAS. Book 129 TAS @ 9.1 gph Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2008, at 11:22 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote: > Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork) > lined up and we flew the dive tests. > > Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger, > but it isn't easy. I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it > to 220 mph. A Malibu at the same angle of decent screams right by > the Tiger, even with the power at cutoff. We tried it twice. > > Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before > I got it to 190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph). > > SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at > 170 knots and can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. We > needed 195 knots (224 mph, due to the position error on the Malibu.) > to make the dive count. So far so good. > > The 4th test proved that the Malibu, with the gear hanging down, has > about the same drag as a Tiger. We were close. > On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to > 200 knots. Next step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the > video and flight data. > > -------------------------------------------- > Now, for the rest of the story. > > On the first dive test, we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. It wasn't easy. > > On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above > the beginning of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. The > Malibu still blew by like I was parked. > > On the third test, we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test > due to my own minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL) > > On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left > wing), we easily got to 220 MPH indicated. Unfortunately, the > indicated in the Malibu showed we were too slow by about 6 mph. > > On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left > wing, gear down, we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; 200 knots on the > Malibu. > > Word of note: You will never even get close the the redline on a > Tiger. Pointing the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it > stops accelerating with the engine at 2650 rpm. I had to nudge the > throttle to cut the drag from the prop in order to get past 220 > mph. It's very difficult to get to the plane's redline with a fixed > pitch prop. Clearly, with a constant speed prop, this test would > have been a whole lot easier. > > At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. It takes a tremendous > amount of forward stick to get it to dive at those speeds. Recovery > is nothing more than relaxing the pressure on the yoke. We never > experienced more than a little over 1g pulling out of a dive. About > a 5000 f oot loss in altitude. Very stable plane. The FAA > inspector was impressed. Nuff said. > > Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't > supposed to do. > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Dive test From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM Nearly full tanks, I was by myself. =C2-Flying from Salt Lake City to Aubu rn. =C2- -----Original Message----- From: robsherwin@aol.com Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:37 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Dive test What was your cruise weight (approximately)?=C2- That's look pretty incred ible, Gary. Rob Sherwin 9853U -----Original Message----- From: G Vogt Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:30 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Dive test 8.3 gph on the last one Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2008, at 11:22 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote: Friday we managed to get all the ducks (i.e., FAA and paperwork) lined up an d we flew the dive tests. Well, as it turns out, a Piper Malibu CAN be used to pace a Tiger, but it is n't easy. =C2-I had to stand the TIger on it's nose to get it to 220 mph. =C2-A Malibu at the same angle of decent screams right by the Tiger, even with the power at cutoff. =C2-We tried it twice. =C2- Then, we tried a much shallower dive and ran out of altitude before I got it to 190 mph (redline is 200 mph, target speed was 230 mph). SOOOOOO, as it turns out, the gear on a Malibu can be extended at 170 knots and can be flown to 201 knots with the gear down. =C2-We needed 195 knots (224 mph, due to the position error on the Malibu.) to make the dive count. =C2-So far so good. The 4th test proved that the Malibu,=C2-with the gear hanging down, has ab out the same drag as a Tiger. =C2-We were close. =C2- On the fifth test, with the Malibu alongside the Tiger, we went to 200 knots . =C2-Next step, we wait to see if the FAA will accept the video and fligh t data. -------------------------------------------- Now, for the rest of the story. On the first dive test,=C2-we saw 240 mph on the Tiger. =C2-It wasn't ea sy. On the second dive test, the air got a little rough=2 0just above the begi nning of the yellow arc so we knocked off the test. =C2-The Malibu still b lew by like I was parked. On the third test,=C2-we got to 190 mph before I knocked of the test due t o my own minimum altitude limit (5000 AGL) On the 4th test (Malibu with its gear down and 100 feet off my left wing), w e easily got to 220 MPH indicated. =C2-Unfortunately, the indicated in the Malibu showed we were too slow by about 6 mph. =C2- On the 5th test, again with the Malibu about 100 feet off my left wing, gear down, we got to 235 mph on the Tiger; =C2-200 knots on the Malibu. Word of note: =C2-You will never even get close the the redline on a Tiger . =C2-Pointing the plane nearly straight down, at 190 mph, it stops accele rating with the engine at 2650 rpm. =C2-I had to nudge the throttle to cut the drag from the prop in order to get past 220 mph. =C2-It's very diffic ult to get to the plane's redline with a fixed pitch prop. =C2-Clearly, wi th a constant speed prop, this test would have been a whole lot easier. =C2 - At 240 mph, the plane is as smooth as glass. =C2-It takes a tremendous amo unt of forward stick to get it to dive at those speeds. =C2-Recovery is no thing more than relaxing the pressure on the yoke. =C2-We never experience d more than a little over 1g pulling out of a dive. =C2-About a 5000 f oot loss in altitude. =C2-Very stable plane. =C2-The FAA inspector was impr essed. =C2- Nuff said. =C2- Oh, yea, the cowling didn't bulge out or do anything it wasn't supposed to d o. =C2- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.