Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:24 AM - Re: Installing a windshield. (FLYaDIVE)
2. 06:40 AM - Re: Installing a windshield. (flyv35b)
3. 03:02 PM - Re: Installing a windshield. (FLYaDIVE)
4. 03:06 PM - Re: Installing a windshield. (grumpyparts)
5. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: Installing a windshield. (flyv35b)
6. 04:16 PM - Re: Re: Installing a windshield. (James Courtney)
7. 08:41 PM - Re: Installing a windshield. (Gary Vogt)
8. 09:20 PM - Re: Re: Installing a windshield. (n32romeo@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Installing a windshield. |
Good morning Cliff:
Correct - I have bonded the lower edge of the windshield all
around.... From port to starboard. I did NOT use any bond on the bow.
ONLY the screws and the one-side'd sticky foam.
I remember doing a lot of reading and some may still exist in the GG
archives about the "Special" bonding supplied with the install kit.
The issue was: Difficult to work with and it did not bond well,
BUBBLES between the bow and the plastic.
I have heard and read about the bonding helping to make a ROLL BAR out
of the window and bow. I do not know if that is realistic or not. I
was also taught to OPEN the canopy in an emergency landing to
facilitate egress. I DON'T KNOW!
What about the expansion and contraction of dissimilar materials due
to temperature changes? I'm thinking that might be the cause of
bubbles between bow & window?
The good points I have experienced are:
Ease of install.
No bubbles.
Ease of clean up.
No gap between bow and window.
AND I PRAY I will never find out if I need a roll bar or not.
NOW - There is a job for an STC ... STEEL ROLL BAR.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver'
===============================
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:29 AM, flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com> wrote:
>
> Barry,
>
> Are you saying that you are NOT bonding the windshield to the bow at the
> rear and just trying to bond it around the front edge? That seems opposite
> of what has historically been the accepted practice. 732 is more than just
> a sealant when spread over a large area. A bonded windshield/bow serves as
> a pretty good roll over protection when combined with a latched canopy.
>
> Cliff
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "FLYaDIVE" <flyadive@gmail.com>
> To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:32 AM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Installing a windshield.
>
>
>>
>> Hello Gary:
>>
>> It has been quite a few years since did two sets of windows. And I
>> will probably be doing one
>> in the next year or so. AND you have millions of more maintenance
>> hours compared to myself.
>> I can give you my experience... Both windows were LP. They were
>> purchased through Fletcher.
>> And shipped directly from the LP factory to me or my customer. The
>> biggest problem I had was
>> removing the old sealant, especially from around the leading edge. I
>> used an air powered drill
>> and a STIFF wire wheel. The fit in both cases was perfect, no
>> trimming needed. I did dress
>> the edges of the front window with a file to remove and burrs which
>> could become a stress crack.
>> I did NOT use the 732. I did use the 832. The difference being 732
>> is only a sealant and
>> the 832 is an Adhesive/Sealant. A bit more bonding and hold. Around
>> the bow I used ONLY
>> a 1/8" thick foam tape.
>> The only other 'trick' I did was to mount the bow to the window BEFORE
>> I secured the bow
>> to the airframe. This way the bow has a uniform fit all around and
>> the foam filled the gap.
>> Actually I would have to say There Was No Gap. The foam was there to
>> weather seal the edge.
>> And I know you know this... Do not tighten the screws, only snug them up.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Barry
>> "Chop'd Liver"
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> For years, I have preferred the C. Bailey windshield because they fit
>>> better. But, I've had a few complaints about distortion in the
>>> windshield.
>>> My windshield has a slight distortion in it if I look for it. It's been
>>> so
>>> long since I installed an LP Aero windshield that I really don't know if
>>> they have any distortion.
>>> Garner is always chiding me for using C. Bailey windshields. But, let's
>>> face it, if LP Aero made a superior windshield, I'd use theirs.
>>> SO . . . . I had a customer request an LP Aero windshield. Garner packed
>>> it
>>> up and sent it.
>>> I put it on the frame today for a trial fit.
>>> For the best bond (using RTV 732) I need a bond of around .015 inches. On
>>> a
>>> C. Bailey, I can get it to around .010 at the tightest edge on the
>>> trailing
>>> edge of the windshield bow and still have it within .025 at the leading
>>> edge
>>> at the tightest spots.
