Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - Tach accuracy (teamgrumman@aol.com)
2. 12:11 AM - Lincoln Skyways (teamgrumman@aol.com)
3. 12:11 AM - oil filler door. (teamgrumman@AOL.COM)
4. 12:21 AM - Re: Air Sea Rescue (teamgrumman@AOL.COM)
5. 08:50 AM - Re: Tach accuracy (Gil Alexander)
6. 09:18 AM - Re: Air Sea Rescue (teamgrumman@aol.com)
7. 02:04 PM - Re: Tach accuracy (teamgrumman@AOL.COM)
8. 05:45 PM - Re: Tach accuracy (Gil Alexander)
9. 08:22 PM - Re: Tach accuracy (Gil Alexander)
10. 09:26 PM - Re: Lincoln Skyways (cwleach)
11. 10:43 PM - Re: oil filler door. (n32romeo@AOL.com)
Message 1
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Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded and must be replaced
if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong? ?I can't find it if there is one.
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Has anyone ever heard of Lincoln Skyways as a Grumman expert? ?
Message 3
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| Subject: | oil filler door. |
Lincoln is saying the oil filler door hinge (hinge is sloppy, it shuts and locks
tight but it's worn) is an airworthiness issue and wants to charge a seller
(customer of mine) $200 to fix it.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Air Sea Rescue |
I worked on HH-53s, HC-130s, during my tour in Thailand
-----Original Message-----
From: Ned Thomas <923te@att.net>
Sent: Tue, Sep 8, 2009 10:52 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue
?
Gary,?
?
Dad says he was in the 2nd air rescue service flying SB29's out of Kadena Okinawa
1951-52?
?
He asks what you were flying, choppers??
?
And what unit??
?
Ned?
?
Sent from my iPhone?
?
?
?
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Tach accuracy |
Gary,
I don't think so, since this came from
AC 20-37D AIRCRAFT METAL PROPELLER MAINTENANCE
on care of metal props - note the bit on no post-manufacture accuracy.
It might be hidden in the SAE standard referenced by TSO C94 for
tachometers, but the SAE has deemed it necessary to charge $$ for all
of their documents.
...but this really old FAA TSO gives the original 1954 accuracy as 25
rpm at room temp....
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf
The link above is to the TSO and also to SAE AS404A
This SAE $$ document is now at rev. C - but, like the text below
says, no post-manufacture stuff is probably in rev C....
I seem to remember the 150 rpm from one of the FAA Mechanics AC
books, but I can't presently find it - but it was not a FAR --
gil A
-------------------- AC 20-37D text extract -------------
8. TACHOMETER INSPECTION.
Due to the exceptionally high stresses that may be generated by
particular propeller/engine
combinations at certain engine revolutions per minute (RPM), many
propeller and aircraft
manufacturers have established areas of RPM restrictions and other
restrictions on maximum
RPM for some models. Some RPM limits have never exceed values as
close as 3 percent of the
maximum RPM permitted, and a slow-running tachometer can cause an
engine to run past the
maximum RPM limits. Since there are no post-manufacture accuracy
requirements for engine
tachometers, tachometer inaccuracy could be a direct cause of
propeller failure, excessive
vibration, or unscheduled maintenance. Tachometer accuracy should
always be checked during
normal maintenance intervals or sooner if indicators such as
excessive vibration or aircraft
performance changes might indicate inaccurate RPM readings.
---------------------------
At 12:01 AM 9/9/2009, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
>Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded and
>must be replaced if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong? I can't
>find it if there is one.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Air Sea Rescue |
I forgot to add, I was stationed with the 56th Air Rescue and Recovery Sqdn and
later the 40th ARRS in Korat and NKP Thailand.
-----Original Message-----
From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM
Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 12:14 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue
I worked on HH-53s, HC-130s, during my tour in Thailand
-----Original Message-----
From: Ned Thomas <923te@att.net>
Sent: Tue, Sep 8, 2009 10:52 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue
?
Gary,?
?
Dad says he was in the 2nd air rescue service flying SB29's out of Kadena Okinawa
1951-52?
?
He asks what you were flying, choppers??
?
And what unit??
?
Ned?
?
Sent from my iPhone?
?
?
?
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Tach accuracy |
I couldn't find anything either. ?The buyer wants a new one not realizing it is
probably 100 rpm wrong to begin with.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:29 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy
?
Gary,?
?
I don't think so, since this came from?
