Today's Message Index:
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1. 03:06 PM - LEARN! (FLYaDIVE)
2. 03:47 PM - Re: LEARN! (Doug Fortnam)
3. 08:08 PM - Re: LEARN! (Gary Vogt)
4. 10:41 PM - Re: LEARN! (James Courtney)
Message 1
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Hello Gang and Guru's:
I want to extent a learning situation that just happened to me in
hopes of saving someone out there time, money and maybe some one's
life.
I was flying a friends plane, AA5B, and we just got back to the pattern.
I announced the 45 and just as I did the engine began to run Very
Rough, Baulked and Kicked.
Landed without additional incident.
Shut down and pulled the prop through - NO COMPRESSION on #1.
Next day did a compression check - Confirmed - ZERO COMPRESSION - Air
rushing out of the exhaust.
Pulled the cylinder - Exhaust valve was missing BIG PIECES - Found
three in the exhaust pipe.
Ordered a NEW cylinder - piston, rings, wrist pin, rocker pin and buttons.
BEFORE installing the New cylinder I inspected the INTAKE PIPE and
SUMP SPIDER for any more broken parts of the valve.
Inspected with a light - my fingers and magnet. NONE FOUND!
Installed the NEW cylinder.
Did a short time start up at low RPM and all was WELL.
Taxied to the runway [1000 RPM MAX.]
Did a Run-Up all was WELL.
DO YOU KNOW WHERE I AM GOING WITH THIS?
I have a habit to do a Run-Up To Full Throttle ON the runway just
before take off.
RPM dropped from 1800 down to 1500. AND the engine Baulked Heavy.
WE AIN'T GOING NO WHERE! ! !
Taxied back.
Pulled the spark plug.
And did a Compression check.
Cyl #1 (The New one) was 60/80.
LQQKed inside and the piston had dings all over the face.
Those out there with experience KNOW what happened ...
There was a piece of Valve still in the system.
BUT WAIT!
YES, I did a Visual - Physical - and - Magnetic Inspection of the #1
Cylinder INTAKE Spider.
I think I was more PISSED than the customer. I KNOW I WAS!
I kicked myself in the ass a few dozen times.
I APOLOGIZED to the customer and PROMISED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS OF A
NEW CYLINDER. OUCH!
Not happy with my previous inspection I am my own worst critic - I
pulled off ALL the cylinders.
Upon pulling of Cyl #3--- Guess what fell out of the INTAKE ... a hunk
of valve about 3/8" across.
It TOTALLY ELUDED my inspection.
So, what do you do ... Do you do the STANDARD - Pull & Inspect as per
above or do you OPEN ALL the INTAKES?
Guess what I am going to do from now on!
And in addition I am going to pull the Carb too!
Barry
'Always a student'
A smart man learns from his mistakes - An intelligent man learns from
the mistakes of others.'
I made this one You Learn!
Message 2
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Barry,
Thanks for sharing this story!
Doug Fortnam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 6:06 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: LEARN!
Hello Gang and Guru's:
I want to extent a learning situation that just happened to me in
hopes of saving someone out there time, money and maybe some one's
life.
I was flying a friend's plane, AA5B, and we just got back to the pattern.
I announced the 45 and just as I did the engine began to run Very
Rough, Baulked and Kicked.
Landed without additional incident.
Shut down and pulled the prop through - NO COMPRESSION on #1.
Next day did a compression check - Confirmed - ZERO COMPRESSION - Air
rushing out of the exhaust.
Pulled the cylinder - Exhaust valve was missing BIG PIECES - Found
three in the exhaust pipe.
Ordered a NEW cylinder - piston, rings, wrist pin, rocker pin and buttons.
BEFORE installing the New cylinder I inspected the INTAKE PIPE and
SUMP SPIDER for any more broken parts of the valve.
Inspected with a light - my fingers and magnet. NONE FOUND!
Installed the NEW cylinder.
Did a short time start up at low RPM and all was WELL.
Taxied to the runway [1000 RPM MAX.]
Did a Run-Up all was WELL.
DO YOU KNOW WHERE I AM GOING WITH THIS?
I have a habit to do a Run-Up To Full Throttle ON the runway just
before take off.
RPM dropped from 1800 down to 1500. AND the engine Baulked Heavy.
WE AIN'T GOING NO WHERE! ! !
Taxied back.
Pulled the spark plug.
And did a Compression check.
Cyl #1 (The New one) was 60/80.