>>> Just sitting on the bow, the LP Aero windshield has a gap greater than
>>> .125
>>> in the two upper corners. It sits flat across the middle. No mater how I
>>> do it, it's going to look like shit.
>>> C. Bailey windshields come trim-to-fit. That means, there is a trim line
>>> about 1/2 inch around the windshield; too much windshield. Trimming is a
>>> pain in the ass.
>>> LP Aero windshields come trimmed to the size. Let's hope it fits.
>>> C. Bailey windshields can be shimmed along the front edge using a washer
>>> held in place by a screw through the double bead seal holes. I can shim
>>> all
>>> around the front edge without interfering with windshield mounting and
>>> keep
>>> my .015 inches gap all around the bow.
>>> There is no place to do the same on the LP Aero. So. . . . . I'm trying
>>> something new to keep my spacing. We'll see. Keep your fingers crossed.
>>> Someone needs to make new tooling that actually fits the windshield bow
>>> curve. That would be nice.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Installing a windshield. |
> Good morning Cliff:
>
> Correct - I have bonded the lower edge of the windshield all
> around.... From port to starboard. I did NOT use any bond on the bow.
> ONLY the screws and the one-side'd sticky foam.
I think this is backwards. The WS needs to be bonded to the bow and the one
sided sticky foam doesn't provide any bonding. What happens if you grab the
bow at the 45 degree spot and pull yourself up out of the seat. The bow
wants to pull away from the WS, twists and stress the glass at the screws,
possibly starting a crack.
> I remember doing a lot of reading and some may still exist in the GG
> archives about the "Special" bonding supplied with the install kit.
> The issue was: Difficult to work with and it did not bond well,
> BUBBLES between the bow and the plastic.
RTV732 was and still is the recommended adhesive and sealant. It is messy
to work with but there is no problem with bubbles or voids if you apply
enough of it - the excess will squeeze out. It bond well and over a large
surface area of the bow it is very strong. But the bow needs to be cleaned
very well and the plexiglass scuffed with Scotchbrite or sandpaper and Dow
Corning 1200 primer applied on both the WS and bow before applying the 732.
I know of a couple of WS installations where 3M very high bond tape (double
sided adhesive) was used very successfully for many years to bond the WS to
the bow. No messy installation, you just have to make sure the parts are
mated where you want when they are stuck togather as you won't get them
apart.
> I have heard and read about the bonding helping to make a ROLL BAR out
> of the window and bow. I do not know if that is realistic or not. I
> was also taught to OPEN the canopy in an emergency landing to
> facilitate egress. I DON'T KNOW!
> What about the expansion and contraction of dissimilar materials due
> to temperature changes? I'm thinking that might be the cause of
> bubbles between bow & window?
A roll over in a Grumman (or and RV) is always going to be a problem no
matter what you do with the canopy! If the baggage compartment is full then
getting out the baggage door will be impossible. Breaking out a back window
or canopy window may be the only way. With 4 different large exits out of
my Bonanza that's one thing I don't have to worry about!
Nope, bubbles are due to poor technique and not enough RTV applied to the
joint. The front of the WS is free to float so there is no
expansion/contraction problems. The 3 screw holes in the front edge should
be oversize so the glass does not bind on the screws and crack. Proseal can
be used externally to seal the leading edge as it is a good sealant and is
flexible enough to allow movement and not tear away. The factory used a
body seam sealer inside the lip of the coaming skin to seal the leading edge
of the WS and this can still be done this way.
Cliff
> The good points I have experienced are:
> Ease of install.
> No bubbles.
> Ease of clean up.
> No gap between bow and window.
> AND I PRAY I will never find out if I need a roll bar or not.
> NOW - There is a job for an STC ... STEEL ROLL BAR.
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver'
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Installing a windshield. |
HI Gary:
What is the DX330 you speak of, is it the cleaning material by PPG?
The anodizing on sheet aluminum is way less Than a few thousandths...
It is in the range of 1 to 3 ten-thousands...0.0001 to 0.0003" . And
yes, the wire wheel will remove the that thin a coating in a second.
Are there steel particles left behind or embedded into the aluminum?
