Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:45 AM - Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/14/09 (David White)
2. 09:06 PM - Re: AG5B wiring question (teamgrumman@aol.com)
3. 09:10 PM - 210 hp O360 @ 2715 rpm (teamgrumman@AOL.COM)
4. 09:11 PM - Re: AG5B wiring question (teamgrumman@AOL.COM)
5. 09:33 PM - Project X Tiger (teamgrumman@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/14/09 |
you-a serious voltage drop,,,- -
--- On Tue, 12/15/09, TeamGrumman-List Digest Server <teamgrumman-list@matr
onics.com> wrote:
From: TeamGrumman-List Digest Server <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Subject: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/14/09
*
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- ---1. 07:28 PM - AG5B wiring question- (teamgrumman@AOL.COM)
________________________________- Message 1- __________________________
___________
Time: 07:28:30 PM PST US
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B wiring question
From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM
I've got a 92 AG5B in my hangar for a new engine.- While at it, I decided
to clean up the wiring.- I hate sloppy wiring.- This is one of those AG
s
with the grounds on the vacuum filter.- Go figure that one.- In the pas
t,
I've moved those grounds to the engine mount (the lug on the back).- I've
done that to about 6 planes so far.- Never had a problem.-
While at the FWF restoration, I decided to change the battery & starter re
lays.- Funny thing is, I can't get the relays to work.- Rather than ins
tal
ling them the way they came from the factory, I mounted them with the cap
down as shown in the 'preferred mounting' diagram that came with the rela
ys.- Other than that, and the positive not going to big terminal marked "
B
AT" on the battery relay (the diagram doesn't show that it matters, just
need to use the big terminal,) everything is connected the way it came of
f the old relays.
Here is the setup:-
(1) No engine or engine mount.-
(2) Ground wire attached to the upper right (airframe) engine mount with
an engine mount bolt.
- ---- then attached to the neg side of the battery.-
(3) Power cable (positive) from battery to battery relay.
(4) Only 5 (or so) volts measured at the other engine mounts.
(5) Connected a separate ground to the bundle of grounds that went to the
vacuum pump and now I get 24 (or so) volts at the other engine mounts.
It's almost as though the grounds in the cabin depend on the ground to th
e vacuum filter.-
(6) Still no action on the master (battery) relay.
(7) Ran a jumper from the negative side of the battery to the relay contac
t and the relay energizes . . .- except . . .- there is only 5 volts on
th
e output side of the relay.-
I gave up for tonight.
I could really use a wiring diagram for this plane.- So far, the current
flow logic isn't making sense.- Anyone know what the cannon plug code is?
- Back in the old days, I could read the number on the wire and look it u
p
.- All of these wires are covered with expando sleeve.-
Help.- Anyone.
le, List Admin.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AG5B wiring question |
I must be the only one on this list.
OK, so, I'll entertain myself. . . . . now . . . . where's the lube?
So, last night, while watching tv, I got to wondering if there might be a
right or wrong way to hook up the power and ground to the relay contacts
which energize the relay. You know, like when you made an electro magnet
out of a nail and wire? Does it matter which way the current flows to ma
ke North and South . . . that sort of thing. So, today, I changed the po
wer and ground sources and the relay energized just fine. I have 27 volts
everywhere except on the output big terminal on the relay. Hence, no vol
tage to the system buss. The output measures in the neighborhood of 3 to
5 volts. so . . . . . tomorrow, I'll mount the relays as they were, ups
ide down compared the the preferred mounting diagram that came with the re
lay, and see what happens.
Last Friday, I got the engine mount back from the powder coater (and no,
Virginia, powder coating will not hide a crack. that is an old wives tai
l. American Champion has been powder coating their entire steel tube fuse
lages for 20 years.) I'll finish detailing the engine mounts on the fusel
age and install the engine mount.
Then, finish the wiring of all the grounds to the engine mount. Then see
what happens. Assuming, of course, that the relay still doesn't work onc
e I mount it right side up. I may have Garner send another one just for
giggles.
Then, once the wiring is all hooked up, install Larry's 210 hp O360.
-----Original Message-----
From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM
Sent: Mon, Dec 14, 2009 7:26 pm
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B wiring question
I've got a 92 AG5B in my hangar for a new engine. While at it, I decided
to clean up the wiring. I hate sloppy wiring. This is one of those AGs
with the grounds on the vacuum filter. Go figure that one. In the past,
I've moved those grounds to the engine mount (the lug on the back). I've
done that to about 6 planes so far. Never had a problem.
While at the FWF restoration, I decided to change the battery & starter re
lays. Funny thing is, I can't get the relays to work. Rather than instal
ling them the way they came from the factory, I mounted them with the cap
down as shown in the 'preferred mounting' diagram that came with the rela
ys. Other than that, and the positive not going to big terminal marked "B
AT" on the battery relay (the diagram doesn't show that it matters, just
need to use the big terminal,) everything is connected the way it came of
f the old relays.
Here is the setup:
(1) No engine or engine mount.
(2) Ground wire attached to the upper right (airframe) engine mount with
an engine mount bolt.
- then attached to the neg side of the battery.
(3) Power cable (positive) from battery to battery relay.
(4) Only 5 (or so) volts measured at the other engine mounts.
(5) Connected a separate ground to the bundle of grounds that went to the
vacuum pump and now I get 24 (or so) volts at the other engine mounts.
It's almost as though the grounds in the cabin depend on the ground to th
e vacuum filter.
(6) Still no action on the master (battery) relay.
(7) Ran a jumper from the negative side of the battery to the relay contac
t and the relay energizes . . . except . . . there is only 5 volts on th
e output side of the relay.
I gave up for tonight.
