Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:48 PM - Cylinder Head Temps (busdriver)
2. 02:14 PM - Re: Cylinder Head Temps (Scott)
3. 02:22 PM - Re: Cylinder Head Temps (Rod Nohr, PE)
4. 03:20 PM - Re: Cylinder Head Temps (Rod Nohr, PE)
5. 03:58 PM - Thanks to the Grumman Gang (ArjayS@AOL.COM)
6. 07:22 PM - Re: Thanks to the Grumman Gang (Brian Hausknecht)
7. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: Thanks to the Grumman Gang (ArjayS@aol.com)
8. 10:25 PM - Re: Cylinder Head Temps (Gary Vogt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Cylinder Head Temps |
What should the cylinder head temperatures indicate on a later model AG5B with
good seals/ baffles? Everything I have read says to keep the CHTs below 400 degrees,
but I am not having much success. #4 is running 420- 430 in the climb
with #3 not far behind- I am using a brand new JPI EDM-700 for monitoring. Im
climbing full throttle and full rich mixture at 100kts+ airspeed. Even in cruise,
the temps dont decrease significantly is this normal for a Tiger?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305217#305217
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cylinder Head Temps |
That sounds about right. I have a 1976 Tiger, I've been flying this plane for
10yrs and the temps have always been high. New engine, baffles 3 yrs ago. Same
temps. I'm looking at the new cowling Gary has. I have always thought the
exit ramps in the cowling are not designed right. Not enough out flow air.
Just my opinion.
Scott
N499GT
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2010, at 12:47 PM, "busdriver" <clmiller@netzero.net> wrote:
>
> What should the cylinder head temperatures indicate on a later model AG5B with
good seals/ baffles? Everything I have read says to keep the CHTs below 400
degrees, but I am not having much success. #4 is running 420- 430 in the climb
with #3 not far behind- I am using a brand new JPI EDM-700 for monitoring.
Im climbing full throttle and full rich mixture at 100kts+ airspeed. Even in
cruise, the temps dont decrease significantly is this normal for a Tiger?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305217#305217
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Cylinder Head Temps |
Our Grumman easily stays with 350 to 400 degree head temps,,,,, when we h
ad heating problems after an annual, the problems were from advanced magn
ito timing... Our grummna seems to advance a bit on timing with hours and
wear. . so we have timing carefully checked each annual.. rod
-----Original Message-----
From: busdriver [mailto:clmiller@netzero.net]
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 03:47 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cylinder Head Temps
der head temperatures indicate on a later model AG5B with good seals/ baf
fles? Everything I have read says to keep the CHT=99s below 400 deg
rees, but I am not having much success. #4 is running 420- 430 in the cli
mb with #3 not far behind- I am using a brand new JPI EDM-700 for monitor
ing. I=99m climbing full throttle and full rich mixture at 100kts+
airspeed. Even in cruise, the temps don=99t decrease significantly
is this normal for a Tiger?Read this topic online here:http://foru
==================
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cylinder Head Temps |
Our 75 grumman tiger , before we got it 7 or 8 years ago, had a field app
roval/337 done with a little faring angle added to the cowl. Supposed to
help draw air out....
Also ,, on a big fletchair annual a couple years ago (great people),,,, t
hey found the wrong oil cooler installed,, installed the right one and oi
l temps have been more to the 350 range rather than 400 since....
rod
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Nohr, PE [mailto:r.nohr@nohrengineering.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 04:19 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cylinder Head Temps
Our Grumman easily stays with 350 to 400 degree head temps,,,,, when we h
ad heating problems after an annual, the problems were from advanced magn
ito timing... Our grummna seems to advance a bit on timing with hours and
wear. . so we have timing carefully checked each annual.. rod
-----Original Message-----
From: busdriver [mailto:clmiller@netzero.net]
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 03:47 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cylinder Head Temps
der head temperatures indicate on a later model AG5B with good seals/ baf
fles? Everything I have read says to keep the CHT=99s below 400 deg
rees, but I am not having much success. #4 is running 420- 430 in the cli
mb with #3 not far behind- I am using a brand new JPI EDM-700 for monitor
ing. I=99m climbing full throttle and full rich mixture at 100kts+
airspeed. Even in cruise, the temps don=99t decrease significantly
is this normal for a Tiger?Read this topic online here:http://foru
==================
Message 5
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| Subject: | Thanks to the Grumman Gang |
Hello, to all and thanks to all for your hospitality at the Convention.-
-
My name is Rj Siegel and I'm the new CEO at LoPresti. For those that know
me, you know I'm a Grumman nut. There are three reasons. 1. I love to fly
with the canopy open. 2.Having worked with Roy, I love the design. 3. I am
world class cheap. (Ask my kids).-
If ever there were a group of aviators that share my sensibilities, the
Grumman Gang is it. I can't be two faced about this. If I want to help kee
p our
birds flying I need to make special considerations for that fact.-
-
I'm going to come to the group and ask you what products you want us to
work on. We'll see if the price is good and if so, we'll make the product.
