---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/12/09: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:22 AM - Re: Overlays (Richard Mutzman) 2. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Overlays (teamgrumman@aol.com) 3. 02:39 PM - Metal to Metal bonding (teamgrumman@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:39 AM PST US From: Richard Mutzman Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Overlays Gary=2C Got the message on the overlay and eyebrow. I am familiar with the Kokaska overlay=2C but what is different about the g auge openings. Are you referring to the engine gauges and the metal betwee n the individual gauges? Richard Mutzman N399RM Dayton=2C OH (Home of AYA 2010) =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.=0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:49:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Overlays From: teamgrumman@aol.com my overlay has individual openings for the gauges. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Mutzman Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:22 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Overlays Gary, ? Got the message on the overlay and eyebrow. ? I am familiar with the Kokaska overlay, but what is different about the gauge openings.? Are you referring to the engine gauges and the metal between the individual gauges? Richard Mutzman N399RM Dayton, OH (Home of AYA 2010) Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:48 PM PST US Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Metal to Metal bonding From: teamgrumman@aol.com I was lucky enough, last night, to get an email and learn that alodining the aft end for M2M bonding was a waste of time because it won't work. ?The argument was that only anodizing will work. ?Anodizing is out of the question. ?So, last night I agonized and spent 5 hours on the internet learning about all sorts of surfaces preparations for M2M bonding. ? I've included the .pdf file for the Hysol 9330. ?This is the adhesive I chose for bonding the horizontal braces. ?On the second page, there is a heading that starts out ... Bond Strength Performance Tensile Lap Shear Strength Tensile lap shear strength tested per ASTM D1002 after curing as shown below. Adherends are 2024-T3 Alclad aluminum treated with chromic acid etch. Clearly, chromic acid etch is not anodizing. Read the bond strengths of the various surface preparations. ?The bond strength is 5,000 psi when cured at 77 degrees for 7 days. ?The worse case is MEK wipe only (3900 psi). ?The reason I made the vertical braces 3/8 inches wider was to compensate for any reduction is bonding. ?The thought being that, at the low end, MEK wipe = 3900 psi shear strength, the wider surface would still be stronger than the original bonded vertical brace. ? This morning I talked to a structural engineer at Henkel, the supplier of the Hysol 9330, and was told that the process I did should be OK. ?"Should" ?She told me that they haven't done a lot of testing with Alodine because there isn't much call for it. ?BUT, she told me their results show the bond to be a lot better than with a straight chromic acid etch. ?Not as strong as the 5700 psi with anodizing, but a lot stronger than an MEK wipe. ? I also found where B-52s, F-22s, F-16s and the like are being field repaired with Hysol 9330 using a fairly new surface preparation process, developed by Boeing, called Sol-Gen. ?I have a call into a Boeing engineer regarding that for use in our planes. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.