Well from my experience in the metal coating industry NO. BUT! that
is with a NON-Rusted wire wheel and ... This is where I think the
issue of not mixing Ferrous Steel and Aluminum came from: YOU NEVER
USE THE SAME (SAND OR BEAD) BLASTING BOOT FOR STEEL AND ALUMINUM. The
extremely small particles of of ferrous steel under high
pressure/velocity become embedded into the aluminum and that begins a
corrosion/pitting spot.
And not to be nit-picky... But steel is steel... The X-Acto knife is
made of steel. But, not an issue.
We are talking about the same issue... The gap between the window and
bow. But, are you referring to a specific area, like where the bow
come into contact with the fuselage sides?
Barry
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First of all, never wire wheel the windshield bow.
> (1) Steel and aluminum don't mix.
> (2) it tears up the aluminum
> (3) the bow is anodized. the anodize is only a few thousandths deep.
> I use a flat exacto knife blade and DX 330. It takes of the old RTV732
> pretty easily.
> I wasn't aware of RTV 832. I'll look into it.
> I've tried foam. It doesn't work as well as canopy bow seal glued to the
> windshield.
> The gap to which I was referring is the gap between the windshield and the
> windshield bow. If the windshield is not formed correctly, there is no fix
> for that. I can stack to AN970 washers in the leading edge gap in the
> corners with the windshield tight against the aft edge bow (i.e., 0.0 inches
> gap) 1 inch away. Six inches toward the center of the windshield, there is
> 0.0 inches gap at both the forward and aft edge of the windshield bow.
> Short of heating and reforming the windshield, there is no cure for that.
> ________________________________
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 2:32:45 AM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Installing a windshield.
>
>
> Hello Gary:
>
> It has been quite a few years since did two sets of windows. And I
> will probably be doing one
> in the next year or so. AND you have millions of more maintenance
> hours compared to myself.
> I can give you my experience... Both windows were LP. They were
> purchased through Fletcher.
> And shipped directly from the LP factory to me or my customer. The
> biggest problem I had was
> removing the old sealant, especially from around the leading edge. I
> used an air powered drill
> and a STIFF wire wheel. The fit in both cases was perfect, no
> trimming needed. I did dress
> the edges of the front window with a file to remove and burrs which
> could become a stress crack.
> I did NOT use the 732. I did use the 832. The difference being 732
> is only a sealant and
> the 832 is an Adhesive/Sealant. A bit more bonding and hold. Around
> the bow I used ONLY
> a 1/8" thick foam tape.
> The only other 'trick' I did was to mount the bow to the window BEFORE
> I secured the bow
> to the airframe. This way the bow has a uniform fit all around and
> the foam filled the gap.
> Actually I would have to say There Was No Gap. The foam was there to
> weather seal the edge.
> And I know you know this... Do not tighten the screws, only snug them up.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> For years, I have preferred the C. Bailey windshield because they fit
>> better. But, I've had a few complaints about distortion in the
>> windshield.
>> My windshield has a slight distortion in it if I look for it. It's been
>> so
>> long since I installed an LP Aero windshield that I really don't know if
>> they have any distortion.
>> Garner is always chiding me for using C. Bailey windshields. But, let's
>> face it, if LP Aero made a superior windshield, I'd use theirs.
>> SO . . . . I had a customer request an LP Aero windshield. Garner packed
>> it
>> up and sent it.
>> I put it on the frame today for a trial fit.
>> For the best bond (using RTV 732) I need a bond of around .015 inches. On
>> a
>> C. Bailey, I can get it to around .010 at the tightest edge on the
>> trailing
>> edge of the windshield bow and still have it within .025 at the leading
>> edge
>> at the tightest spots.
>> Just sitting on the bow, the LP Aero windshield has a gap greater than
>> .125
>> in the two upper corners. It sits flat across the middle. No mater how I
>> do it, it's going to look like shit.
>> C. Bailey windshields come trim-to-fit. That means, there is a trim line
>> about 1/2 inch around the windshield; too much windshield. Trimming is a
>> pain in the ass.
>> LP Aero windshields come trimmed to the size. Let's hope it fits.
>> C. Bailey windshields can be shimmed along the front edge using a washer
>> held in place by a screw through the double bead seal holes. I can shim
>> all
>> around the front edge without interfering with windshield mounting and
>> keep
>> my .015 inches gap all around the bow.
