Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: AYA 2010 (Tim White)
2. 07:50 AM - Re: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts (923te)
3. 08:04 AM - Re: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts (ArjayS@AOL.COM)
4. 08:12 AM - Re: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts (Tom Quinn)
5. 09:01 AM - Re: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts (923te)
6. 06:42 PM - Main gear faring & speed. (Bob Hodo)
7. 07:32 PM - Re: Main gear faring & speed. (Gary Vogt)
8. 09:23 PM - Re: Main gear faring & speed. (Bob Hodo)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: re: AYA 2010 |
Not even 1200'
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: re: AYA 2010
Hi Bob,
Ahh, yes, the Rockies. For the first 21 years of my life, 12,000
mountains were
my security blanket. My first solo cross country (in an AA1B) was
from Salt
Lake City to Burley, Idaho and back. For the first 4 years after I
got my
pilots license, I never leveled off below 5500 feet. After I got my
pilots
license, my plane of choice were Cheetahs, 26661, 9833U, 26685, and
26266. I
felt uncomfortable flying below 6500 feet. (real easy to join the
mile high
club . . . . . ) A quick flight for me was to Rock Springs, Wyoming
(Wild-oming). I can't even begin to describe the hours I spent
scud-running in
the mountains East of Salt Lake City. I routinely flew over 12,000
foot
mountains to the East to 'buzz' my folks while they were fishing at
Strawberry
Reservoir, Echo Reservoir, Rockport Reservoir, and many others. In
the winter,
I'd fly up to Alta, Snow Bird, Park City, and other ski resorts
(sometimes at
night) to watch the skiers.
In the early 80's, I flew to Concorde, California to visit a friend.
Concorde
is at sea-level. It took 3 attempts to get close enough to land. The
air was
so fat at sea-level that I couldn't get down. From Concorde, I flew
to Merced
(where I was stationed in the Air Force) to visit another friend.
Merced is at
188 feet. I climbed out of Concorde to 7500 feet to fly the 180 miles
to
Merced. "People don't actually fly at 3500 feet! Do they?" It took
me a long
time to get down from 7500 feet once I got to Merced.
On another trip in the early 80's, a friend and I flew to Jackson
Hole, Wyoming.
I can tell you there is nothing quite as breath taking as seeing
mountains
rising over 8,000 feet above the valley floor. If you never do
anything else,
go see the Grand Tetons of Wyoming.
In 2002, I flew my Citabria from Lancaster, CA to the AYA in Cody,
Wyoming. I
met up with three Grummans flying from SoCal to Cody. We all spent
the night in
Salt Lake City. The 3 Grummans were going to fly toward Cheyenne to
avoid the
highest mountains. I planned to fly direct. My goal: stay below
10,500 feet.
Somewhere in the middle of Wyoming, I flew at 250 AGL over a farm on
top of a
mountain. Eventually, I had to go to 11,700 to clear the final range
into Cody.
I beat the Grummans to Cody by 2 hours.
I'll bet if you climbed to 12,000 feet over Florida, you could see
both coasts.
Gary
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@YAHOO.COM>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 8:58:42 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: re: AYA 2010
Yeah, I don't know, Gary. The Rockies have been a headache for
east-west travel for quite a while now, I guess. I dropped in for a day
and a half at Baraboo. I have stayed far away from AYA politics and
policies because I have been neck deep in that kind of thing in a
previous life.
Of over 50,000 people who have been members of the National
Knife Collector's Association, (NKCA) yours truly is the only one who
was ever kicked out. I was the youngest person ever elected to their
board of directors. I'm not sure if they exist anymore. One of the
most controversial things that ever came up was a name change for the
outfit. Go figure.
But it taught me a lot about human behavior. It is strange to
me that people will spend money like water when it is not their money.
It is strange to me that even businesses don't put themselves inside the
head of their target audience to see if a purchase from them would make
sense at all. Garmin, for example, has gone out it's way to make it
clear to me that I am an idiot if I ever buy anything from them, and
they will treat me like one.
I belong to the AYA out of a sense of obligation to them, not
because of any service they provide for me. I plan to remain a silent
supporter. I get along well with, and enjoy the company of most of the
people I have met there. Some of the one's I cannot hold a conversation
with are still a source of amusement.
