---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/10/09: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:08 AM - Re: (teamgrumman@AOL.COM) 2. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: (flyv35b) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:47 AM PST US Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM I have read that the surface preparation for the metal-to-metal bonding is the most critical part in making it hold. ?Since I was able to seal off the back and do the alodining the correct way, for $300, why not? ?The guys doing the alodining had a lot of buckets of various solutions, acids, washes, and stuff. ?The whole process only took about an hour. ? Is there a market for a tail dragger? ?Probably not. ?It isn't likely there are 10% of the Grumman community that have tail-wheel endorsements. ?I want a tail-dragger; if only to see how much faster it is. ?Is it worth it for a couple of knots? no. ?But, if I can squeeze 10 knots out of it, to me that's worth it. ? Gary -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:04 pm Subject: Re: Your new structure looks very impressive!?? Looks like a bridge compared to the original.? You even formed a joggle at the bottom for a recess for the lower longeron angle, nice.? Why is the alodine so critical that you have to submerge the area?? I know you get a better coating that way but is it really necessary? ? Do you think there is a market for a taildragger Tiger?? Most Tiger owners have never flown a taildragger and probably wouldn't want one.? Would there be a whole new market, or just the ability to get rid of a significant amount of drag and make the plane faster??? How long are you going to be working on this plane?? Maybe I'll fly down and see you. ? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com ; michael@michaellyman.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: Re: Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent.? The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb?).? Are they temporary or permanent?? The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the original angles.? They appear to be far stronger than the original.? What's the difference between the two configurations? ? Cliff ------------------------------------- In order to get a MIL spec alodining on the inside of the fuselage, I needed to create a tank in the back for the alodinging process. ?Doing the parts themselves is easy. ?Getting the inside of the fuselage alodined correctly isn't. ? I also designed, and had approved, new braces. ?It doesn't make sense to replace the weak link with the same weak link. ?The new vertical braces have a 25% wider attaching surface (just in case the bond is weaker) and a return along the edge that I see bent in so many planes. ?The horizontal brace is built like a bridge truss. ?The intention here was to transfer the torsional loads from one side of the fuselage to the other. ?Share the load if you will. ?The area of contact between the horizontal and vertical braces is about 400% greater. ?See new pics. I talked to an engineer (who has done tail wheel conversions) about a tail wheel Tiger. ?If I do go ahead with a tail wheel (you heard it here first) I have considered bonding 1/8 inch honeycomb to the sides of that aft section to beef up the structure. ?The floor would get 1/4 inch. ?We'll see what is needed first. ?I have a spare fuselage to drop . . . .? PS, that last pic is of the tail tie down repair. ?It used 0.030 aluminum riveted to the inside on a portion of skin only 0.025 thick. ?I'll need to repair that while I'm in there. Gary -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:42 am Subject: Re: Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent.? The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb?).? Are they temporary or permanent?? The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the original angles.? They appear to be far stronger than the original.? What's the difference between the two configurations? ? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:10 AM We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 75305 of my spam emails to date. The Professional version does not have this message. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:39 PM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Didn't the factory build a retractable gear Tiger. Anyone know how much th at increased the speed. I doubt if you would gain 10 kts, but maybe. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com To: flyv35b@minetfiber.com ; teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: I have read that the surface preparation for the metal-to-metal bonding i s the most critical part in making it hold. Since I was able to seal off t he back and do the alodining the correct way, for $300, why not=3F The guys doing the alodining had a lot of buckets of various solutions, acids, washe s, and stuff. The whole process only took about an hour. Is there a market for a tail dragger=3F Probably not. It isn't likely the re are 10% of the Grumman community that have tail-wheel endorsements. I w ant a tail-dragger; if only to see how much faster it is. Is it worth it f or a couple of knots=3F no. But, if I can squeeze 10 knots out of it, to me that's worth it. Gary -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b To: teamgrumman@aol.com Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:04 pm Subject: Re: Your new structure looks very impressive! Looks like a bridge compared to the original. You even formed a joggle at the bottom for a recess for t he lower longeron angle, nice. Why is the alodine so critical that you hav e to submerge the area=3F I know you get a better coating that way but is it really necessary=3F Do you think there is a market for a taildragger Tiger=3F Most Tiger owner s have never flown a taildragger and probably wouldn't want one. Would the re be a whole new market, or just the ability to get rid of a significant a mount of drag and make the plane faster=3F How long are you going to be wor king on this plane=3F Maybe I'll fly down and see you. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com To: flyv35b@minetfiber.com ; teamgrumman-list@matronics.com ; michael@m ichaellyman.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: Re: Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent. The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb=3F). Are they temporary or permanent =3F The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the origina l angles. They appear to be far stronger than the original. What's the di fference between the two configurations=3F Cliff ------------------------------------- In order to get a MIL spec alodining on the inside of the fuselage, I n eeded to create a tank in the back for the alodinging process. Doing the p arts themselves is easy. Getting the inside of the fuselage alodined corre ctly isn't. I also designed, and had approved, new braces. It doesn't make sense t o replace the weak link with the same weak link. The new vertical braces h ave a 25% wider attaching surface (just in case the bond is weaker) and a r eturn along the edge that I see bent in so many planes. The horizontal bra ce is built like a bridge truss. The intention here was to transfer the to rsional loads from one side of the fuselage to the other. Share the load i f you will. The area of contact between the horizontal and vertical braces is about 400% greater. See new pics. I talked to an engineer (who has done tail wheel conversions) about a t ail wheel Tiger. If I do go ahead with a tail wheel (you heard it here fir st) I have considered bonding 1/8 inch honeycomb to the sides of that aft s ection to beef up the structure. The floor would get 1/4 inch. We'll see what is needed first. I have a spare fuselage to drop . . . . PS, that last pic is of the tail tie down repair. It used 0.030 alumin um riveted to the inside on a portion of skin only 0.025 thick. I'll need to repair that while I'm in there. Gary -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b To: teamgrumman@aol.com Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:42 am Subject: Re: Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent. The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb=3F). Are they temporary or permanent =3F The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the origina l angles. They appear to be far stronger than the original. What's the di fference between the two configurations=3F Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com To: flyv35b@minetfiber.com Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:10 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. 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