---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/15/09: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:45 AM - Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/14/09 (David White) 2. 09:06 PM - Re: AG5B wiring question (teamgrumman@aol.com) 3. 09:10 PM - 210 hp O360 @ 2715 rpm (teamgrumman@AOL.COM) 4. 09:11 PM - Re: AG5B wiring question (teamgrumman@AOL.COM) 5. 09:33 PM - Project X Tiger (teamgrumman@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:06 AM PST US From: David White Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/14/09 you-a serious voltage drop,,,- - --- On Tue, 12/15/09, TeamGrumman-List Digest Server wrote: From: TeamGrumman-List Digest Server Subject: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/14/09 * ======================== ---Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete TeamGrumman-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below.- The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation.- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the TeamGrumman-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: - - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View =html&Chapter 09-12-14&Archive=TeamGrumman Text Version: - - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View =txt&Chapter 09-12-14&Archive=TeamGrumman ====================== ---EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== - - - - ----------------------------------------------------- -------- - - - - - - - - - - - - ---TeamGrumman-List D igest Archive - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- - - - - - - - - - ---Total Messages Posted Mon 12/1 4/09: 1 - - - - ----------------------------------------------------- -------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- - ---1. 07:28 PM - AG5B wiring question- (teamgrumman@AOL.COM) ________________________________- Message 1- __________________________ ___________ Time: 07:28:30 PM PST US Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B wiring question From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM I've got a 92 AG5B in my hangar for a new engine.- While at it, I decided to clean up the wiring.- I hate sloppy wiring.- This is one of those AG s with the grounds on the vacuum filter.- Go figure that one.- In the pas t, I've moved those grounds to the engine mount (the lug on the back).- I've done that to about 6 planes so far.- Never had a problem.- While at the FWF restoration, I decided to change the battery & starter re lays.- Funny thing is, I can't get the relays to work.- Rather than ins tal ling them the way they came from the factory, I mounted them with the cap down as shown in the 'preferred mounting' diagram that came with the rela ys.- Other than that, and the positive not going to big terminal marked " B AT" on the battery relay (the diagram doesn't show that it matters, just need to use the big terminal,) everything is connected the way it came of f the old relays. Here is the setup:- (1) No engine or engine mount.- (2) Ground wire attached to the upper right (airframe) engine mount with an engine mount bolt. - ---- then attached to the neg side of the battery.- (3) Power cable (positive) from battery to battery relay. (4) Only 5 (or so) volts measured at the other engine mounts. (5) Connected a separate ground to the bundle of grounds that went to the vacuum pump and now I get 24 (or so) volts at the other engine mounts. It's almost as though the grounds in the cabin depend on the ground to th e vacuum filter.- (6) Still no action on the master (battery) relay. (7) Ran a jumper from the negative side of the battery to the relay contac t and the relay energizes . . .- except . . .- there is only 5 volts on th e output side of the relay.- I gave up for tonight. I could really use a wiring diagram for this plane.- So far, the current flow logic isn't making sense.- Anyone know what the cannon plug code is? - Back in the old days, I could read the number on the wire and look it u p .- All of these wires are covered with expando sleeve.- Help.- Anyone. le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B wiring question From: teamgrumman@aol.com I must be the only one on this list. OK, so, I'll entertain myself. . . . . now . . . . where's the lube? So, last night, while watching tv, I got to wondering if there might be a right or wrong way to hook up the power and ground to the relay contacts which energize the relay. You know, like when you made an electro magnet out of a nail and wire? Does it matter which way the current flows to ma ke North and South . . . that sort of thing. So, today, I changed the po wer and ground sources and the relay energized just fine. I have 27 volts everywhere except on the output big terminal on the relay. Hence, no vol tage to the system buss. The output measures in the neighborhood of 3 to 5 volts. so . . . . . tomorrow, I'll mount the relays as they were, ups ide down compared the the preferred mounting diagram that came with the re lay, and see what happens. Last Friday, I got the engine mount back from the powder coater (and no, Virginia, powder coating will not hide a crack. that is an old wives tai l. American Champion has been powder coating their entire steel tube fuse lages for 20 years.) I'll finish detailing the engine mounts on the fusel age and install the engine mount. Then, finish the wiring of all the grounds to the engine mount. Then see what happens. Assuming, of course, that the relay still doesn't work onc e I mount it right side up. I may have Garner send another one just for giggles. Then, once the wiring is all hooked up, install Larry's 210 hp O360. -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM Sent: Mon, Dec 14, 2009 7:26 pm Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B wiring question I've got a 92 AG5B in my hangar for a new engine. While at it, I decided to clean up the wiring. I hate sloppy wiring. This is one of those AGs with the grounds on the vacuum filter. Go figure that one. In the past, I've moved those grounds to the engine mount (the lug on the back). I've done that to about 6 planes so far. Never had a problem. While at the FWF restoration, I decided to change the battery & starter re lays. Funny thing is, I can't get the relays to work. Rather than instal ling them the way they came from the factory, I mounted them with the cap down as shown in the 'preferred mounting' diagram that came with the rela ys. Other than that, and the positive not going to big terminal marked "B AT" on the battery relay (the diagram doesn't show that it matters, just need to use the big terminal,) everything is connected the way it came of f the old relays. Here is the setup: (1) No engine or engine mount. (2) Ground wire attached to the upper right (airframe) engine mount with an engine mount bolt. - then attached to the neg side of the battery. (3) Power cable (positive) from battery to battery relay. (4) Only 5 (or so) volts measured at the other engine mounts. (5) Connected a separate ground to the bundle of grounds that went to the vacuum pump and now I get 24 (or so) volts at the other engine mounts. It's almost as though the grounds in the cabin depend on the ground to th e vacuum filter. (6) Still no action on the master (battery) relay. (7) Ran a jumper from the negative side of the battery to the relay contac t and the relay energizes . . . except . . . there is only 5 volts on th e output side of the relay. I gave up for tonight. I could really use a wiring diagram for this plane. So far, the current flow logic isn't making sense. Anyone know what the cannon plug code is? Back in the old days, I could read the number on the wire and look it up . All of these wires are covered with expando sleeve. Help. Anyone. ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:27 PM PST US Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 210 hp O360 @ 2715 rpm From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM Did that get your attention? Stock pistons too. One thing about it, Ken builds one shit-hot engine. His dyno guy told me they saw 217 hp on one pull but couldn't repeat it. AND . . . that was at full rich. That was NOT, I repeat, NOT, 210 hp leaned to peak hp. Have I mentioned the 1991 Project X Tiger???? No? ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B wiring question From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM Too bad Barry isn't on this list. He'd know. I must be the only one on this list. OK, so, I'll entertain myself. . . . . now . . . . where's the lube? So, last night, while watching tv, I got to wondering if there might be a right or wrong way to hook up the power and ground to the relay contacts which energize the relay. You know, like when you made an electro magnet out of a nail and wire? Does it matter which way the current flows to ma ke North and South . . . that sort of thing. So, today, I changed the po wer and ground sources and the relay energized just fine. I have 27 volts everywhere except on the output big terminal on the relay. Hence, no vol tage to the system buss. The output measures in the neighborhood of 3 to 5 volts. so . . . . . tomorrow, I'll mount the relays as they were, ups ide down compared the the preferred mounting diagram that came with the re lay, and see what happens. Last Friday, I got the engine mount back from the powder coater (and no, Virginia, powder coating will not hide a crack. that is an old wives tai l. American Champion has been powder coating their entire steel tube fuse lages for 20 years.) I'll finish detailing the engine mounts on the fusel age and install the engine mount. Then, finish the wiring of all the grounds to the engine mount. Then see what happens. Assuming, of course, that the relay still doesn't work onc e I mount it right side up. I may have Garner send another one just for giggles. Then, once the wiring is all hooked up, install Larry's 210 hp O360. -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM Sent: Mon, Dec 14, 2009 7:26 pm Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B wiring question I've got a 92 AG5B in my hangar for a new engine. While at it, I decided to clean up the wiring. I hate sloppy wiring. This is one of those AGs with the grounds on the vacuum filter. Go figure that one. In the past, I've moved those grounds to the engine mount (the lug on the back). I've done that to about 6 planes so far. Never had a problem. While at the FWF restoration, I decided to change the battery & starter re lays. Funny thing is, I can't get the relays to work. Rather than instal ling them the way they came from the factory, I mounted them with the cap down as shown in the 'preferred mounting' diagram that came with the rela ys. Other than that, and the positive not going to big terminal marked "B AT" on the battery relay (the diagram doesn't show that it matters, just need to use the big terminal,) everything is connected the way it came of f the old relays. Here is the setup: (1) No engine or engine mount. (2) Ground wire attached to the upper right (airframe) engine mount with an engine mount bolt. - then attached to the neg side of the battery. (3) Power cable (positive) from battery to battery relay. (4) Only 5 (or so) volts measured at the other engine mounts. (5) Connected a separate ground to the bundle of grounds that went to the vacuum pump and now I get 24 (or so) volts at the other engine mounts. It's almost as though the grounds in the cabin depend on the ground to th e vacuum filter. (6) Still no action on the master (battery) relay. (7) Ran a jumper from the negative side of the battery to the relay contac t and the relay energizes . . . except . . . there is only 5 volts on th e output side of the relay. I gave up for tonight. I could really use a wiring diagram for this plane. So far, the current flow logic isn't making sense. Anyone know what the cannon plug code is? Back in the old days, I could read the number on the wire and look it up . All of these wires are covered with expando sleeve. Help. Anyone. ======================== =========== ric.com">www.aeroelectric.com w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com thelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== =========== ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ======================== =========== ttp://forums.matronics.com ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:25 PM PST US Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Project X Tiger From: teamgrumman@aol.com (1) As everyone knows, the air inlet to the carb (via two air boxes) on th e AG5B Tiger leaves a LOT to be desired. In side-by-side testing (on seve ral occasions), one AG5B and the other an AA5B, the AG5B will have up to 1 inch of manifold pressure LESS than an AA5B. SO, the first project is to design a better inlet and air-filter box to get back at least some of the lost pressure and, at the same time, make it easier to remove and rep lace the cowling. Wrestling the cowling off of an AG is a pain in the ass . Between the tail-pipe sticking through the cowling and the air box gett ing hung up on the exhaust system, it's a wonder it ever comes off. (2) Then, the Jaguar cowling onto the AG with a Power Flow. Once the inle t issue is solved the rest is a cake walk. So, Ned, your wait will be ove r. (3) Next, put the stock cowling and exhaust back onto Project X . . . . AND . . . drum roll . . . . put an IO360-B1B into a Tiger. Not just an y -B1B either. Ken has offered to help get 10:1 pistons certified at a de rated RPM to keep the peak hp down to 189 hp. He estimates about 40 more usable hp at 2200 rpm. Climb should bring a smile to any face. (4) Power Flow exhaust onto the IO360-B1B. (5) Then, a Jaguar cowling onto the AG with the IO360-B1B. (6) Wheel pants. I already have some prototypes being built. None of thi s RV-10 stuff either. Those wheel pants just look wrong. My plane will be wearing a new nose wheel pant shortly to see if it's feasible to use existing mounting hardware. (7) I've hired a DER who got the Texas Tail Dragger STC. 'nuf said. Now, if I can get this goddamn Kia to start, I'll have time to work on Lar ry's plane. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.