---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/05/09: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:38 AM - Re: WAC vs Sectionals (David Feinstein) 2. 10:35 AM - Re: Cowling Test (teamgrumman@AOL.COM) 3. 11:13 AM - Re: Cowling Test (teamgrumman@aol.com) 4. 01:45 PM - Re: Calgary and Wetaskiwin charting (David Feinstein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:32 AM PST US From: "David Feinstein" Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: WAC vs Sectionals # I am about to make a trek from Ga to NY to Me then back down the # east coast. # ... # It just seems like [WAC charts are] the better choice for this trip You will be flying through or near 5 or 6 Class-B terminal areas. WAC charts don't offer much help in these areas. You can get a feel for what you're missing by comparing WAC and sectional charts for your home area, where you're familiar with the kind of detail you do or don't need. I've flown coast to coast with sectionals and often wished for MORE detail, not less. I used WAC charts for overall planning, but sectionals for navigation. I suppose that's outmoded, compared to just plugging your destination into the GPS. There is a regulation that mandates "training" for pilots operating within 60 NM of Washington DC. It takes half an hour or less, and you get a little certificate that you can fold up with your medical cert. Look for "Navigating the DC Special Flight Rules Area" here: http://faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_catalog.aspx?categoryId=11 # Anything I shouldn't miss or be aware of in the NY-MH-ME-MA # areas? we are in our 30's with a 2 year old! Too many to list. I have some links here: http://newlangsyne.com/dest/ They're centered on Connecticut. Sorry, but it was done that way for a purpose. You should find most of the areas of interest in the rings between 0-250 NM. You might also see something you like in my account of a visit to AYA 2007 at Glens Falls: http://newlangsyne.com/gfl/ There is a boat tour of Lake George that might interest you. I thought it was just as good as the one on Winnipeaukee. Natural Stone Bridge in Pottersville is the same kind of place as Ausable Chasm: http://www.stonebridgeandcaves.com/ I'll be happy to answer questions if you contact me off the forum. Back to the charts, sort of. You'll have room for LOTS of charts if your wife rides in back with the 2YO, and the kid will probably ride better too. To a little kid, alone in the back seat probably feels like being in prison. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Test From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM I have sent all of my conversations and contacts to my DER. He is in Brazil right now and will look into it when he returns. -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b Sent: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 7:17 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Test Gary, this is pretty incredible! Why don't you write a letter to the FAA and include info about all your phone conversations in some organized logical way (even though that may not make any difference to the FAA) and see what they have to say. Basically present your case about why should any additional testing be needed based on your under cowl temperatures and maybe any lack of standards as to temperature requirements and where it is to be measured if that is the case. What are these guys trying to prove? This sort of thing used to be approved at the FSDO level with the stroke of a pen and possibly a cooling test and maybe a dive test to see if the thing holds together. Planes did not fall out of the sky as a result back then. It is no wonder there is no incentive in pursuing certified aircraft modifications any more and all the real improvements are happening in the experimental world. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 5:26 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Test > > I've spent most of the day talking to > > Ray Christ: Lycoming engines > Joe Logie: Champion/Unison > Ken Tunnel: LyCon Engine Rebuilders > Hugh Evans: Merlin Products > Ken Blackman: Air Mods Northwest > > To the best of their knowledge they've never had to instrument Slick mag > for any modification or testing. Hugh has done Bendix mags. The upper > limit on Bendix mags is 225 degrees F. Slick was offering to replace > Bendix mags on many installations years ago. That implies, the upper > limit is 225 for a Slick mag. > > "Measure the temperature on the outside surface of the > magneto frame during the long-term test at the highest RPM > setting. The magneto will generate heat during normal > operation. Maximum temperature on the outside surface of > the magneto frame is 175F when tested at room temperature." > > Note this says, "when tested at room temperature." Room temperature is > now 72 degrees F. This also says, "during the long-term test at the > highest RPM setting" which clearly means testing20on a bench. > > > To the best of their combined knowledge, no one knew 'where' to measure > the temperature. Ray said the mag had to be drilled and a thermal-couple > placed on the coil. Both Kens and Hugh said if they were to test it would > be on the magneto case (frame). Joe, Unison/Champion, said (and, this is > from my notes, but I could be wrong) that Champion only got the PMA rights > and that all of the en > gineering data, as far as he knew, none of the engineering data was > included. He said I'd have to ask their engineering department to stop > what they are doing during the reorganization and I'd have to pay for the > data. > > From the internet, the rule-of-thumb for new experimental installations > was 190 degrees in the accessory compartment. > > All of them said the person to make the decision as to what was acceptable > testing was the ACO. When I added that the ACO was hoping I'd do their > job and get the necessary paperwork, reports, certification procedures > from Lycoming or Champion, none of them were surprised. > > I'll do whatever it takes. Just let me know what needs to be