>> There is no place to do the same on the LP Aero. So. . . . . I'm
>> trying
>> something new to keep my spacing. We'll see. Keep your fingers crossed.
>> Someone needs to make new tooling that actually fits the windshield bow
>> curve.
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Installing a windshield. |
Back in the early days did not Grumman/Gulfstream supply replacement windshields
already bonded to the bows.
If so wouldn't it be nice to have True Flight use the jigs they have to supply
pre-bonded replacement windshields. Would no doubt be expensive, but probably
no more so than the labour in the filed trying to get this task done properly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301228#301228
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Installing a windshield. |
I'll bet it would be cheaper! Sure would save a lot of labor and those
mechanics without specific experience would have chance to get it done
right.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "grumpyparts" <i.r.m@btinternet.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 3:04 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Installing a windshield.
> <i.r.m@btinternet.com>
>
> Back in the early days did not Grumman/Gulfstream supply replacement
> windshields already bonded to the bows.
>
> If so wouldn't it be nice to have True Flight use the jigs they have to
> supply pre-bonded replacement windshields. Would no doubt be expensive,
> but probably no more so than the labour in the filed trying to get this
> task done properly.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301228#301228
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Installing a windshield. |
Could even send your old bow in for credit.
Jamey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Installing a windshield.
I'll bet it would be cheaper! Sure would save a lot of labor and those
mechanics without specific experience would have chance to get it done
right.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "grumpyparts" <i.r.m@btinternet.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 3:04 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Installing a windshield.
> <i.r.m@btinternet.com>
>
> Back in the early days did not Grumman/Gulfstream supply replacement
> windshields already bonded to the bows.
>
> If so wouldn't it be nice to have True Flight use the jigs they have to
> supply pre-bonded replacement windshields. Would no doubt be expensive,
> but probably no more so than the labour in the filed trying to get this
> task done properly.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301228#301228
>
>
>
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
23:35:00
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Installing a windshield. |
The flat blade I use on the Xacto knife never even scratches the aluminum. All
it does is slice off the majority of the RTV. DX330 and a 3M scrubbie removes
the rest. Quite easily too.
DX330 is a very high grade Naptha. It's used to clean surfaces prior to painting.
I also use it in the fuel tanks prior to resealing. It's quite expensive.
I doubt the average mechanic would be inclined to use it for that reason.
It removes all traces of wax and grease and it doesn't touch the plexiglass.
Unlike MEK or acetone, it leaves no residue and is not going to eat up gloves
or the windshield.
Years ago, I put a bead of RTV around the base of a windshield on a plane I knew
leaked. I did a quick and dirty job because it was going to rain and I had
no place to put the plane. Some 3 months later I scraped off the majority of
the RTV and then went to work on the windshield with DX330. It gets under the
RTV and releases it. It took about 30 minutes and it was all clean.
Funny how difficult it is to describe how fucked up this windshield is. I'll try
to simplify it.
(1) OK boys and girls, let's pretend we are sitting in the airplane, in the pilot's
seat, with the canopy open.
(2) Pretend to run your hand along the side of the cockpit, on the top of the canopy/fuselage
opening, where the window track is.
(3) Pretend to slide your hand to the windshield. Stop.
(4) You are now at the windshield. The windshield is attached to the windshield
bow.
(5) Let's further pretend there is no double bead windshield bow seal on the on
the face of the windshield bow.
(6) At this point, you can touch, go ahead, pretend to touch the flat face of the
windshield bow that is facing you, it's OK.
(7) This surface, the windshield bow, has another surface attached to it that is
90 degrees to the face you're touching. You won't be able to touch it because
the windshield is in the way.
(8) You can, however, lean over and look through the windshield and you will most
likely see cured RTV holding the windshield to the windshield bow.
(9) This windshield "bow" goes up from this corner and makes an arc as it curves
up and over toward the center of the windshield bow. (We'll only do one side,
the right side is the same.
(10) Just for the sake of argument, let's call the halfway point, the middle of
the arc, the UPPER CORNER.
(11) Now, run your fingers along the face of the bow so you get an idea that this
is a FLAT surface.
