Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - Re: oil filler door. (Doug Ilg)
2. 05:42 AM - Re: Tach accuracy (flyv35b)
3. 05:44 AM - Re: oil filler door. (flyv35b)
4. 08:07 AM - Re: Tach accuracy (923te)
5. 09:17 AM - Re: Lincoln Skyways (teamgrumman@AOL.com)
6. 09:17 AM - Re: Tach accuracy (Gil Alexander)
7. 09:31 AM - Re: Lincoln Skyways (cwleach)
8. 07:17 PM - Re: Air Sea Rescue (Davie Alison)
9. 09:16 PM - Lincoln Skyways (GOLDPILOT@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: oil filler door. |
Rich,=0A=0AYou were lucky to have gotten good service at College Park in th
ose days.- The guy that ran that shop (a well-known local traffic reporte
r) ended up becoming notorious for bad business practices.- We got rid of
him in the-late 90s.- Since 9/11, of course, we have no real FBO at al
l.- Just fuel.- <sigh>=0A-=0ADoug Ilg=0AGrumman Tiger N74818, College
Park-Airport (KCGS), Maryland=0AChallenger II LSS (N641LG-reserved)-
- kit underway at Laurel Suburban (W18)=0A=0AFrom: "n32romeo@aol.com" <n32r
omeo@aol.com>=0A>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: oil filler door.=0A>=0A>=0A
>I landed at College Park outside of DC in '85.- The line boy came out an
d said "you have a hole in your cowl".- The oil check door was gone.- I
t was evident that the hinge pin failed.- The FBO A&P and I fabricated a
new door, which is still on the plane.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Tach accuracy |
I gave up on mechanical tachs years ago. If you really want to know what y
our RPM is (accurately) there is no substitute. If you want to evaluate pe
rformance changes or whether or not you have the prop pitched the way you w
ant it or not an electronic digital readout tach is essential. For instanc
e what improvement in static rpm and full throttle rpm do you get with the
addition of a Power Flow exhaust or HC pistons in a Cheetah. How does full
throttle rpm change with altitude and other similar questions you many wan
t answers to.
It amazes me sometimes that people don't mind spending $10K on a new Garmin
430W installation but they won't spend an extra $200 to buy an electronic
tach over a mechanical one!
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: Gil Alexander
To: n26390@aol.com ; teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy
Century Instruments IIRC - the problem is that they can't legally overhau
l it, they can just inspect and repaint the dial.
Something to do with not having the full data from Stewart Warner.
The speedometer shop fairies might do better....:^) gil A
At 06:01 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote:
Gil: Recently discovered that I have an Tach accuracy problem, was ref
erred to a shop in Houston. But, was warned about overhaul problems with n
umerous shops around the country..so, will probably go with a new mechanica
l Tach with a warranty. Who overhauled your Tach=3F
Thanks,
Roger
Roger Rucker
AA5A '78 HWO
-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:33 pm
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy
Yep... I sent my mechanical one for overhaul because it was about 125 r
pm out, It came back with the same error...:^)
The airpark pilots tell me that the local Tucson speedometer shop can r
e-calibrate it without telling the FAA, but I bought a digital one instead.
The old one went on e-bay for $50.... gil A
At 01:58 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote:
I couldn't find anything either. The buyer wants a new one not reali
zing it is probably 100 rpm wrong to begin with.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net >
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:29 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy
ink.net>
Gary,
I don't think so, since this came from
AC 20-37D AIRCRAFT METAL PROPELLER MAINTENANCE
on care of metal props - note the bit on no post-manufacture accuracy
.
It might be hidden in the SAE standard referenced by TSO C94 for tach
ometers, but the SAE has deemed it necessary to charge $$ for all of their
documents.
...but this really old FAA TSO gives the original 1954 accuracy as 25
rpm at room temp....
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory=5Fand=5FGuidance=5FLibrary/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307
e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf
The link above is to the TSO and also to SAE AS404A
This SAE $$ document is now at rev. C - but, like the text below says
, no post-manufacture stuff is probably in rev C....
