---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/14/10: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:49 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (Hosler, John) 2. 06:44 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (flyv35b) 3. 06:45 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (923te) 4. 06:49 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (Hosler, John) 5. 07:04 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (923te) 6. 07:40 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (flyv35b) 7. 07:51 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (flyv35b) 8. 11:10 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (G Vogt) 9. 11:30 AM - Re: AA-5B Cowling (G Vogt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:04 AM PST US Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling From: "Hosler, John" Ned: I have been following Gary's progress closely over the past few years. Hope to get a Jaguar for my tiger someday. How's the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon fiber cowling not dissipating heat well. John ________________________________ From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 923te Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:18 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling Hey John, Gary is not developing a replacement cowling. He has already produced an FAA approved STC for a complete cowling. How do I know? I have one on my Tiger. AND it is much improved over the stock cowl even a new stock cowl. Much less drag design and easier to remove for maintenance. Spread the news John. Regards, Ned ----- Original Message ----- From: Hosler, John To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling Full cowlings are in extremely high demand for AA-5b and on. Fatigue has done bad things over the last 30 years. The fact that you are developing a replacement cowling is seen as a god send even if there is no performance improvement. John 704-252-0780 -----Original Message----- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G Vogt Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 5:53 PM To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling I've offered cowlings for sale before and no one responded. I just sold 3 to Fletcher for real cheap so, if there is a demand, call Fletcher. They have some at bargain basement prices. Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2010, at 6:46 AM, "Andy Thomas" wrote: > > > Mark, > > put me on the list as interested and I would like a picture when > available. Where are you located (thinking of shipping cost). > Thanks... > > Andy Thomas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark T. Mueller" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:29 AM > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling > > > > >> >> I still have my old AA-5B cowling with the "split nosebowl". Paint >> isn't great but in good condition overall, just missing a couple >> screws on the split hardware. >> >> I have been saving it to build a nice little wall decoration for my >> office and/or garage, but the Household Commander vetoed that >> idea.... >> >> It was removed a few years back for my LoPresti nose install (long >> before Gary was working on his...) >> >> LMK if anyone is interested. I can snap digi photos if needed. Best >> offer + shipping. >> >> Mark >> Tiger N1533R >> >> >> >> From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM >> >> Scott has bought the cowling. >> >> >> Thanks for your interest. >> >> >> Gary >> >> >> >> > > &Features Chat, http://www.mnbsp; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =============== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:02 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling How's the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon fiber cowling not dissipating heat well. John That's the first I have heard about that. Do you really think that the heat transfer through an aluminum cowling versus a carbon fiber or fiberglass one makes a difference, even a minor one, on the overall cooling? There are other more significant differences between the AA-5B and AG-5B that could contribute to any cooling differences. Cliff ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:18 AM PST US From: 923te <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling John Having owned Tigers with aluminum, carbon fiber and fiberglass cowlings I can say that the "much has been said" is simply that. There is no appreciable difference in heat dissipation between the three cowls. The major player is how the heat is moved quickly out the air exits and NOT how well the heat moves across the material of the cowl. That's just plain physics Comparing the Jag cowl to the AG5B cowl in my particular instance is still on going with more flight tests forth coming to accurately make the comparisons. I would not be surprised to find the Jag cowl to have a little higher temps than the AG cowl but still adequate cooling. Your Fellow Grumman Enthusiast Ned Sent from my iPhone On May 14, 2010, at 5:46 AM, "Hosler, John" wrote: > Ned: > > I have been following Gary=99s progress closely over the past few year > s. Hope to get a Jaguar for my tiger someday. > > How=99s the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon fiber > cowling not dissipating heat well. > > John > > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner- > teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 923te > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:18 PM > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling > > Hey John, > > Gary is not developing a replacement cowling. He has already > produced an FAA approved STC for a complete cowling. How do I know? > I have one on my Tiger. AND it is much improved over the stock cowl > even a new stock cowl. Much less drag design and easier to remove > for maintenance. > > Spread the news John. > > Regards, > Ned > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Hosler, John > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:16 PM > Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling > > > > Full cowlings are in extremely high demand for AA-5b and on. Fatigue > has done bad things over the last 30 years. > > The fact that you are developing a replacement cowling is seen as a > god > send even if there is no performance improvement. > > John > 704-252-0780 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G > Vogt > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 5:53 PM > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling > > > I've offered cowlings for sale before and no one responded. I just > sold 3 to Fletcher for real cheap so, if there is a demand, call > Fletcher. They have some at bargain basement prices. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 13, 2010, at 6:46 AM, "Andy Thomas" > wrote: > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > put me on the list as interested and I would like a picture when > > available. Where are you located (thinking of shipping cost). > > Thanks... > > > > Andy Thomas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark T. Mueller" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:29 AM > > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling > > > > > >> > > >> > >> I still have my old AA-5B cowling with the "split nosebowl". Paint > >> isn't great but in good condition overall, just missing a couple > >> screws on the split hardware. > >> > >> I have been saving it to build a nice little wall decoration for my > >> office and/or garage, but the Household Commander vetoed that > >> idea.... > >> > >> It was removed a few years back for my LoPresti nose install (long > >> before Gary was working on his...) > >> > >> LMK if anyone is interested. I can snap digi photos if needed. Best > >> offer + shipping. > >> > >> Mark > >> Tiger N1533R > >> > >> > >> > >> From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM > >> > >> Scott has bought the cowling. > >> > >> > >> Thanks for your interest. > >> > >> > >> Gary > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > &Features