Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:14 AM - Re: Project X Tiger (Ned Thomas)
2. 07:43 AM - Re: Project X Tiger (Linn Walters)
3. 07:43 AM - Re: Project X Tiger (Gil Alexander)
4. 10:45 AM - AG5B wiring question: SOLVED (teamgrumman@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Project X Tiger |
They claim to be the only source for TEL.
This raises my curiosity about the source for lead in Chinese
manufactured toys / paints.
Where does that lead come from?
Ned
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 17, 2009, at 9:34 PM, Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> >
>
> The TEL portion is an insignificant percentage of the chemical
> industry in that area.
>
> The Romans started it off with salt mining - hence all of the
> Cheshire towns ending in "---wich"
>
> The unions will keep the general chemical industry going as long as
> there is a market.... even if the Conservative party gains power
> next year....:^)
>
> The company web site statement on lead in aviation fuel is here....
>
> http://www.innospecinc.com/octane-additives.html
>
> gil A
>
> At 07:37 PM 12/17/2009, flyv35b wrote:
>> >
>>
>> And what's going to happen to their economy when we quit using
>> leaded fuel?
>>
>> Cliff
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gil Alexander" <gilalex@earthlink.net
>> >
>> To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 8:01 AM
>> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Project X Tiger
>>
>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> ....and I'd like to report that the only source of TEL (the lead
>>> in 100LL) in Ellsemere Port on the River Mersey was still in
>>> action about 3 weeks ago. As a kid, I could see the always
>>> burning waste gases flame from the refinery from across the river
>>> - it's still burning...
>>>
>>> I realized my wife had never been on the "Ferry across the Mersey"
>>> - which now a tourist boat trip around, and the southern end of
>>> the route was by the TEL factory, so I actually got a closer look
>>> this time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loyRYFUYg9g We were
>>> even on the same boat as the 1965 clip - the Woodvale, now renamed
>>> Snowdrop.
>>>
>>> Lead has been extracted from this Cheshire area since Roman times,
>>> and the area along this portion of the River Mersey and Manchester
>>> ship canal to Widnes/Runcorn is one of the centers of the UK
>>> chemical industry - think ICI (Imperial Chemical Industries) The
>>> chemical industry is the life blood of this area and is fully
>>> unionized.
>>>
>>> gil A
>>>
>>> At 07:41 AM 12/17/2009, you wrote:
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> I kind of noted that, but then I am older (a little) thn he is.
>>>> <G> He
>>>> was just making the point that 100LL will be around longer than
>>>> we will be
>>>> flying, and I agree.
>>>>
>>>> Cliff
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>> > As for the demise of 100LL, it won't happen in my life time and
>>>> > certainly
>>>> > not yours. If and when it does, there'll be something else to
>>>> take > it's
>>>> > place. They said the same thing about high horsepower cars in
>>>> the
>>>> > seventies
>>>> > when low lead/no-lead came along. Today, you can buy a car
>>>> with close > to
>>>> > 11:1 compression ratio and run it on 92 octane. Fear mongers
>>>> always
>>>> > irritate me. Can't blame them though. Ignorance is bliss.
>>>> RIGHT?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Project X Tiger |
From their pencil lead factory???
Sorry, it's raining and a lousy day ..... couldn't resist!!!
Linn
Ned Thomas wrote:
>
> They claim to be the only source for TEL.
>
> This raises my curiosity about the source for lead in Chinese
> manufactured toys / paints.
>
> Where does that lead come from?
> Ned
>
> Sent from my iPhone
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Project X Tiger |
Hi Ned,
In spite of the English claiming "green" credentials, lead in it's
solid form can be bought at any home supply store.
It is used in the sheeting form as flashing for tile roofs, and on
older structures, such as churches, for the entire roof.
Lot's of lead floating around, I think TEL is just a specialized
version that happens to be an octane booster, as Innospec labels it
on their web site.
gil A - just back from 8+ weeks in cold, wet Liverpool...
At 08:10 AM 12/18/2009, Ned Thomas wrote:
>
>They claim to be the only source for TEL.
>
>This raises my curiosity about the source for lead in Chinese
>manufactured toys / paints.
>
>Where does that lead come from?
>Ned
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Dec 17, 2009, at 9:34 PM, Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>><gilalex@earthlink.net >
>>
>>The TEL portion is an insignificant percentage of the chemical
>>industry in that area.
>>
>>The Romans started it off with salt mining - hence all of the
>>Cheshire towns ending in "---wich"
>>
>>The unions will keep the general chemical industry going as long as
>>there is a market.... even if the Conservative party gains power
>>next year....:^)
>>
>>The company web site statement on lead in aviation fuel is here....
>>
>>http://www.innospecinc.com/octane-additives.html
>>
>>gil A
>>
>>At 07:37 PM 12/17/2009, flyv35b wrote:
>>>
>>>And what's going to happen to their economy when we quit using
>>>leaded fuel?
>>>
>>>Cliff
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Gil Alexander" <gilalex@earthlink.net >
>>>To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>>>Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 8:01 AM
>>>Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Project X Tiger
>>>
>>>
>>>><gilalex@earthlink.net >
>>>>
>>>>....and I'd like to report that the only source of TEL (the lead
>>>>in 100LL) in Ellsemere Port on the River Mersey was still in
>>>>action about 3 weeks ago. As a kid, I could see the always
>>>>burning waste gases flame from the refinery from across the river
>>>>- it's still burning...