I seem to remember the 150 rpm from one of the FAA Mechanics AC books
, but I can't presently find it - but it was not a FAR --
gil A
-------------------- AC 20-37D text extract -------------
8. TACHOMETER INSPECTION.
Due to the exceptionally high stresses that may be generated by parti
cular propeller/engine
combinations at certain engine revolutions per minute (RPM), many pro
peller and aircraft
manufacturers have established areas of RPM restrictions and other re
strictions on maximum
RPM for some models. Some RPM limits have never exceed values as clos
e as 3 percent of the
maximum RPM permitted, and a slow-running tachometer can cause an eng
ine to run past the
maximum RPM limits. Since there are no post-manufacture accuracy requ
irements for engine
tachometers, tachometer inaccuracy could be a direct cause of propell
er failure, excessive
vibration, or unscheduled maintenance. Tachometer accuracy should alw
ays be checked during
normal maintenance intervals or sooner if indicators such as excessiv
e vibration or aircraft
performance changes might indicate inaccurate RPM readings.
---------------------------
At 12:01 AM 9/9/2009, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
>Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded and
>must be replaced if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong=3F I can't >find it
if there is one.
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: oil filler door. |
How did it fit=3F The stock door is a slight compound curve as I recall, mak
ing it difficult to fabricate just cutting out of a flat sheet. You can al
ways use an English wheel, etc to help it along.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: n32romeo@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: oil filler door.
I landed at College Park outside of DC in '85. The line boy came out and
said =22you have a hole in your cowl=22. The oil check door was gone. It was
evident that the hinge pin failed. The FBO A&P and I fabricated a new doo
r, which is still on the plane.
Rich Harrison
N1632Romeo
Dog is my Co-Pilot
=22Grumman=22
-----Original Message-----
From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 12:06 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: oil filler door.
Lincoln is saying the oil filler door hinge (hinge is sloppy, it shuts an
d locks tight but it's worn) is an airworthiness issue and wants to charge
a seller (customer of mine) $200 to fix it.
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tach accuracy |
Hi Gil,
Just curious what you used to check the accuracy of your tach?
ned
----- Original Message -----
From: Gil Alexander
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy
Yep... I sent my mechanical one for overhaul because it was about 125
rpm out, It came back with the same error...:^)
The airpark pilots tell me that the local Tucson speedometer shop can
re-calibrate it without telling the FAA, but I bought a digital one
instead.
The old one went on e-bay for $50.... gil A
At 01:58 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote:
I couldn't find anything either. The buyer wants a new one not
realizing it is probably 100 rpm wrong to begin with.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:29 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy
<gilalex@earthlink.net>
Gary,
I don't think so, since this came from
AC 20-37D AIRCRAFT METAL PROPELLER MAINTENANCE
on care of metal props - note the bit on no post-manufacture
accuracy.
It might be hidden in the SAE standard referenced by TSO C94 for
tachometers, but the SAE has deemed it necessary to charge $$ for all of
their documents.
...but this really old FAA TSO gives the original 1954 accuracy as
25 rpm at room temp....
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb
1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf
The link above is to the TSO and also to SAE AS404A
This SAE $$ document is now at rev. C - but, like the text below
says, no post-manufacture stuff is probably in rev C....
I seem to remember the 150 rpm from one of the FAA Mechanics AC
books, but I can't presently find it - but it was not a FAR --
gil A
-------------------- AC 20-37D text extract -------------
8. TACHOMETER INSPECTION.
Due to the exceptionally high stresses that may be generated by
particular propeller/engine
combinations at certain engine revolutions per minute (RPM), many
propeller and aircraft
manufacturers have established areas of RPM restrictions and other
restrictions on maximum
RPM for some models. Some RPM limits have never exceed values as
close as 3 percent of the
maximum RPM permitted, and a slow-running tachometer can cause an
engine to run past the
maximum RPM limits. Since there are no post-manufacture accuracy
requirements for engine
tachometers, tachometer inaccuracy could be a direct cause of
propeller failure, excessive
vibration, or unscheduled maintenance. Tachometer accuracy should
always be checked during
normal maintenance intervals or sooner if indicators such as
excessive vibration or aircraft
performance changes might indicate inaccurate RPM readings.
---------------------------
At 12:01 AM 9/9/2009, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
>Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded and
>must be replaced if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong? I can't >find
it if there is one.
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lincoln Skyways |
Corl,?
