---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/05/10: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:52 AM - Re: Re: AG5B Jaguar (James Courtney) 2. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: AG5B Jaguar (Linn Walters) 3. 06:58 PM - Re: Re: AG5B Jaguar (Davesbox1@aol.com) 4. 09:21 PM - Re: If Royal Dutch Airlines can do it then so can Gary Vogt. I need this STC Gary (923te) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:12 AM PST US From: "James Courtney" Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Jaguar Okay guys, with all due respect this is probably best worked out between you two in private. Best regards, Jamey From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:35 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Jaguar OK, Ned, Let's clarify. You paid $8,500 for the cowling. I also charged you for the things that do not come with the cowling. $210 for oil cooler hoses because yours were too short to fit the new baffles. $38 for a carb inlet duct to convert to the AA5B airbox. $365 for the hinge assembly for the upper cowling. Not included. $38 for a stainless steel fuel line to convert to the AA5B airbox. $36 for SCAT tubing because yours was too short to fit the AA5B airbox and a reroute for the cowling exit ramps. ------- parts total was $9188.81 $1440 to do the conversion to the AA5B airbox and reroute wires and pressure hoses away from the carb inlet duct. $500 for labor to install the cowling. $450 for paperwork. ----- total labor was $2390 $540 for engineering approval paperwork. $400 for DER and DAR. Actual cost was $650. $179 for fuel since your plane was out of gas. -------outsourced total was $1119.07 which I kept $0 dollars. $770 in taxes (which I don't keep, I pass along.) $197 in misc freight, hardware, grease, cleaners, etc. All at cost. None of which I make money on. As for the deposit: Who gives a shit what I do with it as long as you get your cowling? I had the cowling when you got here. I had it mostly fitted when you got here. The only thing I waited on was hinges (on order when you arrived), baffles, hoses, and the fuel line. Oh, yea, and approval of the installation. I forced that through because you were in a hurry. As for the plug wires not being tight, OOPs. As for the two flights with Clytie, yea, two flights. One was 7 miles to Georgetown and the other was 8 miles to Lincoln. We flew to Georgetown for gas, they had none. We flew to Lincoln to show the DER the installation. During each flight, we did some speed runs to see that everything was OK. Mag drop at each run-up was about 75 to 100 rpm. That isn't cause for alarm. Otherwise, I'd have looked closer to see why. Funny. If I hadn't flown the plane you'd be pissed that I hadn't done some test flights. Who pays for fuel for test flights anyway? As for the wires on the alternator, I've worked on maybe 3 AG5Bs. I'm used to wires that only fit one way and seeing numbers on the wires. Apparently, that wasn't a requirement when they made the AG5B. I have the AG5B service manuals but they are useless. I'm glad you had the wiring diagram. As for the MT prop approval, you have no idea what I went through to get that approved. As for flying with you before the Jaguar cowling, yea, I was pretty surprised that a stock Tiger with my cowling was faster than your AG5B. I don't recall checking TAS. All I remember was throttling back so you could catch up. As for flying after the install of the Jaguar cowling, we were both about 152 TAS under those conditions. Ned, I expected differently too. I sent the baffles and the camloc. Gary -----Original Message----- From: 923te <923te@att.net> Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 9:39 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Jaguar Gary, I don't know where your coming from at all. I really like your cowl. I liked following the journey you took to get the cowl to where it is today. I appreciate your willingness to take on the challenge of getting it installed on my Tiger. I don't understand why you are unhappy. I don't understand your math. You know full well that I paid you $13,665.31 why state otherwise? Don't you recall flying with me at 152 ktas before the cowl was installed when I flew a couple hours to help you deliver Martin's plane? Do you realize that you charged me for the fuel burned in my plane on that trip? And for the two flights you made with Krytie in my plane. Do you remember, on your first flight test in my plane, how the engine burbled after take off over a gorge? And how you left me with a plane that ran rough? And after I picked the plane up and made that 300nm trip to Oxnard I found #2 AND #4 top spark plug wires only inserted in the plugs and the hold downs were not screwed in not even one thread. Guess what, no more rough engine no more noisy radios after I finished the plug wire install. Do you remember how you kept changing the deal you made with me on the cowl? How you ask me how the alternator was wired because you forgot how you took it apart? Do you remember how you ask me to get MT propeller to write a letter saying your cowl was okay with their prop? And how you said you would not be able to sign off on the 337 and I would have to have someone else sign off on it. How you spoke with my mechanic in Oklahoma about this? Have you forgotten how you needed $5000 last January in order to have a new cowl built for me but you ended up using the money on baffles? Gee Gary I could go on but this should be enough for you to get why I might be a little dissappointed in you. Again I'm happy with the cowl. I suppose I just expected a different Gary. I'm just going to consider that you were not at your best thru this. As for the speed increase we expected I will continue working to get it. It has to be there. So I've cleaned the bugs off the plane and double waxed it and been tweaking on it since I returned from California last Thursday. Soon as I can I'll do more flight testing and I'm sure we'll evently see the results from the cowl that we expected. ned ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 1:24 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Jaguar Ned, You changed the prop and the cowling at the same time. And you're saying the cowling made the plane slower? Are you serious? I flew the plane, remember? I also flew along side of you. At 152 TAS, you're at least 12 knots faster than a stock AG5B. Ned, you got a hell-of-a-deal on that cowling. $9000 installed. It shouldn't cost more than $500 to get the outside painted to match. I painted the inside for you to protect the fiberglass from getting oil soaked. I exchange, you kept your old cowling and baffles which I usually keep to recover some of the 50 hours in labor I put into baffles, fitting, painting and installing the cowling. I could sell cowlings all day long at $9000 installed if I wanted to go out of business. As it is, I lost $4,500 on your installation alone. Ned, I'm sorry you're not happy with the cowling. You haven't been happy with the whole deal since we started. I've gone out-of-my-way to accommodate you and the installation on your AG5B, including pissing-off my DER and DAR. Nothing I've done seems to be good enough for you. If you're not happy with the cowling, sell it to your buddy there in OK for $10,000. Make a clean $1000 for your effort. All the hard work in fitting and trimming is done. You still have your original cowling, reinstall it. His plane would only need (at the most) to have the engine mount shims adjusted to align the spinner. I'm fairly certain he'd be happy with the cowling. Gary =================================== ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =================================== ttp://forums.matronics.com =================================== ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11:27:00 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:08 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Jaguar C'mon Jamey ..... I like a good boxing match once in a while ...... they're just trading facts ..... with a little punch behind it. I learned something, though. I can't afford that cowl! Linn James Courtney wrote: > Okay guys, with all due respect this is probably best worked out between > you two in private. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Jamey > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:00 PM PST US From: Davesbox1@aol.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Jaguar i agree....tough as it may be both guys gave honest responses and i certainly learned both some numbers , costs and the importance of a contract even among friends- D In a message dated 5/5/2010 10:08:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time, pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net writes: --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Linn Walters C'mon Jamey ..... I like a good boxing match once in a while ...... they're just trading facts ..... with a little punch behind it. I learned something, though. I can't afford that cowl! Linn James Courtney wrote: > Okay guys, with all due respect this is probably best worked out between > you two in private. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Jamey > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:28 PM PST US From: "923te" <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: If Royal Dutch Airlines can do it then so can Gary Vogt. I need this STC Gary http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=6NPF0A_vGC4 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.