done. > > Gary > > > > > > -- We are a community20of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Test From: teamgrumman@aol.com The really strange thing is, the FAA is going for a zero failure rate. Only to be able to say, "It wasn't our fault." The government cannot be sued. None of them will have their retirements taken from them. Plus. If you aren't making mistakes, you aren't learning. "The only people who have never failed are those who haven't attempted to do anything beyond the narrow limits of what they already knew they could do." - unknown "The percentage of mistakes in quick decisions is no greater than in long, drawn-out vacillations, and the effect of decisiveness itself "makes things go" and creates confidence." -Ann O'Hare McCormick -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 10:33 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Test I have sent all of my conversations and contacts to my DER. He is in Brazil right now and will look into it when he returns. -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b Sent: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 7:17 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Test Gary, this is pretty incredi ble! Why don't you write a letter to the FAA and include info about all your phone conversations in some organized logical way (even though that may not make any difference to the FAA) and see what they have to say. Basically present your case about why should any additional testing be needed based on your under cowl temperatures and maybe any lack of standards as to temperature requirements and where it is to be measured if that is the case. What are these guys trying to prove? This sort of thing used to be approved at the FSDO level with the stroke of a pen and possibly a cooling test and maybe a dive test to see if the thing holds together. Planes did not fall out of the sky as a result back then. It is no wonder there is no incentive in pursuing certified aircraft modifications any more and all the real improvements are happening in the experimental world. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 5:26 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Test >A 0 > I've spent most of the day talking to > > Ray Christ: Lycoming engines > Joe Logie: Champion/Unison > Ken Tunnel: LyCon Engine Rebuilders > Hugh Evans: Merlin Products > Ken Blackman: Air Mods Northwest > > To the best of their knowledge they've never had to instrument Slick mag > for any modification or testing. Hugh has done Bendix mags. The upper > limit on Bendix mags is 225 degrees F. Slick was offering to replace > Bendix mags on many installations years ago. That implies, the upper > limit is 225 for a Slick mag. > > "Measure the temperature on the outside surface of the > magneto frame during the long-term test at the highest RPM > setting. The magneto will generate heat during normal > operation. Maximum temperature on the outside surface of > the magneto frame is 175F when tested at room temperature." > > Note this says, "when tested at room temperature." Room temperature is > now 72 degrees F. This also says, "during the long-term test at the > highest RPM setting" which20clearly means testing20on a bench. > > > To the best of their combined knowledge, no one knew 'where' to measure > the temperature. Ray said the mag had to be drilled and a thermal-couple > placed on the coil. Both Kens and Hugh said if they were to test it would > be on the magneto case (frame). Joe, Unison/Champion, said (and, this is > from my notes, but I could be wrong) that Champion only got the PMA rights > and that all of the en > gineering data, as far as he knew, none of the engineering data was > included. He said I'd have to ask their engineering department to stop > what they are doing during the reorganization and I'd have to pay for the > data. > > From the internet, the rule-of-thumb for new experimental installations > was 190 degrees in the accessory compartment. > > All of them said the person to make the decision as to what was acceptable > testing was the ACO. When I added that the ACO was hoping I'd do their > job and get the necessary paperwork, reports, certification procedures > from Lycoming or Champion, none of them were surprised. > > I'll do whatever it takes. Just let me know what needs to be done. > > Gary > > > > > > -- We are a community20of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message 0 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:45 PM PST US From: "David Feinstein" Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Calgary and Wetaskiwin charting urk. I'll add Regina, sorry for the oversight. I included Swift Current because the guy there said fuel was $1.50 CAD/L That's equivalent to $5.25 USD/gal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham V Smith" Cc: "Dan Schmitz" ; "Jim Viola" ; "Kelly Wallace" ; "Larry Tatsch" ; "Ron Levy" ; "Walt Porter" ; "Northeast Grummans" ; "Team Grumman" ; "Steve Peach" ; "Don Metz" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: Re: Calgary and Wetaskiwin charting Loath as I am to attempt to correct the usually precise Captain Feinstein, I have to report that not all of the airports listed by Dave are airports of entry. Specifically, Swift Current is not among those prepared to welcome furriners. On the other hand, Dave's list does not include Regina (AKA CYQR) which is not far from Swift Current, and is an airport of entry. A complete list of welcoming Canadian aerodromes may be found at: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/contact/listing/indexpages/indextype5-e.html graham Graham V Smith g_v_s@me.com On Jun 5, 2009, at 1:26 PM, David Feinstein wrote: > Let's try it again, with the right link this time. > > I've posted some scans - VERY rudimentary flight planning info for > Red Deer > and a few Canadian Ports of Entry - here: http://newlangsyne.com/yqf/ > > Usual disclaimers apply: NFN, YMMV, LS/MFT, HMFIC, etc. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. 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