Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:49 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (Hosler, John)
2. 06:44 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (flyv35b)
3. 06:45 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (923te)
4. 06:49 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (Hosler, John)
5. 07:04 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (923te)
6. 07:40 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (flyv35b)
7. 07:51 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (flyv35b)
8. 11:10 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (G Vogt)
9. 11:30 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (G Vogt)
Message 1
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Ned:
I have been following Gary's progress closely over the past few years.
Hope to get a Jaguar for my tiger someday.
How's the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon fiber
cowling not dissipating heat well.
John
________________________________
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 923te
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
Hey John,
Gary is not developing a replacement cowling. He has already produced an
FAA approved STC for a complete cowling. How do I know? I have one on my
Tiger. AND it is much improved over the stock cowl even a new stock
cowl. Much less drag design and easier to remove for maintenance.
Spread the news John.
Regards,
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: Hosler, John <mailto:JHOSLER@epri.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:16 PM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
<JHOSLER@epri.com>
Full cowlings are in extremely high demand for AA-5b and on.
Fatigue
has done bad things over the last 30 years.
The fact that you are developing a replacement cowling is seen
as a god
send even if there is no performance improvement.
John
704-252-0780
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of G Vogt
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 5:53 PM
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
<teamgrumman@aol.com>
I've offered cowlings for sale before and no one responded. I
just
sold 3 to Fletcher for real cheap so, if there is a demand, call
Fletcher. They have some at bargain basement prices.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 13, 2010, at 6:46 AM, "Andy Thomas" <andy747@charter.net>
wrote:
<andy747@charter.net
> >
>
> Mark,
>
> put me on the list as interested and I would like a picture
when
> available. Where are you located (thinking of shipping cost).
> Thanks...
>
> Andy Thomas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark T. Mueller" <mark.t.mueller@comcast.net>
> To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:29 AM
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
>
>
<mark.t.mueller@comcast.net
>> >
>>
>> I still have my old AA-5B cowling with the "split nosebowl".
Paint
>> isn't great but in good condition overall, just missing a
couple
>> screws on the split hardware.
>>
>> I have been saving it to build a nice little wall decoration
for my
>> office and/or garage, but the Household Commander vetoed that
>> idea....
>>
>> It was removed a few years back for my LoPresti nose install
(long
>> before Gary was working on his...)
>>
>> LMK if anyone is interested. I can snap digi photos if
needed. Best
>> offer + shipping.
>>
>> Mark
>> Tiger N1533R
>>
>>
>>
>> From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM
>>
>> Scott has bought the cowling.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your interest.
>>
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
&Features Chat, http://www.mnbsp; via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
_p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
===============
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AA-5B Cowling |
How's the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon fiber
cowling not dissipating heat well.
John
That's the first I have heard about that. Do you really think that the
heat transfer through an aluminum cowling versus a carbon fiber or
fiberglass one makes a difference, even a minor one, on the overall
cooling? There are other more significant differences between the AA-5B
and AG-5B that could contribute to any cooling differences.
Cliff
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: AA-5B Cowling |
John
Having owned Tigers with aluminum, carbon fiber and fiberglass
cowlings I can say that the "much has been said" is simply that. There
is no appreciable difference in heat dissipation between the three
cowls. The major player is how the heat is moved quickly out the air
exits and NOT how well the heat moves across the material of the cowl.
That's just plain physics
Comparing the Jag cowl to the AG5B cowl in my particular instance is
still on going with more flight tests forth coming to accurately make
the comparisons. I would not be surprised to find the Jag cowl to have
a little higher temps than the AG cowl but still adequate cooling.
Your Fellow Grumman Enthusiast
Ned
Sent from my iPhone
On May 14, 2010, at 5:46 AM, "Hosler, John" <JHOSLER@epri.com> wrote:
> Ned:
>
> I have been following Gary=99s progress closely over the past
few year
> s. Hope to get a Jaguar for my tiger someday.
>
> How=99s the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon
fiber
> cowling not dissipating heat well.
