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1. 11:08 AM - Re: (teamgrumman@AOL.COM)
2. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: (flyv35b)
Message 1
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I have read that the surface preparation for the metal-to-metal bonding is the
most critical part in making it hold. ?Since I was able to seal off the back and
do the alodining the correct way, for $300, why not? ?The guys doing the alodining
had a lot of buckets of various solutions, acids, washes, and stuff. ?The
whole process only took about an hour. ?
Is there a market for a tail dragger? ?Probably not. ?It isn't likely there are
10% of the Grumman community that have tail-wheel endorsements. ?I want a tail-dragger;
if only to see how much faster it is. ?Is it worth it for a couple
of knots? no. ?But, if I can squeeze 10 knots out of it, to me that's worth it.
?
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:04 pm
Subject: Re:
Your new structure looks very impressive!??
Looks like a bridge compared to the original.? You even formed a joggle at
the bottom for a recess for the lower longeron angle, nice.? Why is the
alodine so critical that you have to submerge the area?? I know you get a
better coating that way but is it really necessary?
?
Do you think there is a market for a taildragger
Tiger?? Most Tiger owners have never flown a taildragger and probably
wouldn't want one.? Would there be a whole new market, or just the ability
to get rid of a significant amount of drag and make the plane
faster??? How long are you going to be working on this plane??
Maybe I'll fly down and see you.
?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From:
teamgrumman@aol.com
; michael@michaellyman.com
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:08
AM
Subject: Re:
Gary, I don't understand all the photos you
sent.? The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads
(honeycomb?).? Are they temporary or permanent?? The other photos
show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the original angles.? They
appear to be far stronger than the original.? What's the difference
between the two configurations?
?
Cliff
-------------------------------------
In order to get a MIL spec alodining on the inside of the
fuselage, I needed to create a tank in the back for the alodinging process.
?Doing the parts themselves is easy. ?Getting the inside of the
fuselage alodined correctly isn't. ?
I also designed, and had approved, new braces. ?It doesn't make
sense to replace the weak link with the same weak link. ?The new vertical
braces have a 25% wider attaching surface (just in case the bond is weaker)
and a return along the edge that I see bent in so many planes. ?The
horizontal brace is built like a bridge truss. ?The intention here was to
transfer the torsional loads from one side of the fuselage to the other.
?Share the load if you will. ?The area of contact between the
horizontal and vertical braces is about 400% greater. ?See new
pics.
I talked to an engineer (who has done tail wheel conversions) about a
tail wheel Tiger. ?If I do go ahead with a tail wheel (you heard it here
first) I have considered bonding 1/8 inch honeycomb to the sides of that aft
section to beef up the structure. ?The floor would get 1/4 inch.
?We'll see what is needed first. ?I have a spare fuselage to drop .
. . .?
PS, that last pic is of the tail tie down repair. ?It used 0.030
aluminum riveted to the inside on a portion of skin only 0.025 thick.
?I'll need to repair that while I'm in there.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: flyv35b
<flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 8,
2009 6:42 am
Subject: Re:
Gary, I don't understand all the photos you
sent.? The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads
(honeycomb?).? Are they temporary or permanent?? The other photos
show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the original angles.? They
appear to be far stronger than the original.? What's the difference
between the two configurations?
?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From:
teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:10
AM
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fighting spam.
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Message 2
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Didn't the factory build a retractable gear Tiger. Anyone know how much th
at increased the speed. I doubt if you would gain 10 kts, but maybe.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: flyv35b@minetfiber.com ; teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 10:55 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re:
I have read that the surface preparation for the metal-to-metal bonding i
s the most critical part in making it hold. Since I was able to seal off t
he back and do the alodining the correct way, for $300, why not=3F The guys
doing the alodining had a lot of buckets of various solutions, acids, washe
s, and stuff. The whole process only took about an hour.
Is there a market for a tail dragger=3F Probably not. It isn't likely the
re are 10% of the Grumman community that have tail-wheel endorsements. I w
ant a tail-dragger; if only to see how much faster it is. Is it worth it f
or a couple of knots=3F no. But, if I can squeeze 10 knots out of it, to me
that's worth it.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
To: teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:04 pm
Subject: Re:
Your new structure looks very impressive! Looks like a bridge compared
to the original. You even formed a joggle at the bottom for a recess for t
he lower longeron angle, nice. Why is the alodine so critical that you hav
e to submerge the area=3F I know you get a better coating that way but is it
really necessary=3F
Do you think there is a market for a taildragger Tiger=3F Most Tiger owner
s have never flown a taildragger and probably wouldn't want one. Would the
re be a whole new market, or just the ability to get rid of a significant a
mount of drag and make the plane faster=3F How long are you going to be wor
king on this plane=3F Maybe I'll fly down and see you.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: flyv35b@minetfiber.com ; teamgrumman-list@matronics.com ; michael@m
ichaellyman.com
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:08 AM
Subject: Re:
Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent. The first two appear
to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb=3F). Are they temporary or permanent
=3F The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the origina
l angles. They appear to be far stronger than the original. What's the di
fference between the two configurations=3F
Cliff
-------------------------------------
In order to get a MIL spec alodining on the inside of the fuselage, I n
eeded to create a tank in the back for the alodinging process. Doing the p
arts themselves is easy. Getting the inside of the fuselage alodined corre
ctly isn't.
I also designed, and had approved, new braces. It doesn't make sense t
o replace the weak link with the same weak link. The new vertical braces h
ave a 25% wider attaching surface (just in case the bond is weaker) and a r
eturn along the edge that I see bent in so many planes. The horizontal bra
ce is built like a bridge truss. The intention here was to transfer the to
rsional loads from one side of the fuselage to the other. Share the load i
f you will. The area of contact between the horizontal and vertical braces
is about 400% greater. See new pics.
I talked to an engineer (who has done tail wheel conversions) about a t
ail wheel Tiger. If I do go ahead with a tail wheel (you heard it here fir
st) I have considered bonding 1/8 inch honeycomb to the sides of that aft s
ection to beef up the structure. The floor would get 1/4 inch. We'll see
what is needed first. I have a spare fuselage to drop . . . .
PS, that last pic is of the tail tie down repair. It used 0.030 alumin
um riveted to the inside on a portion of skin only 0.025 thick. I'll need
to repair that while I'm in there.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
To: teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:42 am
Subject: Re:
Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent. The first two appear
to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb=3F). Are they temporary or permanent
=3F The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the origina
l angles. They appear to be far stronger than the original. What's the di
fference between the two configurations=3F
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: flyv35b@minetfiber.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:10 AM
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