The things they told the buyer and the seller were airworthy issues that NEEDED
to be completed before it was airworthy, were largely cosmetic. ?Many items,
such as needing to replace the Clevis pin on the bottom of the master cylinders
because there was too much play in them were bullshit. ?You CAN'T take out the
play or the pivot won't work correctly. ?Without removing the pin, there is
no way of knowing IF it needs to be replaced. ?They wanted nearly $450 to replace
the mechanical tach. ?They claimed the hoses NEEDED to be marked with torque
seal to be legal. ?That's bullshit too. ?Appendix D just says to make sure
the hoses are tight. ?If they are not leaking, they are tight. Bottom line is,
they are trying to gouge the buyer and the seller. ?What they wrote up as airworthy
and claim needs to be done to make the plane airworthy tells me they have
a tendency to stretch the truth. ?Either that, or they don't know what AIRWORTHY
means.
Example: the vernier mixture cable they claim needs to be replaced because the
owner didn't send down the paperwork. ?OK. ?I'll buy that. ?BUT, the price to
replace the cable was $450. ?Fletcher sells the stock one for $50. ?
Example: ?The brake lines have some corrosion on them. ?Most brake lines do. ?The
problem is, Skyways told the buyer they NEED to be replaced because they MIGHT
leak. ?OK. ?Fair enough. ?Then, let's replace the engine too because it MIGHT
quit. ?
Example: ?Skyways called the nose strut a nose 'spring' and said because the rock
chips had some rust in them that the nose 'spring' was unairworthy and needed
to be repainted before they signed it off as airworthy.
Shall I go on?
Greg Ketell (?) had a similar problem when his plane was on lease back in Livermore.
?Going back through the logs I was amazed to find stuff that would never
need replacement/service being repaired or replaced.
In the last 25 years of working on Grummans, I've never done unnecessary maintenance
just to make a few bucks. ?Maybe I'll start finding a lot of cowlings with
too many cracks to be airworthy.
-----Original Message-----
From: cwleach <corl@aya.org>
Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 9:26 pm
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Lincoln Skyways
In regards to what, Gary? Grumman made a mighty fine line of canoes and even RVs
at one time.
Personally, I wouldn't worry about there being true make/model competition in
your area ... but I certainly wouldn't hesitate having them work on my plane
when the task is relatively generic such as replacing a failed magneto or
starter ... not that I'd know anything about that! :-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262377#262377
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Tach accuracy |
Hi Ned,
I used a borrowed digital model rpm gauge - worked great. Just
pointed it forward from the cockpit when in flight.
They can be checked for accuracy against the 60/120 Hz component of
mains driven lights.
Cheap too --
http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/towp1221.html
It will even work on three bladed props....:^)
gil A
At 08:05 AM 9/10/2009, you wrote:
>Hi Gil,
>
>Just curious what you used to check the accuracy of your tach?
>
>ned
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:gilalex@earthlink.net>Gil Alexander
>To: <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 7:33 PM
>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy
>
>Yep... I sent my mechanical one for overhaul because it was about
>125 rpm out, It came back with the same error...:^)
>
>The airpark pilots tell me that the local Tucson speedometer shop
>can re-calibrate it without telling the FAA, but I bought a digital
>one instead.
>
>The old one went on e-bay for $50.... gil A
>
>At 01:58 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote:
>>I couldn't find anything either. The buyer wants a new one not
>>realizing it is probably 100 rpm wrong to begin with.
><snipped>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Lincoln Skyways |
Was there a specific incident that triggered this thread? I know the folks at Lincoln
Skyways fairly well and would be happy to obtain the details ....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262430#262430
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Air Sea Rescue |
I've jumped out of Thai C-130s in Korat and Udon Thani.
--- On Wed, 9/9/09, teamgrumman@aol.com <teamgrumman@aol.com> wrote:
> I forgot to add, I was stationed with the
> 56th Air Rescue and Recovery Sqdn and later the 40th ARRS in
> Korat and NKP Thailand.
>
Message 9
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John Coze has used them for quite a while for his 260 HP Grumman. He
likes their work. Check with him. He is based at LHM.
_Johncgrumm@aol.com_ (mailto:Johncgrumm@aol.com)
David
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