Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:45 AM - AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results (Mike Boyd)
2. 10:52 AM - Re: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results (teamgrumman@AOL.COM)
3. 11:59 AM - Re: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results (Mike Boyd)
4. 03:42 PM - Re: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results (FCoon77901@AOL.COM)
5. 03:54 PM - Re: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results (923te)
6. 03:54 PM - Re: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results (Rick)
Message 1
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| Subject: | AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results |
Hello Everyone,
The Straw Poll should now be closed. You can review the results of
the poll here:
http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=185
A total of 56 votes were cast on the forum, with 49 in favor of
changing or removing the date restriction and 7 against a change. In
addition, I received 4 e-mails from folks that just could not get the
poll to work for them (we'll call these provisional votes) and they
were of a similar percentage with 3 in favor of a change and 1 against
a change.
When including the provisional votes, a total of 60 votes were cast.
While this does not sound like a lot when compared to our total
membership of 1230 (as reported in the July Star), the roughly 5% is
apparently a little larger participation than we had in the most
recent election. In my periodic checking of the poll numbers while it
was running, I noted that the trend of those in favor to those against
a change remained fairly constant from the time when the first 10
votes were cast with 80% or greater being in favor of a change.
In an effort to give all AYA members a chance to vote, notice of this
poll was sent to the Grumman Gang mailing list, the TeamGruman mailing
list, and a copy of the notice was sent to each of the regional
directors so they could forward it on to their members (just as this
e-mail is). I did receive responses from people on the Grumman Gang,
on the TeamGrumman list and from several of the regional directors so,
for a poll, I think it achieved a reasonable distribution.
So, what does all this mean. My goal here was to see if there was
enough real interest to continue pursuing a change to the AYA
constitution and I think there is. So, my next step is to check and
see if there are any potential legal issues with removing the date
restriction from our constitution and check on any other legalities
related to proposing an amendment to the board. I'll then draft an
amendment and provide it for review/comment on the AYA forum topic
above or via another appropriate means. Once we are reasonably happy
with the results, I'll submit it to the secretary as outlined in our
constitution. Your role in this will be to contact your AYA
representatives once we have a final draft and provide them with your
thoughts on the subject. While the poll should be a good indication
to the board of the thoughts of the membership, it is best for them to
hear directly from you when the time comes. Once the amendment is
submitted, according to the AYA constitution the board must vote on it
and if 60% or more agree, then the amendment is voted on by the
membership.
And what this does not mean. It is ultimately still up to the members
who volunteer, make convention proposals to the board, and chair a
convention to come up with proposed dates for a specific convention.
All this amendment should do is loosen the restriction on the possible
choices for those dates.
And now, I'm off to check into those issues mentioned above. I will
let you know what I find and when drafts are available. And if anyone
wants to help out with any of this, please let me know.
Cheers,
-Mike
------
Michael Boyd
'76 AA5A
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results |
Hi Mike,
Thanks, seriously, for all your efforts. ?Don't expect anything to change. ?Even
with 60% in favor of change, hell 80%, don't expect anything to change. ?
A National healthcare system, for example, was first proposed in 1948. ?At that
time, the U.S. ranked 16th in healthcare in the world. ?At that time, healthcare
costs were 1% of the average income. ?A national healthcare system been pushed
ahead with roughly 60% to 75% approval for 61 years. ?Today, the U.S. ranks
37th in healthcare and costs 25% of the average income. ?There are?still?those
who are screaming it's going ahead to quickly. ?
A quick note on the subject: ?I taught Algebra at the Antelope Valley Community
College in Lancaster. ?I taught 4 nights a week, 2 hours a night. ?I was paid
$60/hour. ?After taxes, my take home a month was roughly $1000. ?In 2004, I got
an invite in the college mail to join the College Health Care System. ?For
$980/month, I could get full coverage, hospital stays, low deductible, etc. ?
I recently tried getting health insurance through AARP. ?For $300/month I can pay
for someone to negotiate with doctors and hospitals. ?
I have full benefits from the VA. ?
