---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/14/10: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:52 AM - Re: Plane Power alternator (WILLIAM KELLY) 2. 10:59 AM - Re: Plane Power alternator (teamgrumman@aol.com) 3. 11:00 AM - Re: Plane Power alternator (teamgrumman@AOL.COM) 4. 02:51 PM - Re: Plane Power alternator (Scott Trejo) 5. 05:01 PM - FS: Two RAE Flap actuators (Carlos Hernandez) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:57 AM PST US From: "WILLIAM KELLY" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Plane Power alternator Gary, Okay. Also, it will have been five years since Fletcher replaced the flexible fluid lines in the engine compartment, so I think it will be time for new ones again this year. I recall it as a five year interval. If you need to take measurements ahead of time for ordering the correct lengths, maybe we could do that on a side trip to Auburn. Bill Bill, During your annual, we'll take your alternator to a place I use and have them check it. If needed, we'll have them replace diodes. I agree, PP needs to make, not only a lighter mousetrap, but a better mousetrap. Otherwise what's the point? I have a new PP alternator on my shelf for my plane. If it isn't a better alternative to a Kelly rebuild, then I'm going to stop recommending them. Gary ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Plane Power alternator From: teamgrumman@aol.com Hi Scott, I've received several reports of good PP alternators. BUT, if there IS a problem and PPs answer to it is, "That's just the way it is." and doesn' t replace it or tighten up their specs to where SOME are not noisy, then it's hard for me to recommend the alternator. Let's put it this way: if I were the President of the company, I would be making damn sure the product I was selling had zero defects. Gary -----Original Message----- From: Scott Trejo Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 1:17 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Plane Power alternator I've had a PP alternator on my AA5B for about 3yrs now. It has never give n me any problems at all. No noise or any other problems. Scott Trejo N499GT On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:18 PM, G Vogt wrote: Bill, During your annual, we'll take your alternator to a place I use and have them check it. If needed, we'll have them replace diodes. I agree, PP nee ds to make, not only a lighter mousetrap, but a better mousetrap. Otherwis e what's the point? I have a new PP alternator on my shelf for my plane. If it isn't a better alternative to a Kelly rebuild, then I'm going to st op recommending them. Gary Sent from my iPhone On Apr 12, 2010, at 12:27 PM, "WILLIAM KELLY" wrote : Gary, Don't know if you were able to see my post today on the GG responding to Les Staples minimizing the PP alternator noise issue. They appear to be in denial about this. The noise really bothers Allisen when she flys wit h me. One reason, beyond my own personal preferences, that I try to keep the plane so nice is so that Allisen has confidence in the machinery and is comfortable on our trips. It irks me when something like this noise deal intrudes on that objective. My GG post stated that there is no way you could have a problem with an alernator installation unless the unit istelf had issues. Incidentally, we still want to fly up to Auburn. The weather just hasn't settled down yet from winter leftovers. Bill Remember a few months ago when I asked what other's experience was with PP alternators? At the time, I had installed a new PP alternator that was very noisy. A couple of other PP owners also wrote to say theirs wa s noisy also. My customer sent his alternator to PP to have them check it. It came back saying it was in specs. It was still very noisy. He in stalled an overhauled Kelly alternator that was quiet. PP needs to tighten up their specs. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 8, 2010, at 12:59 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote: We're 'negotiating' right now. He has done a lot of modified alternat ors and thinks he can by-pass any testing based on his data and the pr evious flight test data. Keep your fingers crossed. -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b Sent: Wed, Apr 7, 2010 6:29 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B and the Jaguar cowling Gary, I didn't realize that was the case with your baffling. That sou nds like a welcome improvement for accessibility to the alternator. I realize that logic does not play an important role in their decision making many times but it sounds like it is your DER that is making th e decision as to whether another cooling test should be run or not. Doesn't he have the authority to make such a decision based on the fa cts and info available? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:42 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B and the Jaguar cowling The alternator on a Jaguar is open like it was on a Traveler. I hav e holes in the cabin heat duct that vent directly on the alternator. During tests, the alternator was a little warmer, but not by enoug h to make a difference. Cliff, it's the FAA. Logic does not come into the picture. -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b Sent: Tue, Apr 6, 2010 2:24 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B and the Jaguar cowling What makes them think it would run hotter just because it's 24 volts ? Also, It's on the cold side of the baffle and shouldn't see much engine or exhaust heat. No real difference from an AA-5B is there? