Today's Message Index:
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1. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: AG5B Jaguar (teamgrumman@AOL.COM)
2. 07:57 PM - Re: Re: AG5B Jaguar (923te)
3. 09:22 PM - Re: Re: AG5B Jaguar (teamgrumman@aol.com)
Message 1
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Kevin,
The problem with running 2700 rpm, legally, with 10:1 compression in a cer
tified engine is that the FAA would never approve it. Ken Tunnell is havi
ng a tough time with 10:1 approval at a reduced rpm in the Continental eng
ines for which he's in the process of getting an STC. He'll begin the Lyc
s as soon as either I come up with money or he gets the STC for the Conts.
On-the-other-hand, let's say, for example, a Tiger was made available as
a kit build experimental. Then,
(1) there is a WhirlWind prop that is much better than the MT prop.
(2) a tail wheel Tiger could be made easier
(3) no limits on engines
(4) construction techniques and problems with building could be sorted out
in the field instead of on the assembly line
All the development that you don't have money to do could be done by every
one else. Look at my "Dumb Design Decisions" on my web site. None of tho
se bad choices were addressed in the Tiger LLC version. I would venture
to guess a hundred hours in assembly time could be saved if more thought
were put into the process. "The janitor knows which broom is best." Joh
n Z DeLorean. I would venture to guess that a hundred pounds could be sha
ved off the plane too. "Adding horsepower makes you faster in the straigh
ts. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." Colin Chapman, foun
der of Lotus cars and Team Lotus Racing. and "Every car (plane) has a lo
t of speed in it. The trick is getting speed out of it." A.J. Foyt
One step at a time. I can only afford to do so much. I have about $150,0
00 and 10 years invested in my cowling. Yes, it's true, I could make is
simpler and cheaper. But, the cooling would go out the window too. I pa
tterned my cooling inlets after the Mooney Ovation inlets. I see that the
y have changed to a simpler and cheaper inlet. It probably works. But,
who out there is willing to give up 15 degrees of CHT for a cheaper inlet
?
Project X: As soon as Brian's plane is gone and then Joe's plane and then
3 or so annuals, work begins on the Project X plane. It's an AG5B.
=A2 The first step is to fix (i.e., correct) the poorly designed car
b air inlet using as much hardware as is already there. The idea is to pro
vide something that is simple to install and regains the lost inch of pres
sure.
Lots of plans for Project X.
Stay tuned.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Lancaster <jkevinl@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:00 pm
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Jaguar
Hi Gary,
I like fast! Wonder how much power it would make at........say......let's
pull a random number out of the air here.........2700 rpm?
COOOL! (note the BIG smile) ;-)
And while Ned was making great time flying East with fantastic tail winds
I flew almost 1400 miles in a 150hp AA1A in the opposite direction into
the wind - often at only 80-90 knots. Long trip - still fun! Some guys
have all the luck.
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Jaguar
Kevin,
For what-it's-worth, Ken Tunnell (LyCon Engine Rebuilders) and I have a
10:1 fuel injected engine in the works that is rated at 180 hp at 2550
rpm. With the MT prop, it should climb like a homesick angel and get
awesome fuel mileage. The MT prop will take advantage of the extra tor
que and still improve cruise speeds.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Lancaster <jkevinl@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:05 pm
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Jaguar
I'm eager to see some numbers too! We (True Flight) are set up to distr
ibute and install these and will be offering them on the new Tigers too.
As they say the proof is in the puddin' so how's the puddin' Ned?
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: 923te
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Jaguar
Yeah,
Me too.
I could climb with Gary but just barely...
That is I had to put the nose way down and climb 20kts faster than bes
t climb rate;)
More info (numbers) soon as I finish flight testing.
Regards,
Ned
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Message 2
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Two FAA certified examples of 10:1 pistons
1) The helicopter engine HIO-360-D1A which is rated at 190HP at 3200RPM
on 100/100LL with compression ratio of 10.00:1
2) Firewall Forward has STC'd 10:1 pistons in the Mooney and Cardinal
without RPM restrictions according to their representative spoke with.
http://firewallforward.com/horsepowerplusstc.pdf
Admittedly, these are not paraleel valve but are angle valve engines but
they do show that the FAA has approved 10:1 pistons at or above 2700rpm
----- Original Message ---
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Jaguar
Kevin,
The problem with running 2700 rpm, legally, with 10:1 compression in a
certified engine is that the FAA would never approve it.
Message 3
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True. It can be done. You can put 10:1 pistons into an -A4K. But. You
would have to re-certify first, the engine, then the airframe for the add
itional horsepower, change the POH, come up with all new performance data,
reliability data, cooling data, . . . . . Is it worth it? You tell me.
I'll use your money to find out.
What I meant was, "the FAA would never approve putting 10:1 into an A4K ru
nning at 2700 rpm without lots of money." Keeping the -A4K at 180 hp make
s all the difference in the world.
-----Original Message-----
From: 923te <923te@att.net>
Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2010 8:04 pm
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Jaguar
Two FAA certified examples of 10:1 pistons
1) The helicopter engine HIO-360-D1A which is rated at 190HP at 3200RPM on
100/100LL with compression ratio of 10.00:1
2) Firewall Forward has STC'd 10:1 pistons in the Mooney and Cardinal wit
hout RPM restrictions according to their representative spoke with.
http://firewallforward.com/horsepowerplusstc.pdf
Admittedly, these are not paraleel valve but are angle valve engines but
they do show that the FAA has approved 10:1 pistons at or above 2700rpm
----- Original Message ---
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Jaguar
Kevin,
The problem with running 2700 rpm, legally, with 10:1 compression in a
certified engine is that the FAA would never approve it.
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