>
> John
>
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 923te
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:18 PM
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
>
> Hey John,
>
> Gary is not developing a replacement cowling. He has already
> produced an FAA approved STC for a complete cowling. How do I know?
> I have one on my Tiger. AND it is much improved over the stock cowl
> even a new stock cowl. Much less drag design and easier to remove
> for maintenance.
>
> Spread the news John.
>
> Regards,
> Ned
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hosler, John
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:16 PM
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
>
<JHOSLER@epri.com
> >
>
> Full cowlings are in extremely high demand for AA-5b and on. Fatigue
> has done bad things over the last 30 years.
>
> The fact that you are developing a replacement cowling is seen as a
> god
> send even if there is no performance improvement.
>
> John
> 704-252-0780
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G
> Vogt
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 5:53 PM
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
>
>
> I've offered cowlings for sale before and no one responded. I just
> sold 3 to Fletcher for real cheap so, if there is a demand, call
> Fletcher. They have some at bargain basement prices.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 13, 2010, at 6:46 AM, "Andy Thomas" <andy747@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
> <andy747@charter.net
> > >
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > put me on the list as interested and I would like a picture when
> > available. Where are you located (thinking of shipping cost).
> > Thanks...
> >
> > Andy Thomas
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark T. Mueller" <mark.t.mueller@comcast.net>
> > To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:29 AM
> > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
> >
> >
> <mark.t.mueller@comcast.net
> >> >
> >>
> >> I still have my old AA-5B cowling with the "split nosebowl". Paint
> >> isn't great but in good condition overall, just missing a couple
> >> screws on the split hardware.
> >>
> >> I have been saving it to build a nice little wall decoration for my
> >> office and/or garage, but the Household Commander vetoed that
> >> idea....
> >>
> >> It was removed a few years back for my LoPresti nose install (long
> >> before Gary was working on his...)
> >>
> >> LMK if anyone is interested. I can snap digi photos if needed. Best
> >> offer + shipping.
> >>
> >> Mark
> >> Tiger N1533R
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM
> >>
> >> Scott has bought the cowling.
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks for your interest.
> >>
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> &Features Chat, http://www.mnbsp; via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com
> ">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ">http://www.matronics.com/c===============
=
>
>
Message 4
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The question was more related to cool down after landing or heat up
while taxiing. That's what cowl flaps are for on larger aircraft.
________________________________
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
flyv35b
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
How's the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon fiber
cowling not dissipating heat well.
John
That's the first I have heard about that. Do you really think that the
heat transfer through an aluminum cowling versus a carbon fiber or
fiberglass one makes a difference, even a minor one, on the overall
cooling? There are other more significant differences between the AA-5B
and AG-5B that could contribute to any cooling differences.
Cliff
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AA-5B Cowling |
One thing I don't care for is how emails that appear to be from and
replied to an individual go straight to this list. It is especially hard
to tell on my iPhone that this occurs.
I've never heard of cowl flaps having been designed primarily for "after
landing cool down and heat up during taxiing." I don't think so. In the
planes I've owned that had cowl flaps the primary purpose was to reduce
the FAA required cooling design for climb to a more effiecient cooling
design for cruise. Less air required in cruise so the idea is to reduce
drag in cruise with the cowl flaps.
Can you tell me of a particular plane that has cowl flaps specifically
designed for cool down and taxiing?
----- Original Message -----
From: Hosler, John
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 8:48 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
The question was more related to cool down after landing or heat up
while taxiing. That's what cowl flaps are for on larger aircraft.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
flyv35b
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 9:31 AM
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
How's the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon fiber
cowling not dissipating heat well.
John
That's the first I have heard about that. Do you really think that
the heat transfer through an aluminum cowling versus a carbon fiber or
fiberglass one makes a difference, even a minor one, on the overall
cooling? There are other more significant differences between the AA-5B
and AG-5B that could contribute to any cooling differences.