(12) Remember boys and girls, you won't be able to touch the surface of the windshield
bow that is "under" the windshield.
(13) Now, stand up and look out over the windshield. Notice how it is formed such
that it goes forward and DOWN to the fuselage (Boot cowl)
(14) Look along the edge of the windshield where the windshield is attached to
windshield bow. You can look through the windshield and see where it's bonded
to the windshield bow.
(15) OK, here is where it gets tricky. Remember the face of the windshield bow
you ran your fingers along in step 11? Let's go back to that.
(16) The surface of the windshield bow under the windshield doesn't stay perpendicular,
90 degrees, to the face of the bow as in step 7. It's close though.
Let's leave it at that.
(17) So, that means, that for at least an inch or so along the open side of the
windshield, that windshield needs to be 90 degrees to the face of the windshield
bow also.
(18) OK boys and girls, are we all on the same page? I hope so.
(19) The windshield I got from LP Aero only maintains 90 degrees to the face of
the bow at the SIDES and at the TOP, which is also the middle of the windshield
bow.
NOTE: this is not to be confused with the middle of the arc between the
side and the top.
(20) The worst portion of this LP Aero windshield is "IN THE UPPER CORNER" or middle
of the arc. In this area, the windshield has absolutely no flat portion.
It just falls away.
(21) In the ideal world, the windshield and the windshield bow have the same shape
and the bonding surface is uniform and provides a uniform thickness for the
bond.
(22) I don't know how ya'all do this bonding, particularly with the windshield
in the plane, but, I use a feeler gauge and shims to get as close to a uniform
.020 inch gap as I can for the entire bonding surface.
(23) On a C. Bailey windshield, the worse I've seen is .035 inches.
(24) I don't care how many clamps you use, I don't care how you tighten the clamps,
there is nothing that is going to close the .125 inch between the face of
the bow and keep the forward edge of the bow from digging into the windshield.
With a minimum of .010 inches gap at the tightest location along the forward
edge of the windshield bow, the gap at the face of the bow varies from .010
to .150.
I've included some pics, I hope they come through.
1316: This is the gap on the right side. The bottom of the windshield is tight
against the bow. I.e., no gap. The gap you see a result of the windshield
being misformed. The windshield is TIGHT against the forward edge. No amount
of clamping is going to fix this. Short of heating and reforming, there is just
going to be .130 inches of gap at the UPPER CORNER.
1317: This is the left side with clamps. The gap at the forward edge of the bow
is .010 inches. The gap at the face of the bow is .140 inches.
1324: This is a shot through the edge of the windshield. It will hidden by bonding
BUT, it's still a pretty bad distortion.
________________________________
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 2:57:35 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Installing a windshield.
HI Gary:
What is the DX330 you speak of, is it the cleaning material by PPG?
The anodizing on sheet aluminum is way less Than a few thousandths...
It is in the range of 1 to 3 ten-thousands...0.0001 to 0.0003" . And
yes, the wire wheel will remove the that thin a coating in a second.
Are there steel particles left behind or embedded into the aluminum?
Well from my experience in the metal coating industry NO. BUT! that
is with a NON-Rusted wire wheel and ... This is where I think the
issue of not mixing Ferrous Steel and Aluminum came from: YOU NEVER
USE THE SAME (SAND OR BEAD) BLASTING BOOT FOR STEEL AND ALUMINUM. The
extremely small particles of of ferrous steel under high
pressure/velocity become embedded into the aluminum and that begins a
corrosion/pitting spot.
And not to be nit-picky... But steel is steel... The X-Acto knife is
made of steel. But, not an issue.
We are talking about the same issue... The gap between the window and
bow. But, are you referring to a specific area, like where the bow
come into contact with the fuselage sides?
Barry
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First of all, never wire wheel the windshield bow.
> (1) Steel and aluminum don't mix.
> (2) it tears up the aluminum
> (3) the bow is anodized. the anodize is only a few thousandths deep.
> I use a flat exacto knife blade and DX 330. It takes of the old RTV732
> pretty easily.
> I wasn't aware of RTV 832. I'll look into it.
> I've tried foam. It doesn't work as well as canopy bow seal glued to the
> windshield.