If
not, we'll go on to something else. We're working on a set of wheelpants
that
can give us substantial drag reduction, but the market is small and they
will be pricey. When we finally nail down the price we'll ask you, Yea or
nay.
That will be our process ongoing.-
-
Also, we will offer periodically some special prices that I guarantee you
will get first. In most cases you will be the ONLY group to get these pric
es
because they require a minimum of 10 orders. To start this off, I will off
er
up our Cowl. I'm not gonna be a sales guy here. I'm an engineer so here is
what I know. The cooling is improved and if you have a PowerFlow you shoul
d
have our cowl. The air induction is improved, so you will see a 200 RPM
improvement in max cruise. The drag reduction is such that you will see be
tween
3-5 knots improvement at max throttle. But mostly...your bird will no long
er
look like it came from the late 50's.-
-
We're improving the design and construction, so the new cowls will be a bi
t
lighter and more finished. The retail price is $4000 and the deal I will
give the group is $2900. Most importantly, there is a 100% money back
guarantee. If you are not satisfied for any reason, you get your money bac
k.
Period.-
-
Finally, there is no one to hit up for ANY communication that comes from
our company but ME. If you have an issue with anything we do...here's my
private cell number 414-793-6676. Please remember I'm happily married, I
have
kids and I have a life. I may not always be available but I will get back
to
you.-
-
Thank you again and Cheers!-
-
Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering-
-
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Thanks to the Grumman Gang |
Bravo. I, for one, am very impressed with your message and offer, RJ.
Hope our members/users respect your reasonable ground-rules.
Exciting to hear from you and looking forward to seeing you as a
long-term active member of our supplier base for original parts and
performance enhancing improvements.
Now, as an avid "Grumman nut", you know that the nosebowl is different
from the cowl. Can you confirm you are actually talking about the
Lopresti nosebowl? And is it the new lighter design you mentioned?
Sounds intriguing, for cooling and drag improvement. Looks pretty
close to the $1,000 per knot performance metric.
Cheers!
--Brian
> If ever there were a group of aviators that share my sensibilities, the
> Grumman Gang is it. I can't be two faced about this. If I want to help keep
> our
> birds flying I need to make special considerations for that fact.
>To start this off, I will offer
> up our Cowl. I'm not gonna be a sales guy here. I'm an engineer so here is
> what I know. The cooling is improved and if you have a PowerFlow you should
> have our cowl. The air induction is improved, so you will see a 200 RPM
> improvement in max cruise. The drag reduction is such that you will see
> between
> 3-5 knots improvement at max throttle. But mostly...your bird will no longer
> look like it came from the late 50's.
>
> We're improving the design and construction, so the new cowls will be a bit
> lighter and more finished. The retail price is $4000 and the deal I will
> give the group is $2900. Most importantly, there is a 100% money back
> guarantee. If you are not satisfied for any reason, you get your money back.
> Period.
>
> Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Thanks to the Grumman Gang |
Hi Brian
Hoisted on my own petard! Yes, I mean our nose bowl. And while I'm at it
let me put in a plug for AU Country's cowl. He's done a very good job. I
really admire his tenacity, because I know how tough it is to get approval
s for a
large company much less a one man band. In fact we actually started with
a
complete cowl redesign 20 years ago and decided to take the nose bowl
approach because we got the lions share of the improvement at a far lower
price
point. (Discretion being the better part of valor...)
Finally, yes all future cowls will have a "kaizan" approach. (continuous
improvement). Lighter, better, faster...maybe even sexier.....
Cheers!
Rj
> bhauskne@gmail.com>
>
> Bravo.- I, for one, am very impressed with your message and offer, RJ.
> Hope our members/users respect your reasonable ground-rules.