AC 20-37D AIRCRAFT METAL PROPELLER MAINTENANCE?
on care of metal props - note the bit on no post-manufacture accuracy.?
?
It might be hidden in the SAE standard referenced by TSO C94 for
tachometers, but the SAE has deemed it necessary to charge $$ for all
of their documents.?
?
...but this really old FAA TSO gives the original 1954 accuracy as 25
rpm at room temp....?
?
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf?
?
The link above is to the TSO and also to SAE AS404A?
?
This SAE $$ document is now at rev. C - but, like the text below
says, no post-manufacture stuff is probably in rev C....?
?
I seem to remember the 150 rpm from one of the FAA Mechanics AC
books, but I can't presently find it - but it was not a FAR --?
?
gil A?
?
-------------------- AC 20-37D text extract -------------?
?
8. TACHOMETER INSPECTION.?
Due to the exceptionally high stresses that may be generated by
particular propeller/engine?
combinations at certain engine revolutions per minute (RPM), many
propeller and aircraft?
manufacturers have established areas of RPM restrictions and other
restrictions on maximum?
RPM for some models. Some RPM limits have never exceed values as
close as 3 percent of the?
maximum RPM permitted, and a slow-running tachometer can cause an
engine to run past the?
maximum RPM limits. Since there are no post-manufacture accuracy
requirements for engine?
tachometers, tachometer inaccuracy could be a direct cause of
propeller failure, excessive?
vibration, or unscheduled maintenance. Tachometer accuracy should
always be checked during?
normal maintenance intervals or sooner if indicators such as
excessive vibration or aircraft?
performance changes might indicate inaccurate RPM readings.?
?
---------------------------?
?
?
?
At 12:01 AM 9/9/2009, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:?
>Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded and
>must be replaced if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong? I can't
>find it if there is one.?
?
?
?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Tach accuracy |
Yep... I sent my mechanical one for overhaul because it was about 125
rpm out, It came back with the same error...:^)
The airpark pilots tell me that the local Tucson speedometer shop can
re-calibrate it without telling the FAA, but I bought a digital one instead.
The old one went on e-bay for $50.... gil A
At 01:58 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote:
>I couldn't find anything either. The buyer wants a new one not
>realizing it is probably 100 rpm wrong to begin with.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:29 am
>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy
>
><<mailto:gilalex@earthlink.net>gilalex@earthlink.net>
>
>Gary,
>
>I don't think so, since this came from
>AC 20-37D AIRCRAFT METAL PROPELLER MAINTENANCE
>on care of metal props - note the bit on no post-manufacture accuracy.
>
>It might be hidden in the SAE standard referenced by TSO C94 for
>tachometers, but the SAE has deemed it necessary to charge $$ for
>all of their documents.
>
>...but this really old FAA TSO gives the original 1954 accuracy as
>25 rpm at room temp....
>
><http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf>http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf
>
>
>The link above is to the TSO and also to SAE AS404A
>
>This SAE $$ document is now at rev. C - but, like the text below
>says, no post-manufacture stuff is probably in rev C....
>
>I seem to remember the 150 rpm from one of the FAA Mechanics AC
>books, but I can't presently find it - but it was not a FAR --
>
>gil A
>
>-------------------- AC 20-37D text extract -------------
>
>8. TACHOMETER INSPECTION.
>Due to the exceptionally high stresses that may be generated by
>particular propeller/engine
>combinations at certain engine revolutions per minute (RPM), many
>propeller and aircraft
>manufacturers have established areas of RPM restrictions and other
>restrictions on maximum
>RPM for some models. Some RPM limits have never exceed values as
>close as 3 percent of the
>maximum RPM permitted, and a slow-running tachometer can cause an
>engine to run past the
>maximum RPM limits. Since there are no post-manufacture accuracy
>requirements for engine
>tachometers, tachometer inaccuracy could be a direct cause of
>propeller failure, excessive
>vibration, or unscheduled maintenance. Tachometer accuracy should
>always be checked during
>normal maintenance intervals or sooner if indicators such as
>excessive vibration or aircraft
>performance changes might indicate inaccurate RPM readings.
>
>---------------------------
>
>
>At 12:01 AM 9/9/2009, <mailto:teamgrumman@aol.com>teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
> >Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded
> and >must be replaced if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong? I
> can't >find it if there is one.
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Tach accuracy |
Century Instruments IIRC - the problem is that they can't legally
overhaul it, they can just inspect and repaint the dial.