> The gap to which I was referring is the gap between the windshield and the
> windshield bow. If the windshield is not formed correctly, there is no fix
> for that. I can stack to AN970 washers in the leading edge gap in the
> corners with the windshield tight against the aft edge bow (i.e., 0.0 inches
> gap) 1 inch away. Six inches toward the center of the windshield, there is
> 0.0 inches gap at both the forward and aft edge of the windshield bow.
> Short of heating and reforming the windshield, there is no cure for that.
> ________________________________
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 2:32:45 AM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Installing a windshield.
>
>
> Hello Gary:
>
> It has been quite a few years since did two sets of windows. And I
> will probably be doing one
> in the next year or so. AND you have millions of more maintenance
> hours compared to myself.
> I can give you my experience... Both windows were LP. They were
> purchased through Fletcher.
> And shipped directly from the LP factory to me or my customer. The
> biggest problem I had was
> removing the old sealant, especially from around the leading edge. I
> used an air powered drill
> and a STIFF wire wheel. The fit in both cases was perfect, no
> trimming needed. I did dress
> the edges of the front window with a file to remove and burrs which
> could become a stress crack.
> I did NOT use the 732. I did use the 832. The difference being 732
> is only a sealant and
> the 832 is an Adhesive/Sealant. A bit more bonding and hold. Around
> the bow I used ONLY
> a 1/8" thick foam tape.
> The only other 'trick' I did was to mount the bow to the window BEFORE
> I secured the bow
> to the airframe. This way the bow has a uniform fit all around and
> the foam filled the gap.
> Actually I would have to say There Was No Gap. The foam was there to
> weather seal the edge.
> And I know you know this... Do not tighten the screws, only snug them up.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> For years, I have preferred the C. Bailey windshield because they fit
>> better. But, I've had a few complaints about distortion in the
>> windshield.
>> My windshield has a slight distortion in it if I look for it. It's been
>> so
>> long since I installed an LP Aero windshield that I really don't know if
>> they have any distortion.
>> Garner is always chiding me for using C. Bailey windshields. But, let's
>> face it, if LP Aero made a superior windshield, I'd use theirs.
>> SO . . . . I had a customer request an LP Aero windshield. Garner packed
>> it
>> up and sent it.
>> I put it on the frame today for a trial fit.
>> For the best bond (using RTV 732) I need a bond of around .015 inches. On
>> a
>> C. Bailey, I can get it to around .010 at the tightest edge on the
>> trailing
>> edge of the windshield bow and still have it within .025 at the leading
>> edge
>> at the tightest spots.
>> Just sitting on the bow, the LP Aero windshield has a gap greater than
>> .125
>> in the two upper corners. It sits flat across the middle. No mater how I
>> do it, it's going to look like shit.
>> C. Bailey windshields come trim-to-fit. That means, there is a trim line
>> about 1/2 inch around the windshield; too much windshield. Trimming is a
>> pain in the ass.
>> LP Aero windshields come trimmed to the size. Let's hope it fits.
>> C. Bailey windshields can be shimmed along the front edge using a washer
>> held in place by a screw through the double bead seal holes. I can shim
>> all
>> around the front edge without interfering with windshield mounting and
>> keep
>> my .015 inches gap all around the bow.
>> There is no place to do the same on the LP Aero. So. . . . . I'm
>> trying
>> something new to keep my spacing. We'll see. Keep your fingers crossed.
>> Someone needs to make new tooling that actually fits the windshield bow
>> curve.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Installing a windshield. |
Back in the mid '80s I purchased a new canopy and windshield for my AA-1B
from Wag-Aero that came from the Gulfstream surplus auction. These came
bonded to the bow. I still have the old original bows, and found much la
ter they come in handy in helping to bond the next replacement windshield
and canopy to the bow, by clamping the old surplus bow on the outside.
Helps provide an even clamp.
Rich Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: grumpyparts <i.r.m@btinternet.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 14, 2010 3:04 pm
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Installing a windshield.
m>
Back in the early days did not Grumman/Gulfstream supply replacement winds
hields
lready bonded to the bows.
f so wouldn't it be nice to have True Flight use the jigs they have to sup
ply
re-bonded replacement windshields. Would no doubt be expensive, but probab
ly no
ore so than the labour in the filed trying to get this task done properly.
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