>>>>
>>>>I realized my wife had never been on the "Ferry across the Mersey"
>>>>- which now a tourist boat trip around, and the southern end of
>>>>the route was by the TEL factory, so I actually got a closer look
>>>>this time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loyRYFUYg9g We were
>>>>even on the same boat as the 1965 clip - the Woodvale, now renamed
>>>>Snowdrop.
>>>>
>>>>Lead has been extracted from this Cheshire area since Roman times,
>>>>and the area along this portion of the River Mersey and Manchester
>>>>ship canal to Widnes/Runcorn is one of the centers of the UK
>>>>chemical industry - think ICI (Imperial Chemical Industries) The
>>>>chemical industry is the life blood of this area and is fully
>>>>unionized.
>>>>
>>>>gil A
>>>>
>>>>At 07:41 AM 12/17/2009, you wrote:
>>>>><flyv35b@minetfiber.com >
>>>>>
>>>>>I kind of noted that, but then I am older (a little) thn he is.
>>>>><G> He
>>>>>was just making the point that 100LL will be around longer than
>>>>>we will be
>>>>>flying, and I agree.
>>>>>
>>>>>Cliff
>>>>>
>>>>>...
>>>>> > As for the demise of 100LL, it won't happen in my life time and
>>>>> > certainly
>>>>> > not yours. If and when it does, there'll be something else to
>>>>>take > it's
>>>>> > place. They said the same thing about high horsepower cars in
>>>>>the
>>>>> > seventies
>>>>> > when low lead/no-lead came along. Today, you can buy a car
>>>>>with close > to
>>>>> > 11:1 compression ratio and run it on 92 octane. Fear mongers
>>>>>always
>>>>> > irritate me. Can't blame them though. Ignorance is bliss.
>>>>>RIGHT?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | AG5B wiring question: SOLVED |
As it turns out, I had all the wiring correct. What I didn't know was, th
e 7 ground wires on the firewall side need to be grounded to the battery
. . . NOT THE AIRFRAME. The AG depends on ground wires coming through
the big cannon plug in order to turn things on inside. And, using the va
cuum filter . . . . well, what can I say? It's a crappy design at best.
As soon as I created a common ground and ran that wire to the battery,
everything worked.
And, for all you AG owners out there, remove the fuse to the hobbs meter
and then test for voltage on the hobbs. It's still there. Now, pull all
of the circuit breakers and fuses. It's still there. I've tried tracing
down that one. I got lost in all the un-numbered wires.
And, another 'for all you AG owners out there.' if your fuel gauges don't
work quite right, it's the grounds riveted to the rib opposite the fuel
tank sending unit. The plating on the rib prevents a very good ground.
NOTE: AGs don't use the fuel tank for ground. Just remove the ground,
cut near the rivet, and install a new ground next to it with a PK screw
and tinnerman. Remember to sand off the coating.
I have a dedicated ground buss in my plane. Under the glareshield, away
from the corrosive conditions in the engine compartment. I have one wire
from the ground buss to the engine mount. I really can't see running all
those grounds through the firewall.
-----Original Message-----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Thu, Dec 17, 2009 12:41 pm
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B wiring question
Thanks Gil,
I think the problem on the AG5B has more to do with grounds. I've been ab
le to jump across from a battery and get the relay to energize, it just do
esn't pass the voltage to the other side. I'm going to try another one.
I was able to get 27 volts to the buss line, but, nothing came on inside
the plane. I think the myriad of ground wires on the outside need to be
connected to get the power to come on inside. AGs are strange birds. Su
cks to have a special ground to turn power on. I'm so used to putting pow
er onto the buss and having everything come on. Not a big deal. I'll sor
t this out too.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thu, Dec 17, 2009 10:19 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B wiring question
Gary... the relay is fully isolated, and has no installeddiodes.
It is not polarized, so hooking up plus and minus 24v on the two smallerte
rminals can be done in either direction.
The coil resistance is 60 ohms, which you could use as a check on yourwiri
ng.
Unlike some of the other relays, there is no connection from the relaycoil
to the large relay contacts.
As far as I can tell from the data sheet, the case (ground wheninstalled)
is isolated from all of the internal workings.
http://www.stancor.com/wrdstc/pdfs/pg87_90.pdf
gil A
At 10:02 AM 12/17/2009, you wrote:
it's awhite-rogers 70-903
-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wed, Dec 16, 2009 2:09 pm
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B wiring question
Need more numbers to get a data sheet....:^) gil A
At 11:35 AM 12/16/2009, you wrote:
something with a dash 903 on theend.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Alexander<gilalex@earthlink.net>
To:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:50 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B wiring question
I could really use a wiringdiagram for this plane. So far, the current fl
ow logic isn't makingsense. Anyone know what the cannon plug code is? Ba
ck in theold days, I could read the number on the wire and look it up. Al
lof these wires are covered with expando sleeve.
Help. Anyone.
Gary, what is the part number for the 24 v master relay youused? gil A
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