Chat, http://www.mnbsp; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com > ">http://forums.matronics.com > _p; generous bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ">http://www.matronics.com/c=============== = > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:29 AM PST US Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling From: "Hosler, John" The question was more related to cool down after landing or heat up while taxiing. That's what cowl flaps are for on larger aircraft. ________________________________ From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 9:31 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling How's the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon fiber cowling not dissipating heat well. John That's the first I have heard about that. Do you really think that the heat transfer through an aluminum cowling versus a carbon fiber or fiberglass one makes a difference, even a minor one, on the overall cooling? There are other more significant differences between the AA-5B and AG-5B that could contribute to any cooling differences. Cliff ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:00 AM PST US From: "923te" <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling One thing I don't care for is how emails that appear to be from and replied to an individual go straight to this list. It is especially hard to tell on my iPhone that this occurs. I've never heard of cowl flaps having been designed primarily for "after landing cool down and heat up during taxiing." I don't think so. In the planes I've owned that had cowl flaps the primary purpose was to reduce the FAA required cooling design for climb to a more effiecient cooling design for cruise. Less air required in cruise so the idea is to reduce drag in cruise with the cowl flaps. Can you tell me of a particular plane that has cowl flaps specifically designed for cool down and taxiing? ----- Original Message ----- From: Hosler, John To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 8:48 AM Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling The question was more related to cool down after landing or heat up while taxiing. That's what cowl flaps are for on larger aircraft. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 9:31 AM To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling How's the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon fiber cowling not dissipating heat well. John That's the first I have heard about that. Do you really think that the heat transfer through an aluminum cowling versus a carbon fiber or fiberglass one makes a difference, even a minor one, on the overall cooling? There are other more significant differences between the AA-5B and AG-5B that could contribute to any cooling differences. Cliff ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:02 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling I've never heard of cowl flaps having been designed primarily for "after landing cool down and heat up during taxiing." I don't think so. In the planes I've owned that had cowl flaps the primary purpose was to reduce the FAA required cooling design for climb to a more effiecient cooling design for cruise. Less air required in cruise so the idea is to reduce drag in cruise with the cowl flaps. Absolutely, as I pointed out in my email. Cliff ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:32 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling Under cowl temps will invariably increase immediately after landing before they start to decrease, no matter what the cowling is made of. I see this on my Bonanza and watch the oil temp increase whether or not my cowl flaps are open or closed. Most of the time I open both cowl doors after shutting down to allow the heat out, especially if it's a short turn around and I'm going to take off right away. Cowl flaps are not for this but for controlling temperatures (mainly cylinder head temp) during slow speed climb out when there is much lower air flow than during cruise. With a fast plane that cruises at a much higher speed than it climbs you will add a lot of drag at cruise speed because there will be a lot more airflow than needed for this flight condition. Having cockpit adjustable cowl flaps is very beneficial in managing this airflow and reducing cooling drag and increasing cruise speed. On my Bonanza I can see about 4 kts of speed increase by closing the cowl flaps at cruise speed condition. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Hosler, John To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 6:48 AM Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling The question was more related to cool down after landing or heat up while taxiing. That's what cowl flaps are for on larger aircraft. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 9:31 AM To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling How's the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon fiber cowling not dissipating heat well. John That's the first I have heard about that. Do you really think that the heat transfer through an aluminum cowling versus a carbon fiber or fiberglass one makes a difference, even a minor one, on the overall cooling? There are other more significant differences between the AA-5B and AG-5B that could contribute to any cooling differences. Cliff ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:22 AM PST US From: G Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling For the third day in a row, I've been unable to read my mail on AOL. This happened last year for a couple of days and it pissed me off then. This is the fourth time this year that they've fucked with the email. I've run out of patience. I've had the same email addresses on AOL since 1995. But, I need access to email for business. Please change my email to teamgrumman@yahoo.com Thanks Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2010, at 2:53 PM, G Vogt wrote: > > I've offered cowlings for sale before and no one responded. I just > sold 3 to Fletcher for real cheap so, if there is a demand, call > Fletcher. They have some at bargain basement prices. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 13, 2010, at 6:46 AM, "Andy Thomas" > wrote: > >> > >> >> Mark, >> >> put me on the list as interested and I would like a picture when >> available. Where are you located (thinking of shipping cost). >> Thanks... >> >> Andy Thomas >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark T. Mueller" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:29 AM >> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling >> >> >>> > >>> >>> I still have my old AA-5B cowling with the "split nosebowl". Paint >>> isn't great but in good condition overall, just missing a couple >>> screws on the split hardware. >>> >>> I have been saving it to build a nice little wall decoration for my >>> office and/or garage, but the Household Commander vetoed that >>> idea.... >>> >>> It was removed a few years back for my LoPresti nose install (long >>> before Gary was working on his...) >>> >>> LMK if anyone is interested. I can snap digi photos if needed. Best >>> offer + shipping. >>> >>> Mark >>> Tiger N1533R >>> >>> >>> >>> From: teamgrumman@AOL.COM >>> >>> Scott has bought the cowling. >>> >>> >>> Thanks for your interest. >>> >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:30:39 AM PST US From: G Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA-5B Cowling I first heard this myth 10 years ago on a visit to Fletchair. Sent from my iPhone On May 14, 2010, at 6:31 AM, "flyv35b" wrote: > How=99s the cooling? A lot has been said about the AG5B carbon fiber > cowling not dissipating heat well. > > John > > That's the first I have heard about that. Do you really think that > the heat transfer through an aluminum cowling versus a carbon fiber > or fiberglass one makes a difference, even a minor one, on the > overall cooling? There are other more significant differences > between the AA-5B and AG-5B that could contribute to any cooling > differences. > > Cliff > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.