I could really use a wiring diagram for this plane. So far, the current
flow logic isn't making sense. Anyone know what the cannon plug code is?
Back in the old days, I could read the number on the wire and look it up
. All of these wires are covered with expando sleeve.
Help. Anyone.
========================
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Message 3
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| Subject: | 210 hp O360 @ 2715 rpm |
Did that get your attention?
Stock pistons too.
One thing about it, Ken builds one shit-hot engine. His dyno guy told me
they saw 217 hp on one pull but couldn't repeat it. AND . . . that was
at full rich. That was NOT, I repeat, NOT, 210 hp leaned to peak hp.
Have I mentioned the 1991 Project X Tiger????
No?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: AG5B wiring question |
Too bad Barry isn't on this list. He'd know.
I must be the only one on this list.
OK, so, I'll entertain myself. . . . . now . . . . where's the lube?
So, last night, while watching tv, I got to wondering if there might be a
right or wrong way to hook up the power and ground to the relay contacts
which energize the relay. You know, like when you made an electro magnet
out of a nail and wire? Does it matter which way the current flows to ma
ke North and South . . . that sort of thing. So, today, I changed the po
wer and ground sources and the relay energized just fine. I have 27 volts
everywhere except on the output big terminal on the relay. Hence, no vol
tage to the system buss. The output measures in the neighborhood of 3 to
5 volts. so . . . . . tomorrow, I'll mount the relays as they were, ups
ide down compared the the preferred mounting diagram that came with the re
lay, and see what happens.
Last Friday, I got the engine mount back from the powder coater (and no,
Virginia, powder coating will not hide a crack. that is an old wives tai
l. American Champion has been powder coating their entire steel tube fuse
lages for 20 years.) I'll finish detailing the engine mounts on the fusel
age and install the engine mount.
Then, finish the wiring of all the grounds to the engine mount. Then see
what happens. Assuming, of course, that the relay still doesn't work onc
e I mount it right side up. I may have Garner send another one just for
giggles.
Then, once the wiring is all hooked up, install Larry's 210 hp O360.
-----Original Message-----
From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM
Sent: Mon, Dec 14, 2009 7:26 pm
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B wiring question
I've got a 92 AG5B in my hangar for a new engine. While at it, I decided
to clean up the wiring. I hate sloppy wiring. This is one of those AGs
with the grounds on the vacuum filter. Go figure that one. In the past,
I've moved those grounds to the engine mount (the lug on the back). I've
done that to about 6 planes so far. Never had a problem.
While at the FWF restoration, I decided to change the battery & starter re
lays. Funny thing is, I can't get the relays to work. Rather than instal
ling them the way they came from the factory, I mounted them with the cap
down as shown in the 'preferred mounting' diagram that came with the rela
ys. Other than that, and the positive not going to big terminal marked "B
AT" on the battery relay (the diagram doesn't show that it matters, just
need to use the big terminal,) everything is connected the way it came of
f the old relays.
Here is the setup:
(1) No engine or engine mount.
(2) Ground wire attached to the upper right (airframe) engine mount with
an engine mount bolt.
- then attached to the neg side of the battery.
(3) Power cable (positive) from battery to battery relay.
(4) Only 5 (or so) volts measured at the other engine mounts.
(5) Connected a separate ground to the bundle of grounds that went to the
vacuum pump and now I get 24 (or so) volts at the other engine mounts.
It's almost as though the grounds in the cabin depend on the ground to th
e vacuum filter.
(6) Still no action on the master (battery) relay.
(7) Ran a jumper from the negative side of the battery to the relay contac
t and the relay energizes . . . except . . . there is only 5 volts on th
e output side of the relay.
I gave up for tonight.
I could really use a wiring diagram for this plane. So far, the current
flow logic isn't making sense. Anyone know what the cannon plug code is?
Back in the old days, I could read the number on the wire and look it up
. All of these wires are covered with expando sleeve.
Help. Anyone.
========================
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ric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
thelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
========================
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ttp://forums.matronics.com
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Message 5
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(1) As everyone knows, the air inlet to the carb (via two air boxes) on th
e AG5B Tiger leaves a LOT to be desired. In side-by-side testing (on seve
ral occasions), one AG5B and the other an AA5B, the AG5B will have up to
1 inch of manifold pressure LESS than an AA5B. SO, the first project is
to design a better inlet and air-filter box to get back at least some of
the lost pressure and, at the same time, make it easier to remove and rep
lace the cowling. Wrestling the cowling off of an AG is a pain in the ass
. Between the tail-pipe sticking through the cowling and the air box gett
ing hung up on the exhaust system, it's a wonder it ever comes off.
(2) Then, the Jaguar cowling onto the AG with a Power Flow. Once the inle
t issue is solved the rest is a cake walk. So, Ned, your wait will be ove
r.
(3) Next, put the stock cowling and exhaust back onto Project X . . . .
AND . . . drum roll . . . . put an IO360-B1B into a Tiger. Not just an
y -B1B either. Ken has offered to help get 10:1 pistons certified at a de
rated RPM to keep the peak hp down to 189 hp. He estimates about 40 more
usable hp at 2200 rpm. Climb should bring a smile to any face.
(4) Power Flow exhaust onto the IO360-B1B.
(5) Then, a Jaguar cowling onto the AG with the IO360-B1B.
(6) Wheel pants. I already have some prototypes being built. None of thi
s RV-10 stuff either. Those wheel pants just look wrong. My plane will
be wearing a new nose wheel pant shortly to see if it's feasible to use
existing mounting hardware.
(7) I've hired a DER who got the Texas Tail Dragger STC. 'nuf said.
Now, if I can get this goddamn Kia to start, I'll have time to work on Lar
ry's plane.
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