Today's Message Index:
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1. 02:40 AM - Re: Installing a windshield. (FLYaDIVE)
2. 07:33 AM - Re: Installing a windshield. (flyv35b)
3. 09:24 AM - Re: Installing a windshield. (Gary Vogt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Installing a windshield. |
Hello Gary:
It has been quite a few years since did two sets of windows. And I
will probably be doing one
in the next year or so. AND you have millions of more maintenance
hours compared to myself.
I can give you my experience... Both windows were LP. They were
purchased through Fletcher.
And shipped directly from the LP factory to me or my customer. The
biggest problem I had was
removing the old sealant, especially from around the leading edge. I
used an air powered drill
and a STIFF wire wheel. The fit in both cases was perfect, no
trimming needed. I did dress
the edges of the front window with a file to remove and burrs which
could become a stress crack.
I did NOT use the 732. I did use the 832. The difference being 732
is only a sealant and
the 832 is an Adhesive/Sealant. A bit more bonding and hold. Around
the bow I used ONLY
a 1/8" thick foam tape.
The only other 'trick' I did was to mount the bow to the window BEFORE
I secured the bow
to the airframe. This way the bow has a uniform fit all around and
the foam filled the gap.
Actually I would have to say There Was No Gap. The foam was there to
weather seal the edge.
And I know you know this... Do not tighten the screws, only snug them up.
Hope this helps,
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> For years, I have preferred the C. Bailey windshield because they fit
> better. But, I've had a few complaints about distortion in the windshield.
> My windshield has a slight distortion in it if I look for it. It's been so
> long since I installed an LP Aero windshield that I really don't know if
> they have any distortion.
> Garner is always chiding me for using C. Bailey windshields. But, let's
> face it, if LP Aero made a superior windshield, I'd use theirs.
> SO . . . . I had a customer request an LP Aero windshield. Garner packed it
> up and sent it.
> I put it on the frame today for a trial fit.
> For the best bond (using RTV 732) I need a bond of around .015 inches. On a
> C. Bailey, I can get it to around .010 at the tightest edge on the trailing
> edge of the windshield bow and still have it within .025 at the leading edge
> at the tightest spots.
> Just sitting on the bow, the LP Aero windshield has a gap greater than .125
> in the two upper corners. It sits flat across the middle. No mater how I
> do it, it's going to look like shit.
> C. Bailey windshields come trim-to-fit. That means, there is a trim line
> about 1/2 inch around the windshield; too much windshield. Trimming is a
> pain in the ass.
> LP Aero windshields come trimmed to the size. Let's hope it fits.
> C. Bailey windshields can be shimmed along the front edge using a washer
> held in place by a screw through the double bead seal holes. I can shim all
> around the front edge without interfering with windshield mounting and keep
> my .015 inches gap all around the bow.
> There is no place to do the same on the LP Aero. So. . . . . I'm trying
> something new to keep my spacing. We'll see. Keep your fingers crossed.
> Someone needs to make new tooling that actually fits the windshield bow
> curve. That would be nice.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Installing a windshield. |
Barry,
Are you saying that you are NOT bonding the windshield to the bow at the
rear and just trying to bond it around the front edge? That seems opposite
of what has historically been the accepted practice. 732 is more than just
a sealant when spread over a large area. A bonded windshield/bow serves as
a pretty good roll over protection when combined with a latched canopy.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "FLYaDIVE" <flyadive@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:32 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Installing a windshield.
>
> Hello Gary:
>
> It has been quite a few years since did two sets of windows. And I
> will probably be doing one
> in the next year or so. AND you have millions of more maintenance
> hours compared to myself.
> I can give you my experience... Both windows were LP. They were
> purchased through Fletcher.
> And shipped directly from the LP factory to me or my customer. The
> biggest problem I had was
> removing the old sealant, especially from around the leading edge. I
> used an air powered drill
> and a STIFF wire wheel. The fit in both cases was perfect, no
> trimming needed. I did dress
> the edges of the front window with a file to remove and burrs which
> could become a stress crack.
> I did NOT use the 732. I did use the 832. The difference being 732
> is only a sealant and
> the 832 is an Adhesive/Sealant. A bit more bonding and hold. Around
> the bow I used ONLY
> a 1/8" thick foam tape.
> The only other 'trick' I did was to mount the bow to the window BEFORE
> I secured the bow
> to the airframe. This way the bow has a uniform fit all around and
> the foam filled the gap.
> Actually I would have to say There Was No Gap. The foam was there to
> weather seal the edge.
> And I know you know this... Do not tighten the screws, only snug them up.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> For years, I have preferred the C. Bailey windshield because they fit
>> better. But, I've had a few complaints about distortion in the
>> windshield.
>> My windshield has a slight distortion in it if I look for it. It's been
>> so
>> long since I installed an LP Aero windshield that I really don't know if
>> they have any distortion.
>> Garner is always chiding me for using C. Bailey windshields. But, let's
>> face it, if LP Aero made a superior windshield, I'd use theirs.