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 10:08 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B and the Jaguar cowling So, I talked to the DER about the AG5B and my cowling. All was go ing pretty well until he asked what else, besides the air box, was changed in the AG5B. I told him, "They made it 24 volts." So, the FAA may want a climb cooling test to see if the alternator on an AG5B runs hotter than an AA5B. What a pain in the ass. -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM Sent: Mon, Apr 5, 2010 12:41 pm Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B and the Jaguar cowling Here is something I ran into last night. The bottom cowling attac h holes on the late model (Tiger LLC) Tigers do not have the same spacing as real Tigers. For some reason, the spacing is changed by 1/8 inch on the outboard holes (the bottom corners and the hol es near the strut) and as much as 1/2 inch for the holes between them. What a waste of engineering. Not only that, but, that means the cowlings are not interchangeable with AA5Bs. But, then, with the funky inlet, who'd want to? Right? ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ttp://forums.matronics.com ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ttp://forums.matronics.com ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ttp://forums.matronics.com ibution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:00:21 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Plane Power alternator From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM Bill, I don't have any measurements for the AA1x. So, that would be helpful. Gary -----Original Message----- From: WILLIAM KELLY Sent: Wed, Apr 14, 2010 1:52 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Plane Power alternator Gary, Okay. Also, it will have been five years since Fletcher replaced the flexi ble fluid lines in the engine compartment, so I think it will be time for new ones again this year. I recall it as a five year interval. If you ne ed to take measurements ahead of time for ordering the correct lengths, ma ybe we could do that on a side trip to Auburn. Bill Bill, During your annual, we'll take your alternator to a place I use and have them check it. If needed, we'll have them replace diodes. I agree, PP needs to make, not only a lighter mousetrap, but a better mousetrap. Ot herwise what's the point? I have a new PP alternator on my shelf for my plane. If it isn't a better alternative to a Kelly rebuild, then I'm go ing to stop recommending them. Gary ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:16 PM PST US From: Scott Trejo Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Plane Power alternator Gary, I agree with you 100%. PP should at the very least test the alternator and replace it if noise is present. Scott Trejo On Apr 14, 2010, at 12:57 PM, teamgrumman@AOL.COM wrote: > Hi Scott, > > I've received several reports of good PP alternators. BUT, if there IS a problem and PPs answer to it is, "That's just the way it is." and doesn't replace it or tighten up their specs to where SOME are not noisy, then it's hard for me to recommend the alternator. > > Let's put it this way: if I were the President of the company, I would be making damn sure the product I was selling had zero defects. > > Gary > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Trejo > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 1:17 pm > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Plane Power alternator > > I've had a PP alternator on my AA5B for about 3yrs now. It has never given me any problems at all. No noise or any other problems. > > Scott Trejo > N499GT > On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:18 PM, G Vogt wrote: > >> Bill, >> >> During your annual, we'll take your alternator to a place I use and have them check it. If needed, we'll have them replace diodes. I agree, PP needs to make, not only a lighter mousetrap, but a better mousetrap. Otherwise what's the point? I have a new PP alternator on my shelf for my plane. If it isn't a better alternative to a Kelly rebuild, then I'm going to stop recommending them. >> >> Gary >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 12, 2010, at 12:27 PM, "WILLIAM KELLY" wrote: >> >>> Gary, >>> >>> Don't know if you were able to see my post today on the GG responding to Les Staples minimizing the PP alternator noise issue. They appear to be in denial about this. The noise really bothers Allisen when she flys with me. One reason, beyond my own personal preferences, that I try to keep the plane so nice is so that Allisen has confidence in the machinery and is comfortable on our trips. It irks me when something like this noise deal intrudes on that objective. My GG post stated that there is no way you could have a problem with an alernator installation unless the unit istelf had issues. Incidentally, we still want to fly up to Auburn. The weather just hasn't settled down yet from winter leftovers. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> Remember a few months ago when I asked what other's experience was with PP alternators? At the time, I had installed a new PP alternator that was very noisy. A couple of other PP owners also wrote to say theirs was noisy also. My customer sent his alternator to PP to have them check it. It came back saying it was in specs. It was still very noisy. He installed an overhauled Kelly alternator that was quiet. >>> >>> PP needs to tighten up their specs. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Apr 8, 2010, at 12:59 PM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote: >>> >>>> We're 'negotiating' right now. He has done a lot of modified alternators and thinks he can by-pass any testing based on his data and the previous flight test data. Keep your fingers crossed. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: flyv35b >>>> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >>>> Sent: Wed, Apr 7, 2010 6:29 am >>>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B and the Jaguar cowling >>>> >>>> Gary, I didn't realize that was the case with your baffling. That sounds like a welcome improvement for accessibility to the alternator. >>>> >>>> I realize that logic does not play an important role in their decision making many times but it sounds like it is your DER that is making the decision as to whether another cooling test should be run or not. Doesn't he have the authority to make such a decision based on the facts and info available? >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: teamgrumman@aol.com >>>> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:42 PM >>>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B and the Jaguar cowling >>>> >>>> The alternator on a Jaguar is open like it was on a Traveler. I have holes in the cabin heat duct that vent directly on the alternator. During tests, the alternator was a little warmer, but not by enough to make a difference. >>>> >>>> Cliff, it's the FAA. Logic does not come into the picture. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: flyv35b >>>> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >>>> Sent: Tue, Apr 6, 2010 2:24 pm >>>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B and the Jaguar cowling >>>> >>>> >>>> What makes them think it would run hotter just because it's 24 volts? Also, It's on the cold side of the baffle and shouldn't see much engine or exhaust heat. No real difference from an AA-5B is there? >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: teamgrumman@aol.com >>>> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 10:08 AM >>>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B and the Jaguar cowling >>>> >>>> So, I talked to the DER about the AG5B and my cowling. All was going pretty well until he asked what else, besides the air box, was changed in the AG5B. I told him, "They made it 24 volts." So, the FAA may want a climb cooling test to see if the alternator on an AG5B runs hotter than an AA5B. >>>> >>>> What a pain in the ass. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM >>>> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >>>> Sent: Mon, Apr 5, 2010 12:41 pm >>>> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B and the Jaguar cowling >>>> >>>> Here is something I ran into last night. The bottom cowling attach holes on the late model (Tiger LLC) Tigers do not have the same spacing as real Tigers. For some reason, the spacing is changed by 1/8 inch on the outboard holes (the bottom corners and the holes near the strut) and as much as 1/2 inch for the holes between them. What a waste of engineering. >>>> >>>> Not only that, but, that means the cowlings are not interchangeable with AA5Bs. But, then, with the funky inlet, who'd want to? Right? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List >>>> ttp://forums.matronics.com >>>> ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List >>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >>>> >>>> >>>> ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List >>>> ttp://forums.matronics.com >>>> ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List >>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >>>> >>>> >>>> ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List >>>> ttp://forums.matronics.com >>>> ibution">http://www.matronics.com/c >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List >>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution >> > > > > ======================== =========== > ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > ======================== =========== > ttp://forums.matronics.com > ======================== =========== > ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ======================== =========== > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:17 PM PST US From: Carlos Hernandez Subject: TeamGrumman-List: FS: Two RAE Flap actuators Ladies and gents, I acquired two RAE 12V flap actuators from a Grumman (can't remember which model sorry) some time ago in hopes to use them in a project I had going. Well things change and I've decided to go another route. So if your interested or want some pictures email me directly at carlosh@sec-engr.com. Carlos in Arizona ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.