I don't know how people afford health insurance. ?If they have any health issues
at all, or history thereof, you can kiss the insurance good bye. ?
OK, I'm getting off my soap box . . . . . . . .?
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Boyd <mwboyd@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 7:29 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results
Hello Everyone,
The Straw Poll should now be closed.? You can review the results of
the poll here:
??? http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=185
A total of 56 votes were cast on the forum, with 49 in favor of
changing or removing the date restriction and 7 against a change.? In
addition, I received 4 e-mails from folks that just could not get the
poll to work for them (we'll call these provisional votes) and they
were of a similar percentage with 3 in favor of a change and 1 against
a change.
When including the provisional votes, a total of 60 votes were cast.
While this does not sound like a lot when compared to our total
membership of 1230 (as reported in the July Star), the roughly 5% is
apparently a little larger participation than we had in the most
recent election.? In my periodic checking of the poll numbers while it
was running, I noted that the trend of those in favor to those against
a change remained fairly constant from the time when the first 10
votes were cast with 80% or greater being in favor of a change.
In an effort to give all AYA members a chance to vote, notice of this
poll was sent to the Grumman Gang mailing list, the TeamGruman mailing
list, and a copy of the notice was sent to each of the regional
directors so they could forward it on to their members (just as this
e-mail is).? I did receive responses from people on the Grumman Gang,
on the TeamGrumman list and from several of the regional directors so,
for a poll, I think it achieved a reasonable distribution.
So, what does all this mean.? My goal here was to see if there was
enough real interest to continue pursuing a change to the AYA
constitution and I think there is.? So, my next step is to check and
see if there are any potential legal issues with removing the date
restriction from our constitution and check on any other legalities
related to proposing an amendment to the board.? I'll then draft an
amendment and provide it for review/comment on the AYA forum topic
above or via another appropriate means.? Once we are reasonably happy
with the results, I'll submit it to the secretary as outlined in our
constitution.? Your role in this will be to contact your AYA
representatives once we have a final draft and provide them with your
thoughts on the subject.? While the poll should be a good indication
to the board of the thoughts of the membership, it is best for them to
hear directly from you when the time comes.? Once the amendment is
submitted, according to the AYA constitution the board must vote on it
and if 60% or more agree, then the amendment is voted on by the
membership.
And what this does not mean.? It is ultimately still up to the members
who volunteer, make convention proposals to the board, and chair a
convention to come up with proposed dates for a specific convention.
All this amendment should do is loosen the restriction on the possible
choices for those dates.
And now, I'm off to check into those issues mentioned above.? I will
let you know what I find and when drafts are available.? And if anyone
wants to help out with any of this, please let me know.
Cheers,
-Mike
------
Michael Boyd
'76 AA5A
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results |
Hi Gary,
Well, I hope that the AYA as an organization isn't that bad. Thus far
everyone that has contacted me seems rather encouraging of the effort,
including several regional directors (a.k.a board members). The
reason I started this stems from the number of times this topic has
come up on one or more of the forums since I became a Grumman owner
and yet I was unaware of any formal attempt to change it. The AYA
constitution does contain the information on how to amend the
constitution and so this should be a very public and open attempt to
do that.
If it makes it to a vote of the membership, that is the best possible
outcome as the membership then decides. If the membership fails to
vote (and with a turnout of less than 5% for the last election, that
is possible), then it's not the fault of the organization's
leadership. If the board does not hear enough interest from their
members, then this too is not the fault of the board. If the board
blocks the attempt with no sound reason, then that will be the point I
would be upset and reconsider my membership in the organization...as
the leadership would have demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt to me
that they are not representing their members. For now I choose to
trust the leadership...and as a number of people have mentioned...we
will see what happens. I'm willing to put forth the effort and hope
for the best.
Now...as for healthcare...well...I don't think I'll go there right now... ;-)
Cheers,
-Mike
------
Michael Boyd
mwboyd@gmail.com
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 11:46 AM, <teamgrumman@aol.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> Thanks, seriously, for all your efforts. Don't expect anything to change.
> Even with 60% in favor of change, hell 80%, don't expect anything to
> change.