Cliff
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: AA-5B Cowling |
I've never heard of cowl flaps having been designed primarily for "after
landing cool down and heat up during taxiing." I don't think so. In the
planes I've owned that had cowl flaps the primary purpose was to reduce
the FAA required cooling design for climb to a more effiecient cooling
design for cruise. Less air required in cruise so the idea is to reduce
drag in cruise with the cowl flaps.
Absolutely, as I pointed out in my email.
Cliff
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: AA-5B Cowling |
Under cowl temps will invariably increase immediately after landing
before they start to decrease, no matter what the cowling is made of. I
see this on my Bonanza and watch the oil temp increase whether or not my
cowl flaps are open or closed. Most of the time I open both cowl doors
after shutting down to allow the heat out, especially if it's a short
turn around and I'm going to take off right away. Cowl flaps are not
for this but for controlling temperatures (mainly cylinder head temp)
during slow speed climb out when there is much lower air flow than
during cruise. With a fast plane that cruises at a much higher speed
than it climbs you will add a lot of drag at cruise speed because there
will be a lot more airflow than needed for this flight condition.
Having cockpit adjustable cowl flaps is very beneficial in managing this
airflow and reducing cooling drag and increasing cruise speed. On my
Bonanza I can see about 4 kts of speed increase by closing the cowl
flaps at cruise speed condition.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: Hosler, John
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 6:48 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
The question was more related to cool down after landing or heat up
while taxiing. That's what cowl flaps are for on larger aircraft.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
flyv35b
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 9:31 AM
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
How's the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon fiber
cowling not dissipating heat well.
John
That's the first I have heard about that. Do you really think that
the heat transfer through an aluminum cowling versus a carbon fiber or
fiberglass one makes a difference, even a minor one, on the overall
cooling? There are other more significant differences between the AA-5B
and AG-5B that could contribute to any cooling differences.
Cliff
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: AA-5B Cowling |
For the third day in a row, I've been unable to read my mail on AOL.
This happened last year for a couple of days and it pissed me off
then. This is the fourth time this year that they've fucked with the
email. I've run out of patience. I've had the same email addresses on
AOL since 1995. But, I need access to email for business.
Please change my email to teamgrumman@yahoo.com
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone
On May 13, 2010, at 2:53 PM, G Vogt <teamgrumman@aol.com> wrote:
>
> I've offered cowlings for sale before and no one responded. I just
> sold 3 to Fletcher for real cheap so, if there is a demand, call
> Fletcher. They have some at bargain basement prices.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 13, 2010, at 6:46 AM, "Andy Thomas" <andy747@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> put me on the list as interested and I would like a picture when
>> available. Where are you located (thinking of shipping cost).
>> Thanks...
>>
>> Andy Thomas
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mark T. Mueller" <mark.t.mueller@comcast.net>
>> To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:29 AM
>> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling
>>
>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> I still have my old AA-5B cowling with the "split nosebowl". Paint
>>> isn't great but in good condition overall, just missing a couple
>>> screws on the split hardware.
>>>
>>> I have been saving it to build a nice little wall decoration for my
>>> office and/or garage, but the Household Commander vetoed that
>>> idea....
>>>
>>> It was removed a few years back for my LoPresti nose install (long
>>> before Gary was working on his...)
>>>
>>> LMK if anyone is interested. I can snap digi photos if needed. Best
>>> offer + shipping.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>> Tiger N1533R
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM
>>>
>>> Scott has bought the cowling.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for your interest.
>>>
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: AA-5B Cowling |
I first heard this myth 10 years ago on a visit to Fletchair.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 14, 2010, at 6:31 AM, "flyv35b" <flyv35b@minetfiber.com> wrote:
> How=99s the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon
fiber
> cowling not dissipating heat well.
>
> John
>
> That's the first I have heard about that. Do you really think that
> the heat transfer through an aluminum cowling versus a carbon fiber
> or fiberglass one makes a difference, even a minor one, on the
> overall cooling? There are other more significant differences
> between the AA-5B and AG-5B that could contribute to any cooling
> differences.
>
> Cliff
>
>
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