---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/05/10: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:40 AM - Re: Fw: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. 1000rpm (FLYaDIVE) 2. 05:44 AM - Re: Fw: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. 1000rpm (FLYaDIVE) 3. 07:22 AM - Re: Anouncement (Linn Walters) 4. 11:16 AM - Re: Fw: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. 1000rpm (teamgrumman@AOL.COM) 5. 11:22 AM - Re: Anouncement (teamgrumman@AOL.COM) 6. 11:31 AM - Re: Anouncement (flyv35b) 7. 11:31 AM - Re: Anouncement (teamgrumman@AOL.COM) 8. 12:24 PM - Re: Fw: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. 1000rpm (FLYaDIVE) 9. 06:37 PM - Re: Anouncement (Gil Alexander) 10. 10:30 PM - Re: Anouncement (Gil Alexander) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. 1000rpm From: FLYaDIVE I agree. It should work correctly. Couldn't you think of a better analogy ... Say ... Like taking a shower with an raincoat on. Because if the glove don't fit you must acquit. Barry On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:55 PM, wrote: > The whole point is not to patch together something that should work without > a "FIX." It says right on the alternator and the associated paperwork that > no noise filter is required. > > It's kind of like wearing a glove when you buy a pen that leaks. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: FLYaDIVE > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 2:47 pm > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. > 1000rpm > > Keith & Gary: > > Looking at your picture ... In the lower right corner the screen reads 0.2 > V/Div. > That means between EACH large Tic it is 0.2 V. > SO ... Your Peak reading is about (again looking at the picture) 0.24 Volts > and the Peak to Peak (P-P) is 0.28 Volts. > As for what is acceptable... That may be determined by the manufacture or > the FAA. I do not know. BUT! When I do a very simple but ACCURATE test > using a DMM (Digital Multi Meter) I look for 0.4 to 0.5 V AC at the BATTERY > to determine if a diode is bad. > > For the little voltage you are seeing I would put a 0.001 uF Ceramic Cap in > parallel with a 50,000 uF (or more) Electrolytic Cap and the NEG side of the > Cap goes to GROUND, POS side to POS Battery > > AND/OR - Put a large electrolytic Cap from the 'S' terminal of the VR to > Ground. > > If you have that little noise (0.48 V P-P) the caps will remove it. > > Barry > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:48 PM, wrote: > >> Here is the ripple on a PP alternator. Even with a Zeftronics regulator >> and a Garmin audio panel, the noise comes through. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Keith Wannamaker >> To: Gary Vogt >> Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 10:51 am >> Subject: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. 1000rpm >> >> Gary, here is an oscope on my bus with the plane-power. I'm a bit like a >> hog looking at a wristwatch with the readout. I'm not sure if it is saying >> 1/2 volt AC top to bottom or 1/8 volt top to bottom. The plane power guy >> claims that 1/8 volt ac is within spec, but I sent him the picture and am >> waiting to hear back. >> >> Keith >> >> >> > * > > =================================== > ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > =================================== > ttp://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. 1000rpm From: FLYaDIVE Gary: You are correct, the time base should be opened up to define the type of wave and see if there is a identifiable frequency. We could start a thread on how to use an O-Scope? f = 1/T T- 1/f ... So 60 Hz would have a time base of 0.01666 Hey! Pretty good picture of the scope and wave form. Barry On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Gil Alexander wrote: > Gary, > > At 5 mS/div on the scope... could you be seeing some 60 Hz pickup? - which > would be just over 3 divisions. > > Is the noise frequency proportional to RPM? > > How long was the ground lead to your probe? > > gil A > > > At 08:55 PM 2/4/2010, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote: > > The whole point is not to patch together something that should work without > a "FIX." It says right on the alternator and the associated paperwork that > no noise filter is required. > > It's kind of like wearing a glove when you buy a pen that leaks. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: FLYaDIVE > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 2:47 pm > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. > 1000rpm > > Keith & Gary: > > Looking at your picture ... In the lower right corner the screen reads 0.2 > V/Div. > That means between EACH large Tic it is 0.2 V. > SO ... Your Peak reading is about (again looking at the picture) 0.24 Volts > and the Peak to Peak (P-P) is 0.28 Volts. > As for what is acceptable... That may be determined by the manufacture or > the FAA. I do not know. BUT! When I do a very simple but ACCURATE test > using a DMM (Digital Multi Meter) I look for 0.4 to 0.5 V AC at the BATTERY > to determine if a diode is bad. > > For the little voltage you are seeing I would put a 0.001 uF Ceramic Cap in > parallel with a 50,000 uF (or more) Electrolytic Cap and the NEG side of the > Cap goes to GROUND, POS side to POS Battery > > AND/OR - Put a large electrolytic Cap from the 'S' terminal of the VR to > Ground. > > If you have that little noise (0.48 V P-P) the caps will remove it. > > Barry > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:48 PM, wrote: > Here is the ripple on a PP alternator. Even with a Zeftronics regulator > and a Garmin audio panel, the noise comes through. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Keith Wannamaker > To: Gary Vogt > Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 10:51 am > Subject: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. 1000rpm > > Gary, here is an oscope on my bus with the plane-power. I'm a bit like a > hog looking at a wristwatch with the readout. I'm not sure if it is saying > 1/2 volt AC top to bottom or 1/8 volt top to bottom. The plane power guy > claims that 1/8 volt ac is within spec, but I sent him the picture and am > waiting to hear back. > > Keith > > > =================================== > ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > =================================== > ttp://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:03 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Anouncement Sent this to the gang so think it's only fair to send it here! I believe that you can also pick it up at a customs port of entry fully assembled and save the assembly cost here in the USA. Linn 923te wrote: > Grumman Gang, > > > > MT Propeller has received Supplemental Type Certificate for installing > their MTV-18-B/183-59b propeller assembly with 2700 RPM controller on > all models of Grumman Tigers. This STC was initiated through a > cooperative of 2 Grumman gangers and the MT distributor Jim Ayers > with Less Drag Products. This STC uses the latest, most efficient blade > design. Pictures and more information are available at links below. > > > > The MT propeller is an electrically controlled constant speed prop. It > has both an automatic mode and a manual mode. In the auto mode you > simply dial in the desired RPM and the controller will hold that RPM. In > the manual mode the pilot must hold the RPM thru a momentary switch. It > works great and really makes a whole new airplane out of the Tiger. > > > > As an introductory special, we have been able to arrange that the first > 10 props can be sold at a 10% discount. The current price of the prop is > $12,480. The discounted price for the first ten purchasers is $11,232. > The prop is shipped disassembled from Germany to Less Drag Products, > Inc. in Southern California for $360 so the total cost is $11,592 plus > freight to you, or you can fly in to Less Drag Products at OXNARD > airport and fly home faster. This special group purchase price > ends March 15 and MT is raising prices on April 1, so if you want to go > faster and climb better, now is the time to do it. > > > > Website links that you should check out: > > http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/stcusa/grumman.htm > > > > http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/electric.htm > > > > Here are MT Data and manual links: > > http://www.mt-propeller.com/pdf/datsheet/mtv-18.pdf > > The Design Limit for the MT prop is 300HP at 2800RPM > > Manual: > > http://www.mt-propeller.com/pdf/manuals/e-118.pdf > > > > > > > > Email me Ned Thomas at 923te@att.net to hold a place in the group purchase. > > > > Contact Jim Ayers for more details on the prop at 805-795-5377 8am to > 8pm PST. > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. 1000rpm From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM This was an installation of a new PP alternator and the owner complained of noise on the first flight after installation. The alternator was remo ved and the installation inspected, ground to alternator verified. Noise is still present. Noise is proportional to rpm. Noise goes away with master off. Even cont rollers complained of the noise. This noise was not there with the origin al alternator. The ground lead was long enough to reach the O-scope. -----Original Message----- From: Gil Alexander Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 8:50 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx . 1000rpm Gary, At 5 mS/div on the scope... could you be seeing some 60 Hz pickup? -which would be just over 3 divisions. Is the noise frequency proportional to RPM? How long was the ground lead to your probe? gil A At 08:55 PM 2/4/2010, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote: Thewhole point is not to patch together something that should work without a"FIX." It says right on the alternator and the associatedpaperwork that no noise filter is required. It's kind of like wearing a glove when you buy a pen that leaks. -----Original Message----- From: FLYaDIVE Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 2:47 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx.1 000rpm Keith & Gary: Looking at your picture ... In the lower right corner the screen reads0.2 V/Div. That means between EACH large Tic it is 0.2 V. SO ... Your Peak reading is about (again looking at the picture) 0.24Volts and the Peak to Peak (P-P) is 0.28 Volts. As for what is acceptable... That may be determined by the manufacture ort he FAA. I do not know. BUT! When I do a very simplebut ACCURATE test us ing a DMM (Digital Multi Meter) I look for 0.4 to 0.5V AC at the BATTERY to determine if a diode is bad. For the little voltage you are seeing I would put a 0.001 uF Ceramic Capin parallel with a 50,000 uF (or more) Electrolytic Cap and the NEG sideof the Cap goes to GROUND, POS side to POS Battery AND/OR - Put a large electrolytic Cap from the 'S' terminal of the VR toGr ound. If you have that little noise (0.48 V P-P) the caps will remove it. Barry On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:48 PM,wrote: Here is the ripple on a PP alternator. Even with a Zeftronicsregulator an d a Garmin audio panel, the noise comes through. -----Original Message----- From: Keith Wannamaker Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 10:51 am Subject: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. 1000rpm Gary, here is an oscope on my bus with the plane-power. I'm abit like a hog looking at a wristwatch with the readout. I'm notsure if it is sayin g 1/2 volt AC top to bottom or 1/8 volt top tobottom. The plane power guy claims that 1/8 volt ac is within spec,but I sent him the picture and am waiting to hear back. Keith ======================== =========== ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ======================== =========== ttp://forums.matronics.com ======================== =========== ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Anouncement From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM how does it compare to other props, i.e., the Hartzell Scimitar prop. -----Original Message----- From: 923te <923te@att.net> Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 10:00 pm Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Anouncement Grumman Gang, MT Propeller has received Supplemental Type Certificate for installing the ir MTV-18-B/183-59b propeller assembly with 2700 RPM controller on all mod els of Grumman Tigers. This STC was initiated through a cooperative of 2 Grumman gangers and the MT distributor Jim Ayers with Less Drag Products. This STC uses the latest, most efficient blade design. Pictures and more information are available at links below. The MT propeller is an electrically controlled constant speed prop. It has both an automatic mode and a manual mode. In the auto mode you simply dia l in the desired RPM and the controller will hold that RPM. In the manual mode the pilot must hold the RPM thru a momentary switch. It works great and really makes a whole new airplane out of the Tiger. As an introductory special, we have been able to arrange that the first 10 props can be sold at a 10% discount. The current price of the prop is $12 ,480. The discounted price for the first ten purchasers is $11,232. The prop is shipped disassembled from Germany to Less Drag Products, Inc. in Southern California for $360 so the total cost is $11,592 plus freight to you, or you can fly in to Less Drag Products at OXNARD airport and fly ho me faster. This special group purchase price ends March 15 and MT is rais ing prices on April 1, so if you want to go faster and climb better, now is the time to do it. Website links that you should check out: http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/stcusa/grumman.htm http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/electric.htm Here are MT Data and manual links: http://www.mt-propeller.com/pdf/datsheet/mtv-18.pdf The Design Limit for the MT prop is 300HP at 2800RPM Manual: http://www.mt-propeller.com/pdf/manuals/e-118.pdf Email me Ned Thomas at 923te@att.net to hold a place in the group purchase .. Contact Jim Ayers for more details on the prop at 805-795-5377 8am to 8pm PST. ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:05 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Anouncement With regard to performance or price? Performance is similar I think and price is considerably more than a Hartzell. When BO gets done devaluating our dollar the MT prop will cost even more! Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:18 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Anouncement how does it compare to other props, i.e., the Hartzell Scimitar prop. -----Original Message----- From: 923te <923te@att.net> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 10:00 pm Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Anouncement Grumman Gang, MT Propeller has received Supplemental Type Certificate for installing their MTV-18-B/183-59b propeller assembly with 2700 RPM controller on all models of Grumman Tigers. This STC was initiated through a cooperative of 2 Grumman gangers and the MT distributor Jim Ayers with Less Drag Products. This STC uses the latest, most efficient blade design. Pictures and more information are available at links below. The MT propeller is an electrically controlled constant speed prop. It has both an automatic mode and a manual mode. In the auto mode you simply dial in the desired RPM and the controller will hold that RPM. In the manual mode the pilot must hold the RPM thru a momentary switch. It works great and really makes a whole new airplane out of the Tiger. As an introductory special, we have been able to arrange that the first 10 props can be sold at a 10% discount. The current price of the prop is $12,480. The discounted price for the first ten purchasers is $11,232. The prop is shipped disassembled from Germany to Less Drag Products, Inc. in Southern California for $360 so the total cost is $11,592 plus freight to you, or you can fly in to Less Drag Products at OXNARD airport and fly home faster. This special group purchase price ends March 15 and MT is raising prices on April 1, so if you want to go faster and climb better, now is the time to do it. Website links that you should check out: http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/stcusa/grumman.htm http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/electric.htm Here are MT Data and manual links: http://www.mt-propeller.com/pdf/datsheet/mtv-18.pdf The Design Limit for the MT prop is 300HP at 2800RPM Manual: http://www.mt-propeller.com/pdf/manuals/e-118.pdf Email me Ned Thomas at 923te@att.net to hold a place in the group purchase. Contact Jim Ayers for more details on the prop at 805-795-5377 8am to 8pm PST. ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Lis t ttp://forums.matronics.com ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Anouncement From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM and weight -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM Sent: Fri, Feb 5, 2010 11:18 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Anouncement how does it compare to other props, i.e., the Hartzell Scimitar prop. -----Original Message----- From: 923te <923te@att.net> Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 10:00 pm Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Anouncement Grumman Gang, MT Propeller has received Supplemental Type Certificate for installing the ir MTV-18-B/183-59b propeller assembly with 2700 RPM controller on all mod els of Grumman Tigers. This STC was initiated through a cooperative of 2 Grumman gangers and the MT distributor Jim Ayers with Less Drag Products. This STC uses the latest, most efficient blade design. Pictures and more information are available at links below. The MT propeller is an electrically controlled constant speed prop. It has both an automatic mode and a manual mode. In the auto mode you simply dia l in the desired RPM and the controller will hold that RPM. In the manual mode the pilot must hold the RPM thru a momentary switch. It works great and really makes a whole new airplane out of the Tiger. As an introductory special, we have been able to arrange that the first 10 props can be sold at a 10% discount. The current price of the prop is $12 ,480. The discounted price for the first ten purchasers is $11,232. The prop is shipped disassembled from Germany to Less Drag Products, Inc. in Southern California for $360 so the total cost is $11,592 plus freight to you, or you can fly in to Less Drag Products at OXNARD airport and fly ho me faster. This special group purchase price ends March 15 and MT is rais ing prices on April 1, so if you want to go faster and climb better, now is the time to do it. Website links that you should check out: http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/stcusa/grumman.htm http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/electric.htm Here are MT Data and manual links: http://www.mt-propeller.com/pdf/datsheet/mtv-18.pdf The Design Limit for the MT prop is 300HP at 2800RPM Manual: http://www.mt-propeller.com/pdf/manuals/e-118.pdf Email me Ned Thomas at 923te@att.net to hold a place in the group purchase .. Contact Jim Ayers for more details on the prop at 805-795-5377 8am to 8pm PST. ======================== =========== ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ======================== =========== ttp://forums.matronics.com ======================== =========== ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. 