> A National healthcare system, for example, was first proposed in 1948. At
> that time, the U.S. ranked 16th in healthcare in the world. At that time,
> healthcare costs were 1% of the average income. A national healthcare
> system been pushed ahead with roughly 60% to 75% approval for 61 years.
> Today, the U.S. ranks 37th in healthcare and costs 25% of the average
> income. There arestillthose who are screaming it's going ahead to
> quickly.
> A quick note on the subject: I taught Algebra at the Antelope Valley
> Community College in Lancaster. I taught 4 nights a week, 2 hours a night.
> I was paid $60/hour. After taxes, my take home a month was roughly $1000.
> In 2004, I got an invite in the college mail to join the College Health
> Care System. For $980/month, I could get full coverage, hospital stays, low
> deductible, etc.
> I recently tried getting health insurance through AARP. For $300/month I
> can pay for someone to negotiate with doctors and hospitals.
> I have full benefits from the VA.
> I don't know how people afford health insurance. If they have any health
> issues at all, or history thereof, you can kiss the insurance good bye.
> OK, I'm getting off my soap box . . . . . . . .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Boyd <mwboyd@gmail.com>
> To: Grumman Gang <grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com>;
> teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 7:29 am
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll
> Results
>
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> The Straw Poll should now be closed. You can review the results of
> the poll here:
> http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=185
>
> A total of 56 votes were cast on the forum, with 49 in favor of
> changing or removing the date restriction and 7 against a change. In
> addition, I received 4 e-mails from folks that just could not get the
> poll to work for them (we'll call these provisional votes) and they
> were of a similar percentage with 3 in favor of a change and 1 against
> a change.
>
> When including the provisional votes, a total of 60 votes were cast.
> While this does not sound like a lot when compared to our total
> membership of 1230 (as reported in the July Star), the roughly 5% is
> apparently a little larger participation than we had in the most
> recent election. In my periodic checking of the poll numbers while it
> was running, I noted that the trend of those in favor to those against
> a change remained fairly constant from the time when the first 10
> votes were cast with 80% or greater being in favor of a change.
>
> In an effort to give all AYA members a chance to vote, notice of this
> poll was sent to the Grumman Gang mailing list, the TeamGruman mailing
> list, and a copy of the notice was sent to each of the regional
> directors so they could forward it on to their members (just as this
> e-mail is). I did receive responses from people on the Grumman Gang,
> on the TeamGrumman list and from several of the regional directors so,
> for a poll, I think it achieved a reasonable distribution.
>
> So, what does all this mean. My goal here was to see if there was
> enough real interest to continue pursuing a change to the AYA
> constitution and I think there is. So, my next step is to check and
> see if there are any potential legal issues with removing the date
> restriction from our constitution and check on any other legalities
> related to proposing an amendment to the board. I'll then draft an
> amendment and provide it for review/comment on the AYA forum topic
> above or via another appropriate means. Once we are reasonably happy
> with the results, I'll submit it to the secretary as outlined in our
> constitution. Your role in this will be to contact your AYA
> representatives once we have a final draft and provide them with your
> thoughts on the subject. While the poll should be a good indication
> to the board of the thoughts of the membership, it is best for them to
> hear directly from you when the time comes. Once the amendment is
> submitted, according to the AYA constitution the board must vote on it
> and if 60% or more agree, then the amendment is voted on by the
> membership.
>
> And what this does not mean. It is ultimately still up to the members
> who volunteer, make convention proposals to the board, and chair a
> convention to come up with proposed dates for a specific convention.
> All this amendment should do is loosen the restriction on the possible
> choices for those dates.
>
> And now, I'm off to check into those issues mentioned above. I will
> let you know what I find and when drafts are available. And if anyone
> wants to help out with any of this, please let me know.
>
> Cheers,
> -Mike
>
> ------
> Michael Boyd
> '76 AA5A
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results |
I don.t want change. Please tell us the 36 countries offering better
health care...
Fred Coon
Cancer survivor
Former N9881U owner
In a message dated 8/4/2009 12:53:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
teamgrumman@aol.com writes:
Hi Mike,
Thanks, seriously, for all your efforts. Don't expect anything to change.