> Exciting to hear from you and looking forward to seeing you as a
> long-term active member of our supplier base for original parts and
> performance enhancing improvements.
>
> Now, as an avid "Grumman nut", you know that the nosebowl is different
> from the cowl.- Can you confirm you are actually talking about the
> Lopresti nosebowl?- And is it the new lighter design you mentioned?
> Sounds intriguing, for cooling and drag improvement. Looks pretty
> close to the $1,000 per knot performance metric.
>
> Cheers!
> --Brian
>
>
>
> > If ever there were a group of aviators that share my sensibilities, th
e
> > Grumman Gang is it. I can't be two faced about this. If I want to help
> keep
> > our
> > birds flying I need to make special considerations for that fact.
> >To start this off, I will offer
> > up our Cowl. I'm not gonna be a sales guy here. I'm an engineer so her
e
> is
> > what I know. The cooling is improved and if you have a PowerFlow you
> should
> > have our cowl. The air induction is improved, so you will see a 200 RP
M
> > improvement in max cruise. The drag reduction is such that you will se
e
> > between
> > 3-5 knots improvement at max throttle. But mostly...your bird will no
> longer
> > look like it came from the late 50's.
> >
> > We're improving the design and construction, so the new cowls will be
a
> bit
> > lighter and more finished. The retail price is $4000 and the deal I wi
ll
> > give the group is $2900. Most importantly, there is a 100% money back
> > guarantee. If you are not satisfied for any reason, you get your money
> back.
> > Period.
> >
> > Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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Dralle, List Admin.
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>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cylinder Head Temps |
Hi BusDriver,=0A=0AThanks for the information. Most folks with 'high' CHTs
never say what or how =0Athey are measuring the temps. =0A=0AI've done si
de-by-side testing with a JPI 800 and and EI UBG 16 installed =0Aside-by-si
de. The EI was set up to monitor the #3 CHT with the JPI monitoring =0Athe
rest. Both instruments had there own dedicated circuit breaker and they
=0Aboth used the same ground; the grounding lug on the engine mount.=0A=0AB
efore engine start, all EGTs and CHTs read about the same. Soon after engi
ne =0Astart, the JPI started increasing in temp over the EI. By the time I
would get =0Ato the run-up area, the CHTs on the EI were 30-40 degrees low
er. In a climb the =0AJPI increased more, faster, than the EI. In cruise,
I would see as Hi as 80 =0Adegrees less on the EI gauge. =0A=0AThere are
several differences between the systems. =0A=0AThe EI uses a probe that me
asures the temp of the air in the cylinder head CHT =0Awell.=0AThe JPI uses
a probe that reaches all the way to the end of the CHT well and =0Aactuall
y touches the aluminum.=0A=0AAnd, possibly more importantly, =0A=0AThe EI u
ses ungrounded probes.=0AThe JPI uses Grounded probes.=0A=0AIf you install
just one probe in an EI system, the rest all read a reference =0Atemperatur
e; the reference temp is the temp of the monitoring unit itself. =0AThe pr
oblem with using a reference temperature is that the reference temperature
=0Adoesn't always give an accurate reading.=0A=0AIf you install just one ga
uge on the JPI, the rest read, "Open Probe."=0A=0AI regularly see 450 degre
es on climb-out. 450 degrees is about 380-390 on an =0AEI. =0A=0AI genera
lly set up for 420 degrees in cruise. 420 degrees is about 350 on an =0AEI
. =0A=0AIf it makes you feel any better, the testing done at Lycoming used
ungrounded =0Aprobes.=0A=0AGary=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0AFrom: busdriver <clmiller@netzero.net>=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.
com=0ASent: Sat, July 17, 2010 1:47:53 PM=0ASubject: TeamGrumman-List: Cyli
lmiller@netzero.net>=0A=0AWhat should the cylinder head temperatures indica
te on a later model AG5B with =0Agood seals/ baffles? Everything I have re
ad says to keep the CHT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s below 400 =0Adegrees, but
I am not having much success. #4 is running 420- 430 in the climb =0Awith
#3 not far behind- I am using a brand new JPI EDM-700 for monitoring. =0AI
=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m climbing full throttle and full rich mixture at 1
00kts+ airspeed. Even in =0Acruise, the temps don=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t
decrease significantly=C3=A2=82=AC=C2 is this normal for a Tiger?=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/v
-========================
============0A=0A=0A
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