>> SO . . . . I had a customer request an LP Aero windshield. Garner packed
>> it
>> up and sent it.
>> I put it on the frame today for a trial fit.
>> For the best bond (using RTV 732) I need a bond of around .015 inches. On
>> a
>> C. Bailey, I can get it to around .010 at the tightest edge on the
>> trailing
>> edge of the windshield bow and still have it within .025 at the leading
>> edge
>> at the tightest spots.
>> Just sitting on the bow, the LP Aero windshield has a gap greater than
>> .125
>> in the two upper corners. It sits flat across the middle. No mater how I
>> do it, it's going to look like shit.
>> C. Bailey windshields come trim-to-fit. That means, there is a trim line
>> about 1/2 inch around the windshield; too much windshield. Trimming is a
>> pain in the ass.
>> LP Aero windshields come trimmed to the size. Let's hope it fits.
>> C. Bailey windshields can be shimmed along the front edge using a washer
>> held in place by a screw through the double bead seal holes. I can shim
>> all
>> around the front edge without interfering with windshield mounting and
>> keep
>> my .015 inches gap all around the bow.
>> There is no place to do the same on the LP Aero. So. . . . . I'm trying
>> something new to keep my spacing. We'll see. Keep your fingers crossed.
>> Someone needs to make new tooling that actually fits the windshield bow
>> curve. That would be nice.
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Installing a windshield. |
First of all, never wire wheel the windshield bow.
(1) Steel and aluminum don't mix.
(2) it tears up the aluminum
(3) the bow is anodized. the anodize is only a few thousandths deep.
I use a flat exacto knife blade and DX 330. It takes of the old RTV732 pretty
easily.
I wasn't aware of RTV 832. I'll look into it.
I've tried foam. It doesn't work as well as canopy bow seal glued to the windshield.
The gap to which I was referring is the gap between the windshield and the windshield
bow. If the windshield is not formed correctly, there is no fix for that.
I can stack to AN970 washers in the leading edge gap in the corners with
the windshield tight against the aft edge bow (i.e., 0.0 inches gap) 1 inch away.
Six inches toward the center of the windshield, there is 0.0 inches gap at
both the forward and aft edge of the windshield bow. Short of heating and reforming
the windshield, there is no cure for that.
________________________________
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 2:32:45 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Installing a windshield.
Hello Gary:
It has been quite a few years since did two sets of windows. And I
will probably be doing one
in the next year or so. AND you have millions of more maintenance
hours compared to myself.
I can give you my experience... Both windows were LP. They were
purchased through Fletcher.
And shipped directly from the LP factory to me or my customer. The
biggest problem I had was
removing the old sealant, especially from around the leading edge. I
used an air powered drill
and a STIFF wire wheel. The fit in both cases was perfect, no
trimming needed. I did dress
the edges of the front window with a file to remove and burrs which
could become a stress crack.
I did NOT use the 732. I did use the 832. The difference being 732
is only a sealant and
the 832 is an Adhesive/Sealant. A bit more bonding and hold. Around
the bow I used ONLY
a 1/8" thick foam tape.
The only other 'trick' I did was to mount the bow to the window BEFORE
I secured the bow
to the airframe. This way the bow has a uniform fit all around and
the foam filled the gap.
Actually I would have to say There Was No Gap. The foam was there to
weather seal the edge.
And I know you know this... Do not tighten the screws, only snug them up.
Hope this helps,
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> For years, I have preferred the C. Bailey windshield because they fit
> better. But, I've had a few complaints about distortion in the windshield.
> My windshield has a slight distortion in it if I look for it. It's been so
> long since I installed an LP Aero windshield that I really don't know if
> they have any distortion.
> Garner is always chiding me for using C. Bailey windshields. But, let's
> face it, if LP Aero made a superior windshield, I'd use theirs.
> SO . . . . I had a customer request an LP Aero windshield. Garner packed it
> up and sent it.
> I put it on the frame today for a trial fit.
> For the best bond (using RTV 732) I need a bond of around .015 inches. On a
> C. Bailey, I can get it to around .010 at the tightest edge on the trailing
> edge of the windshield bow and still have it within .025 at the leading edge
> at the tightest spots.
> Just sitting on the bow, the LP Aero windshield has a gap greater than .125
> in the two upper corners. It sits flat across the middle. No mater how I
> do it, it's going to look like shit.
> C. Bailey windshields come trim-to-fit. That means, there is a trim line
> about 1/2 inch around the windshield; too much windshield. Trimming is a
> pain in the ass.
> LP Aero windshields come trimmed to the size. Let's hope it fits.
> C. Bailey windshields can be shimmed along the front edge using a washer
> held in place by a screw through the double bead seal holes. I can shim all
> around the front edge without interfering with windshield mounting and keep
> my .015 inches gap all around the bow.
> There is no place to do the same on the LP Aero. So. . . . . I'm trying
> something new to keep my spacing. We'll see. Keep your fingers crossed.
> Someone needs to make new tooling that actually fits the windshield bow
> curve. That would be nice.
>
>
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