Even with 60% in favor of change, hell 80%, don't expect anything to
change.
A National healthcare system, for example, was first proposed in 1948. At
that time, the U.S. ranked 16th in healthcare in the world. At that time,
healthcare costs were 1% of the average income. A national healthcare
system been pushed ahead with roughly 60% to 75% approval for 61 years. Today,
the U.S. ranks 37th in healthcare and costs 25% of the average income.
There are still those who are screaming it's going ahead to quickly.
A quick note on the subject: I taught Algebra at the Antelope Valley
Community College in Lancaster. I taught 4 nights a week, 2 hours a night. I
was paid $60/hour. After taxes, my take home a month was roughly $1000.
In 2004, I got an invite in the college mail to join the College Health Care
System. For $980/month, I could get full coverage, hospital stays, low
deductible, etc.
I recently tried getting health insurance through AARP. For $300/month I
can pay for someone to negotiate with doctors and hospitals.
I have full benefits from the VA.
I don't know how people afford health insurance. If they have any health
issues at all, or history thereof, you can kiss the insurance good bye.
OK, I'm getting off my soap box . . . . . . . .
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Boyd <mwboyd@gmail.com>
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 7:29 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll
Results
(mailto:mwboyd@gmail.com) >
Hello Everyone,
The Straw Poll should now be closed. You can review the results of
the poll here:
_http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=185_
(http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=185)
A total of 56 votes were cast on the forum, with 49 in favor of
changing or removing the date restriction and 7 against a change. In
addition, I received 4 e-mails from folks that just could not get the
poll to work for them (we'll call these provisional votes) and they
were of a similar percentage with 3 in favor of a change and 1 against
a change.
When including the provisional votes, a total of 60 votes were cast.
While this does not sound like a lot when compared to our total
membership of 1230 (as reported in the July Star), the roughly 5% is
apparently a little larger participation than we had in the most
recent election. In my periodic checking of the poll numbers while it
was running, I noted that the trend of those in favor to those against
a change remained fairly constant from the time when the first 10
votes were cast with 80% or greater being in favor of a change.
In an effort to give all AYA members a chance to vote, notice of this
poll was sent to the Grumman Gang mailing list, the TeamGruman mailing
list, and a copy of the notice was sent to each of the regional
directors so they could forward it on to their members (just as this
e-mail is). I did receive responses from people on the Grumman Gang,
on the TeamGrumman list and from several of the regional directors so,
for a poll, I think it achieved a reasonable distribution.
So, what does all this mean. My goal here was to see if there was
enough real interest to continue pursuing a change to the AYA
constitution and I think there is. So, my next step is to check and
see if there are any potential legal issues with removing the date
restriction from our constitution and check on any other legalities
related to proposing an amendment to the board. I'll then draft an
amendment and provide it for review/comment on the AYA forum topic
above or via another appropriate means. Once we are reasonably happy
with the results, I'll submit it to the secretary as outlined in our
constitution. Your role in this will be to contact your AYA
representatives once we have a final draft and provide them with your
thoughts on the subject. While the poll should be a good indication
to the board of the thoughts of the membership, it is best for them to
hear directly from you when the time comes. Once the amendment is
submitted, according to the AYA constitution the board must vote on it
and if 60% or more agree, then the amendment is voted on by the
membership.
And what this does not mean. It is ultimately still up to the members
who volunteer, make convention proposals to the board, and chair a
convention to come up with proposed dates for a specific convention.
All this amendment should do is loosen the restriction on the possible
choices for those dates.
And now, I'm off to check into those issues mentioned above. I will
let you know what I find and when drafts are available. And if anyone
wants to help out with any of this, please let me know.
Cheers,
-Mike
------
Michael Boyd
'76 AA5A
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results |
People can make statistics support anything.
Why trust WHO?
read this:
http://smartgirlnation.com/2009/06/01/popular-ranking-unfairly-misreprese
nts-the-us-health-care-system/
Message 6
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| Subject: | AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results |
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
<http://allcountries.org/health/usa_health_care_2008_nyt.html>
_____
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FCoon77901@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll
Results
I don.t want change. Please tell us the 36 countries offering better
health care...
