---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/24/09: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:27 AM - Re: overheating TIger (teamgrumman@aol.com) 2. 01:34 AM - Re: overheating TIger (teamgrumman@aol.com) 3. 01:37 AM - Re: Re: Overheating in climb (teamgrumman@AOL.COM) 4. 01:37 AM - Fw: overlay pictures (Ian Matterface) 5. 01:50 AM - Re: Fw: overlay pictures (teamgrumman@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: overheating TIger From: teamgrumman@aol.com the 2005 Tiger only has one CHT and it came with the plane -----Original Message----- From: 923te <923te@att.net> Sent: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 4:41 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: overheating TIger Hi Gary's Customer, =C2- Just back from being stranded in Cowboy country. The Starter went out in my '02 Tiger. Les Staples overnighted a new one and it works gre at! I'd like to respond to this query as I had overheating problems with my '02 Tiger and found severall things to help it cool better. I always climb at 80 kts and never have cooling issues but...when I first had my Tiger it would overheat. =C2- First, I'd confirm measurement instrumentation Second, I'd look at look at ways to make the engine cool better. =C2- I'm guessing this plane has JPI and not EI engine scanner? As the=C2-chief GGG (that's Grumman Guru Gary) has said the JPI indicates....70deg hgher than the EI and Lycoming Factory instrumentation indicates....So your 500 was really only 430.... =C2- Yep, GGG's cowl will make the cylinders run really cold, under Lyc's recommendations and I can't wait to get that cowl on mine..my EI=C2-325deg heads may be in the high 200's then:) =C2- Ways to make it run cooler....lots of secrets there that lots of mechanics did not want to let me know about...took long time to find out some of them.... dinner bell just rang.... so=C2-here is just=C2-a short list of some: =C2- 1) Whatever hole you are talking about patch it up. In fact go out at night and put a light in the cowl and find all the holes and patch th em up with silicone 2) Ensure that the baffles are open "enough" ...that is on the bottom of the cylinders. The distance between the rear wrap around baffle an d the intercylinder baffle is often too small especially on the 2000 vintage AG5B's 3) Look for cylinder cast flashing between the spark plugs blocking cooling air near the exhaust valve. 4) Make sure all the silicone baffles lay flat against the cowling. Pay attention to the front baffle cowl because my '02 silicone was too short and did not even reach the cowl. =C2- I'll try and get more details later gota run but GGG knows all this so just take her back to him and have him get it done... =C2- ned ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: overheating TIger I have a customer with a 2005 Tiger. =C2-I put a power Flow on it about a month ago. =C2-To the best of my knowledge, he was instructed to take-off and climb, every time, at 80 knot s to practice in case he needed to climb over a 50 foot obstacle. =C2- Here is his posting to me. =C2-Please give me some feedback as to what the general consensus is. ------ Hi Gary. I need some feedback. Today was the second time that I have take n off and climbed out at 80 knots, and by the time I am at 1500 to 2000 feet I have a cylinder head temp of 500 degrees=C2-and a climb rate of 1400 to 1 500 feet/min. The outside air temp was 21 C on=C2- both days. This was with full throttle and full rich. I was just beginnin g to start a cruise climb both times when I noticed it. I was looking for it tod ay, but I got cutoff in the downwind turn by two planes coming in and obviously did not hear my takeoff call out. By the time I dodged both those guys the temp was already at 500. I think the Tach was around 2400. As soon as I saw it I lowered the nose20and the increase in speed cooled it back to 375 or 385 aft er what seemed like a minute or two. I was too busy worrying about it to time the temp drop. I definitely do not remember seeing those temps when I took it h ome or the next couple of flights. The oil is 61/4 qts. Does this mean that I need to climb out at a 100 or more because even at tho se speeds I have at least 500'/min climb rate or more, or do I have to not use full throttle on take off? Is this related to the baffling and/or the open hole, or have I just mucked it up somehow. What cylinder is the probe on an d could this be related to heat from the Powerflow near the probe and cylinder head? If I am getting this kind of response at these temps, I am definitely concer ned about when it really gets hot outside, and what if I really need that Vx cli mb rate? Any suggestions. As an aside, the first refueling showed a fuel flow of 7.3 gal/hr and today after refueling it was 9.3. I assume that it is somewhat artificially low due to runnup and taxi etc time. This is just feedback. Thanks A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List"http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List href="http://forums.matronics.com "http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" http://www.matronics.com/c ======== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:34:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: overheating TIger From: teamgrumman@aol.com and it's on #4 -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com Sent: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 1:26 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: overheating TIger the 2005 Tiger only has one CHT and it came with the plane -----Original Message----- From: 923te <923te@att.net> Sent: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 4:41 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: overheating TIger Hi Gary's Customer, =C2- Just back from being stranded in Cowboy country. The Starter went out in my '02 Tiger. Les Staples overnighted a new one and it works gre at! I'd like to respond to this query as I had overheating problems with my '02 Tiger and found severall things to help it cool better. I always climb at 80 kts and never have cooling issues but...when I first had my Tiger it would overheat. =C2- First, I'd confirm measurement instrumentation Second, I'd look at look at ways to make the engine cool better. =C2- I'm guessing this plane