LQQKed inside and the piston had dings all over the face.
Those out there with experience KNOW what happened ...
There was a piece of Valve still in the system.
BUT WAIT!
YES, I did a Visual - Physical - and - Magnetic Inspection of the #1
Cylinder INTAKE Spider.
I think I was more PISSED than the customer. I KNOW I WAS!
I kicked myself in the ass a few dozen times.
I APOLOGIZED to the customer and PROMISED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS OF A
NEW CYLINDER. OUCH!
Not happy with my previous inspection - I am my own worst critic - I
pulled off ALL the cylinders.
Upon pulling of Cyl #3--- Guess what fell out of the INTAKE ... a hunk
of valve about 3/8" across.
It TOTALLY ELUDED my inspection.
So, what do you do ... Do you do the STANDARD - Pull & Inspect as per
above or do you OPEN ALL the INTAKES?
Guess what I am going to do from now on!
And in addition I am going to pull the Carb too!
Barry
'Always a student'
'A smart man learns from his mistakes - An intelligent man learns from
the mistakes of others.'
I made this one - You Learn!
Message 3
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I had a customer with the same experience over San Francisco bay. He made
it to San Rafael. When I pulled the cylinder, the valve head was intact in
the cylinder. Lots of dents on the piston. We opted to replace just that
cylinder and get it to Auburn. Then, all new ported and polished cylinder
s. =0A=0AYou're lucky. You might have taken off and had that chunk bounce
around in a few other cylinders as well. =0A=0AI had a turbo Corvair that
ingested a washer. It chewed up the turbo that then deposited pieces all
though the engine. What a mess. =0A=0AGary=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________
___________________=0AFrom: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>=0ATo: teamgrumman
-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Fri, July 2, 2010 3:06:00 PM=0ASubject: TeamGru
yadive@gmail.com>=0A=0AHello Gang and Guru's:=0A=0AI want to extent a learn
ing situation that just happened to me in=0Ahopes of saving someone out the
re time, money and maybe some one's=0Alife.=0A=0AI was flying a friend
=99s plane, AA5B, and we just got back to the pattern.=0AI announced the
45 and just as I did the engine began to run Very=0ARough, Baulked and Kic
ked.=0ALanded without additional incident.=0AShut down and pulled the prop
through - NO COMPRESSION on #1.=0ANext day did a compression check - Confir
med - ZERO COMPRESSION - Air=0Arushing out of the exhaust.=0APulled the cyl
inder - Exhaust valve was missing BIG PIECES - Found=0Athree in the exhaust
pipe.=0AOrdered a NEW cylinder - piston, rings, wrist pin, rocker pin and
buttons.=0A=0ABEFORE installing the New cylinder I inspected the INTAKE PIP
E and=0ASUMP SPIDER for any more broken parts of the valve.=0AInspected wit
h a light - my fingers and magnet. NONE FOUND!=0A=0AInstalled the NEW cyl
inder.=0ADid a short time start up at low RPM and all was WELL.=0ATaxied to
the runway [1000 RPM MAX.]=0ADid a Run-Up all was WELL.=0A=0ADO YOU KNOW W
HERE I AM GOING WITH THIS?=0A=0AI have a habit to do a Run-Up To Full Throt
tle ON the runway just=0Abefore take off.=0A=0ARPM dropped from 1800 down t
o 1500. AND the engine Baulked Heavy.=0A=0AWE AIN'T GOING NO WHERE! ! !=0A
=0ATaxied back.=0APulled the spark plug.=0AAnd did a Compression check.=0AC
yl #1 (The New one) was 60/80.=0ALQQKed inside and the piston had dings all
over the face.=0A=0AThose out there with experience KNOW what happened ...