1000rpm From: FLYaDIVE Gary: The noise going away with the Master OFF is normal. With the Master OFF there is NO voltage being supplied to the Alternator Field, there for NO output from the Alt. I am not sure what you are referring to when you say: "The ground lead was long enough to reach the O-scope." Which ground lead, the scope's? I would LQQK at the GROUND of the VR. Start by making a SHORT but HEAVY gage wire with alligator clips to function as a ground and hook it to the VR and see if the noise diminishes or goes away. Also check the ENGINE GROUND, the BATTERY GROUND and of course the ALT GROUND. Going back to your O-Scope run a shielded or twisted pair of wires to the scope. Set the scope to monitor a 60 Hz noise and see if the frequency changes with RPM. If it does there is a HUGE change there is a bad diode or diode connection in the ALT. If as you say CONTROLLERS are also hearing the NOISE then the noise is coming in on the B+ line and reflects back to the two items mentioned above - GROUND and/or Diode. Barry Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 8:50 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. 1000rpm Gary, > > At 5 mS/div on the scope... could you be seeing some 60 Hz pickup? - which > would be just over 3 divisions. > > Is the noise frequency proportional to RPM? > > How long was the ground lead to your probe? > > gil A > > > At 08:55 PM 2/4/2010, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote: > > The whole point is not to patch together something that should work without > a "FIX." It says right on the alternator and the associated paperwork that > no noise filter is required. > > It's kind of like wearing a glove when you buy a pen that leaks. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: FLYaDIVE > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 2:47 pm > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. > 1000rpm > > Keith & Gary: > > Looking at your picture ... In the lower right corner the screen reads 0.2 > V/Div. > That means between EACH large Tic it is 0.2 V. > SO ... Your Peak reading is about (again looking at the picture) 0.24 Volts > and the Peak to Peak (P-P) is 0.28 Volts. > As for what is acceptable... That may be determined by the manufacture or > the FAA. I do not know. BUT! When I do a very simple but ACCURATE test > using a DMM (Digital Multi Meter) I look for 0.4 to 0.5 V AC at the BATTERY > to determine if a diode is bad. > > For the little voltage you are seeing I would put a 0.001 uF Ceramic Cap in > parallel with a 50,000 uF (or more) Electrolytic Cap and the NEG side of the > Cap goes to GROUND, POS side to POS Battery > > AND/OR - Put a large electrolytic Cap from the 'S' terminal of the VR to > Ground. > > If you have that little noise (0.48 V P-P) the caps will remove it. > > Barry > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:48 PM, wrote: > Here is the ripple on a PP alternator. Even with a Zeftronics regulator > and a Garmin audio panel, the noise comes through. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Keith Wannamaker > To: Gary Vogt > Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 10:51 am > Subject: Fwd: AC voltage at aircraft bus at approx. 1000rpm > > Gary, here is an oscope on my bus with the plane-power. I'm a bit like a > hog looking at a wristwatch with the readout. I'm not sure if it is saying > 1/2 volt AC top to bottom or 1/8 volt top to bottom. The plane power guy > claims that 1/8 volt ac is within spec, but I sent him the picture and am > waiting to hear back. > > Keith > > > =================================== > ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > =================================== > ttp://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > > * > > =================================== > ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > =================================== > ttp://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:15 PM PST US From: Gil Alexander Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Anouncement But a full price comparison with a Harzell would have to include a new spinner and a new certified governor to add onto your O-360-xxx... $6000 + $500 + $1500 ???? gil A >With regard to performance or price? Performance is similar I think >and price is considerably more than a Hartzell. When BO gets done >devaluating our dollar the MT prop will cost even more! > >Cliff ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:53 PM PST US From: Gil Alexander Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Anouncement My Hartzell estimate was a bit low. Vans Aircraft volume OEM price - to be installed on a RV-X only - is $6600 for the new blended airfoil O-360 prop. So, without the Vans discount, a better estimate may be - $7200 + $500 + $1500 ???? Still less than the MT, but getting closer. BO is screwing up the $$, but the Euro folks aren't doing too well either - check the slope of the 4 month graph...:^) http://www.x-rates.com/d/EUR/USD/graph120.html gil A >But a full price comparison with a Harzell would have to include a >new spinner and a new certified governor to add onto your O-360-xxx... > >$6000 + $500 + $1500 ???? > >gil A > > >>With regard to performance or price? Performance is similar I >>think and price is considerably more than a Hartzell. When BO gets >>done devaluating our dollar the MT prop will cost even more! >> >>Cliff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.