has JPI and not EI engine scanner? As the=C2-chief GGG (that's Grumman Guru Gary) has said the JPI indicates....70deg hgher than the EI and Lycoming Factory instrumentation indicates....So your 500 was really only 430.... =C2- Yep, GGG's cowl will make the cylinders run really cold, under Lyc's recommendation s and I can't wait to get that cowl on mine..my EI=C2-325deg heads may be in th e high 200's then:) =C2- Ways to make it run cooler....lots of secrets there that lots of mechanics did not want to let me know about...took long time to find out some of them.... dinner bell just rang.... so=C2-here is just=C2-a short list of some: =C2- 1) Whatever hole you are talking about patch it up. In fact go out at night and put a light in the cowl and find all the holes and patch th em up with silicone 2) Ensure that the baffles are open "enough" ...that is on the bottom of the cylinders. The distance between the rear wrap around baffle an d the intercylinder baffle is often too small especially on the 2000 vintage AG5B's 3) Look for cylinder cast flashing between the spark plugs blocking cooling air near the exhaust valve. 4) Make sure all the silicone baffles lay flat against the cowling. Pay attention to the front baffle cowl because my '02 silicone was too short and did not even reach the cowl. =C2- I'll try and get more details later gota run but GGG knows all this so just take her back to him and have him get it done... =C2- ned ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: overheating TIger I have a customer with20a 2005 Tiger. =C2-I put a power Flow on it about a month ago. =C2-To the best of my knowledge, he was instructed to take-off and climb, every time, at 80 knot s to practice in case he needed to climb over a 50 foot obstacle. =C2- Here is his posting to me. =C2-Please give me some feedback as to what the general consensus is. ------ Hi Gary. I need some feedback. Today was the second tim e that I have taken off and climbed out at 80 knots, and by the time I am at 1500 to 2000 feet I have a cylinder head temp of 500 degrees=C2-and a climb rate of 1400 to 1 500 feet/min. The outside air temp was 21 C on=C2- both days. This was with full throttle and full rich. I was just beginnin g to start a cruise climb both times when I noticed it. I was looking for it tod ay, but I got cutoff in the downwind turn by two planes coming in and obviously did not hear my takeoff call out. By the time I dodged both those guys the temp was already at 500. I think the Tach was around 2400. As soon as I saw it I lowered the nose20and the increase in speed cooled it back to 375 or 385 aft er what seemed like a minute or two. I was too busy worrying about it to time the temp drop. I definitely do not remember seeing those temps when I took it h ome or the next couple of flights. The oil is 61 /4 qts. Does this mean that I need to climb out at a 100 or more because even at tho se speeds I have at least 500'/min climb rate or more, or do I have to not use full throttle on take off? Is this related to the baffling and/or the open hole, or have I just mucked it up somehow. What cylinder is the probe20on a nd could this be related to heat from the Powerflow near the probe and cylinder head? If I am getting this kind of response at these temps, I am definitely concer ned about when it really gets hot outside, and what if I really need that Vx cli mb rate? Any suggestions. As an aside, the first refueling showed a fuel flow of 7.3 gal/hr and today after refueling it was 9.3. I assume that it is somewhat artificially low due to runnup and taxi etc time. This is just feedback. Thanks A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List"http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List href="http://forums.matronics.com "http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.maank" href="http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronic s.com _" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> ========================= A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: Overheating in climb From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM My oil temps with half the inlet area of a stock cowling, with a powerflow, are 185-192 consistently, regardless of OAT. -----Original Message----- From: brian sandberg Sent: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 9:52 pm Subject: TeamGrumman-List: RE: Overheating in climb I always shoot for a 90 kt climb and with the Power Flow I can usually get m uch faster (and cooler) while maintaining at least 500fpm, which is an IFR c oncern, but nothing but a round number to shoot for VFR.=C2- 90-110 kt cli mbs also increase forward field of view which is already excellent over the nose of a Tiger. =C2- During a full throttle, full rich 90 kt climb on a hot day I might see 450 d eg F CHT (EDM-70) until right around 5,000' DA.=C2- I never patched the ex haust hole in my stock cowl, and I have Vogt baffles.=C2- Interestingly, a fter installing the Power Flow short stack my oil temps went up a consistent 15 deg on the EDM-700 which other people have reported too. =C2- -Brian N119ST @ SDM =C2- > Hi Gary. I need some feedback. Today was the second time that I have take > n > off and climbed out at 80 knots, and by the time I am at 1500 to 2000 feet I > have a cylinder head temp of 500 degrees=C2-and a climb rate of 1400 to 1 > 500 feet/min. The outside air temp was 21 C on=C2- ======================3 D============= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:39 AM PST US From: "Ian Matterface" Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Fw: overlay pictures Garry's Panel overlay pictures can be viewed on the following Album. http://urlizer.com/00/2410/ Ian MatAir UK ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:50:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fw: overlay pictures From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM British spelling of Gary -----Original Message----- From: Ian Matterface Sent: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 1:37 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Fw: overlay pictures Garry's Panel overlay pictures can be viewed on the following Album. http://urlizer.com/00/2410/ =C2- =C2- Ian MatAir UK =C2- =C2- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.