Something to do with not having the full data from Stewart Warner.
The speedometer shop fairies might do better....:^) gil A
At 06:01 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote:
>Gil: Recently discovered that I have an Tach accuracy problem, was
>referred to a shop in Houston. But, was warned about overhaul
>problems with numerous shops around the country..so, will probably
>go with a new mechanical Tach with a warranty. Who overhauled your Tach?
>Thanks,
>Roger
>
>Roger Rucker
>AA5A '78 HWO
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:33 pm
>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy
>
>Yep... I sent my mechanical one for overhaul because it was about
>125 rpm out, It came back with the same error...:^)
>
>The airpark pilots tell me that the local Tucson speedometer shop
>can re-calibrate it without telling the FAA, but I bought a digital
>one instead.
>
>The old one went on e-bay for $50.... gil A
>
>At 01:58 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote:
>>I couldn't find anything either. The buyer wants a new one not
>>realizing it is probably 100 rpm wrong to begin with.
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Gil Alexander <<mailto:gilalex@earthlink.net>gilalex@earthlink.net>
>>To: <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:29 am
>>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy
>>
>><<mailto:gilalex@earthlink.net>gilalex@earthlink.net>
>>
>>Gary,
>>
>>I don't think so, since this came from
>>AC 20-37D AIRCRAFT METAL PROPELLER MAINTENANCE
>>on care of metal props - note the bit on no post-manufacture accuracy.
>>
>>It might be hidden in the SAE standard referenced by TSO C94 for
>>tachometers, but the SAE has deemed it necessary to charge $$ for
>>all of their documents.
>>
>>...but this really old FAA TSO gives the original 1954 accuracy as
>>25 rpm at room temp....
>>
>><http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf>http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf
>>
>>
>>The link above is to the TSO and also to SAE AS404A
>>
>>This SAE $$ document is now at rev. C - but, like the text below
>>says, no post-manufacture stuff is probably in rev C....
>>
>>I seem to remember the 150 rpm from one of the FAA Mechanics AC
>>books, but I can't presently find it - but it was not a FAR --
>>
>>gil A
>>
>>-------------------- AC 20-37D text extract -------------
>>
>>8. TACHOMETER INSPECTION.
>>Due to the exceptionally high stresses that may be generated by
>>particular propeller/engine
>>combinations at certain engine revolutions per minute (RPM), many
>>propeller and aircraft
>>manufacturers have established areas of RPM restrictions and other
>>restrictions on maximum
>>RPM for some models. Some RPM limits have never exceed values as
>>close as 3 percent of the
>>maximum RPM permitted, and a slow-running tachometer can cause an
>>engine to run past the
>>maximum RPM limits. Since there are no post-manufacture accuracy
>>requirements for engine
>>tachometers, tachometer inaccuracy could be a direct cause of
>>propeller failure, excessive
>>vibration, or unscheduled maintenance. Tachometer accuracy should
>>always be checked during
>>normal maintenance intervals or sooner if indicators such as
>>excessive vibration or aircraft
>>performance changes might indicate inaccurate RPM readings.
>>
>>---------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>At 12:01 AM 9/9/2009, <mailto:teamgrumman@aol.com>teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
>> >Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded
>> and >must be replaced if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong? I
>> can't >find it if there is one.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>TeamGrumman-List Email Forum -
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
>>- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>><http://forums.matronics.com/>http://forums.matronics.com
>>- List Contribution Web Site -
>>-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Lincoln Skyways |
In regards to what, Gary? Grumman made a mighty fine line of canoes and even RVs
at one time.
Personally, I wouldn't worry about there being true make/model competition in your
area ... but I certainly wouldn't hesitate having them work on my plane when
the task is relatively generic such as replacing a failed magneto or starter
... not that I'd know anything about that! :-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262377#262377
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: oil filler door. |
I landed at College Park outside of DC in '85.? The line boy came out and said
"you have a hole in your cowl".? The oil check door was gone.? It was evident
that the hinge pin failed.? The FBO A&P and I fabricated a new door, which is
still on the plane.
Rich Harrison
N1632Romeo
Dog is my Co-Pilot
"Grumman"
-----Original Message-----
From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM
Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 12:06 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: oil filler door.
Lincoln is saying the oil filler door hinge (hinge is sloppy, it shuts and locks
tight but it's worn) is an airworthiness issue and wants to charge a seller
(customer of mine) $200 to fix it.
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