Fred Coon
Cancer survivor
Former N9881U owner
In a message dated 8/4/2009 12:53:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
teamgrumman@aol.com writes:
Hi Mike,
Thanks, seriously, for all your efforts. Don't expect anything to change.
Even with 60% in favor of change, hell 80%, don't expect anything to change.
A National healthcare system, for example, was first proposed in 1948. At
that time, the U.S. ranked 16th in healthcare in the world. At that time,
healthcare costs were 1% of the average income. A national healthcare
system been pushed ahead with roughly 60% to 75% approval for 61 years.
Today, the U.S. ranks 37th in healthcare and costs 25% of the average
income. There are still those who are screaming it's going ahead to
quickly.
A quick note on the subject: I taught Algebra at the Antelope Valley
Community College in Lancaster. I taught 4 nights a week, 2 hours a night.
I was paid $60/hour. After taxes, my take home a month was roughly $1000.
In 2004, I got an invite in the college mail to join the College Health Care
System. For $980/month, I could get full coverage, hospital stays, low
deductible, etc.
I recently tried getting health insurance through AARP. For $300/month I
can pay for someone to negotiate with doctors and hospitals.
I have full benefits from the VA.
I don't know how people afford health insurance. If they have any health
issues at all, or history thereof, you can kiss the insurance good bye.
OK, I'm getting off my soap box . . . . . . . .
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Boyd <mwboyd@gmail.com>
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 7:29 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll
Results
Hello Everyone,
The Straw Poll should now be closed. You can review the results of
the poll here:
http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=185
A total of 56 votes were cast on the forum, with 49 in favor of
changing or removing the date restriction and 7 against a change. In
addition, I received 4 e-mails from folks that just could not get the
poll to work for them (we'll call these provisional votes) and they
were of a similar percentage with 3 in favor of a change and 1 against
a change.
When including the provisional votes, a total of 60 votes were cast.
While this does not sound like a lot when compared to our total
membership of 1230 (as reported in the July Star), the roughly 5% is
apparently a little larger participation than we had in the most
recent election. In my periodic checking of the poll numbers while it
was running, I noted that the trend of those in favor to those against
a change remained fairly constant from the time when the first 10
votes were cast with 80% or greater being in favor of a change.
In an effort to give all AYA members a chance to vote, notice of this
poll was sent to the Grumman Gang mailing list, the TeamGruman mailing
list, and a copy of the notice was sent to each of the regional
directors so they could forward it on to their members (just as this
e-mail is). I did receive responses from people on the Grumman Gang,
on the TeamGrumman list and from several of the regional directors so,
for a poll, I think it achieved a reasonable distribution.
So, what does all this mean. My goal here was to see if there was
enough real interest to continue pursuing a change to the AYA
constitution and I think there is. So, my next step is to check and
see if there are any potential legal issues with removing the date
restriction from our constitution and check on any other legalities
related to proposing an amendment to the board. I'll then draft an
amendment and provide it for review/comment on the AYA forum topic
above or via another appropriate means. Once we are reasonably happy
with the results, I'll submit it to the secretary as outlined in our
constitution. Your role in this will be to contact your AYA
representatives once we have a final draft and provide them with your
thoughts on the subject. While the poll should be a good indication
to the board of the thoughts of the membership, it is best for them to
hear directly from you when the time comes. Once the amendment is
submitted, according to the AYA constitution the board must vote on it
and if 60% or more agree, then the amendment is voted on by the
membership.
And what this does not mean. It is ultimately still up to the members
who volunteer, make convention proposals to the board, and chair a
convention to come up with proposed dates for a specific convention.
All this amendment should do is loosen the restriction on the possible
choices for those dates.
And now, I'm off to check into those issues mentioned above. I will
let you know what I find and when drafts are available. And if anyone
wants to help out with any of this, please let me know.
Cheers,
-Mike
------
Michael Boyd
'76 AA5A
===================================
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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