=0A=0AThere was a piece of Valve still in the system.=0A=0ABUT WAIT!=0A=0AY
ES, I did a Visual - Physical - and - Magnetic Inspection of the #1=0ACylin
der INTAKE Spider.=0A=0AI think I was more PISSED than the customer. I KNO
W I WAS!=0A=0AI kicked myself in the ass a few dozen times.=0A=0AI APOLOGIZ
ED to the customer and PROMISED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS OF A=0ANEW CYLINDER
. OUCH!=0A=0ANot happy with my previous inspection =93 I am my own w
orst critic - I=0Apulled off ALL the cylinders.=0A=0AUpon pulling of Cyl #3
--- Guess what fell out of the INTAKE ... a hunk=0Aof valve about 3/8" acro
ss.=0A=0AIt TOTALLY ELUDED my inspection.=0A=0ASo, what do you do ... Do yo
u do the STANDARD - Pull & Inspect as per=0Aabove or do you OPEN ALL the IN
TAKES?=0A=0AGuess what I am going to do from now on!=0A=0AAnd in addition I
am going to pull the Carb too!=0A=0ABarry=0A'Always a student'=0A=98
A smart man learns from his mistakes - An intelligent man learns from=0Athe
=================0A=0A=0A
Message 4
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I still have the valve head in my desk drawer beside me. Not sure
I=99d call it intact but about 2/3 of it are hereJ The issue
occurred over Sausalito just after dark (ugh) on my way back from
looking at the Bonanza I ended up buying. Apparently I offended my
Tiger. The engine was at right around 1000 hours which is when the
exhaust valve issues seem to show up.
Similarly on my Porsche-Diesel tractor when we rebuilt the engine
here=99s what we saw on the head:
http://tinyurl.com/29na9nw
Little fellow swallowed a nut from the intake at some pointJ Those went
back on with lock washers and loc-tite!
Jamey
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Vogt
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: LEARN!
I had a customer with the same experience over San Francisco bay. He
made it to San Rafael. When I pulled the cylinder, the valve head was
intact in the cylinder. Lots of dents on the piston. We opted to
replace just that cylinder and get it to Auburn. Then, all new ported
and polished cylinders.
You're lucky. You might have taken off and had that chunk bounce around
in a few other cylinders as well.
I had a turbo Corvair that ingested a washer. It chewed up the turbo
that then deposited pieces all though the engine. What a mess.
Gary
_____
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 3:06:00 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: LEARN!
Hello Gang and Guru's:
I want to extent a learning situation that just happened to me in
hopes of saving someone out there time, money and maybe some one's
life.
I was flying a friend=99s plane, AA5B, and we just got back to the
pattern.
I announced the 45 and just as I did the engine began to run Very
Rough, Baulked and Kicked.
Landed without additional incident.
Shut down and pulled the prop through - NO COMPRESSION on #1.
Next day did a compression check - Confirmed - ZERO COMPRESSION - Air
rushing out of the exhaust.
Pulled the cylinder - Exhaust valve was missing BIG PIECES - Found
three in the exhaust pipe.
Ordered a NEW cylinder - piston, rings, wrist pin, rocker pin and
buttons.
BEFORE installing the New cylinder I inspected the INTAKE PIPE and
SUMP SPIDER for any more broken parts of the valve.
Inspected with a light - my fingers and magnet. NONE FOUND!
Installed the NEW cylinder.
Did a short time start up at low RPM and all was WELL.
Taxied to the runway [1000 RPM MAX.]
Did a Run-Up all was WELL.
DO YOU KNOW WHERE I AM GOING WITH THIS?
I have a habit to do a Run-Up To Full Throttle ON the runway just
before take off.
RPM dropped from 1800 down to 1500. AND the engine Baulked Heavy.
WE AIN'T GOING NO WHERE! ! !
Taxied back.
Pulled the spark plug.
And did a Compression check.
Cyl #1 (The New one) was 60/80.
LQQKed inside and the piston had dings all over the face.
Those out there with experience KNOW what happened ...
There was a piece of Valve still in the system.
BUT WAIT!
YES, I did a Visual - Physical - and - Magnetic Inspection of the #1
Cylinder INTAKE Spider.
I think I was more PISSED than the customer. I KNOW I WAS!
I kicked myself in the ass a few dozen times.
I APOLOGIZED to the customer and PROMISED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS OF A
NEW CYLINDER. OUCH!
Not happy with my previous inspection =93 I am my own worst critic
- I
pulled off ALL the cylinders.
Upon pulling of Cyl #3--- Guess what fell out of the INTAKE ... a hunk
of valve about 3/8" across.
It TOTALLY ELUDED my inspection.
So, what do you do ... Do you do the STANDARD - Pull & Inspect as per
above or do you OPEN ALL the INTAKES?
Guess what I am going to do from now on!
And in addition I am going to pull the Carb too!
Barry
'Always a student'
=98A smart man learns from his mistakes - An intelligent man
learns from
the mistakes of others.'
I made this one =93 You Learn!
http://www.ma <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List> "
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhttp://ww
w.matronics.com/co===================
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11:35:00
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