And I love the airplane.
Bob Hodo
GADsden, AL
cheetaaahhh
--- On Wed, 7/21/10, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: re: AYA 2010
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 10:22 PM
So, it will be 8 years since an AYA convention was in the
west.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@YAHOO.COM>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 1:57:10 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: re: AYA 2010
Is this because
- nobody is willing to put a meeting together in the
West
- nobody is willing to put a meeting together at
all, or
- something else?
I think Dayton was a Central location, and SSI will be
an Eastern location so, if my understanding is correct, the 2012
convention would again be a Central location, and the convention won't
go "West" again until 2013.
Bob Hodo
http: --> http://forums.matrowww.matronics.com/contribution>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts |
Sounds like it would be cheaper to upgrade to the same bulb that Cirrus uses
:
Reply |jknoll Posted: 27 Jun 2010 18:35 | In reply to cloprest
rated by 0 users
Rj Siegel:
Hmmmmm As always, there is rarely any such thing as over communicating f
or clarification. Thanks for reminding me!
X2's have 2-3 times more light than stock.
X3's have 65% more light than X2's
1. Early, early, early round lights .... No upgrade path if they are in the
air cleaner box.
2. Slightly later round lights... We made special X3 system which replaces e
verything. New HID BoomBeam, igniter, reflector, focused lens, all appropria
te wires, ballast ass'y. mount hardware, manual and snickers bar. $949.00 (
$799.00 in groups of 10).
3. Rectangular lights... X2 with HID BoomBeam, ignitor, focused lens, custo
m designed reflector, tuneable for distance and of course, snickers bar.
was $649, now special price $499
4. Rectangular lights... X3! with HID BoomBeam, ignitor, focused lens, cust
om designed reflector, tuneable for distance, wires, custom ballast and of c
ourse, snickers bar. $949 ($799 in groups of 10)
5. Upgrade from X2 to X3 (meaning if you bought an X2 we're giving you a spe
cial price for the upgrade. $499
Hope that's clear!
Cheers!
Rj
On Jul 24, 2010, at 11:02 PM, ArjayS@AOL.COM wrote:
> Hi Guys
> Since the day I returned from the AYA convention, I've been trying to figu
re out how to best synchronize with the needs of the Grumman membership. For
the longest time, we only offered one lighting product, with the caveat "Ta
ke it or leave it". (Not a very enlightened position).
> I'm changing that immediately. We're (AYA) a diverse group and our needs a
nd wants differ wildly. So that's why I've been querying the group over the l
ast week or so. You have educated me. This is my first formal stab at meetin
g needs based on what I've learned so far.
>
> FOUR Products
> 1. X3 System. Huge light output. Latest technology $1400 ($1199.00 during
Oshkosh)
> 2. BoomBeam=84=A2 STD. Pricing reduced to $699. ($599 during Oshkosh)
> 3. Upgrade for old BB owners to X3 System $699 ($599 during Oshkosh)
> 4. Refurbished STD BB Systems $499 ($399 during Oshkosh) 3 year 3000hr gua
rantee.
>
> My intent is clearly to be much more responsive to the group. Let's hope t
his is a really good start!
> Thanks and Cheers!
>
> Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts |
Won't work. Different design, different reflector and 28 volts
> Sounds like it would be cheaper to upgrade to the same bulb that Cirrus
> uses:
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts |
Sounds like the only light that will fit a stock AA5 (without cutting
holes to accommodate the light) is the original BB?
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 923te
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts
Sounds like it would be cheaper to upgrade to the same bulb that Cirrus
uses:
<http://www.cirruspilots.org/forums/AddPost.aspx?ReplyToPostID=517608&Q
uote=False> Reply |
<http://www.cirruspilots.org/forums/p/119491/517608.aspx#517608>
<http://www.cirruspilots.org/members/jknoll/default.aspx> jknoll Posted:
27 Jun 2010 18:35 |
<http://www.cirruspilots.org/forums/p/119491/517589.aspx#517589> In
reply to cloprest
<http://www.cirruspilots.org/Secure/Membership/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2f
forums%2ft%2f119491.aspx> rated by 0 users
<http://www.cirruspilots.org/Themes/copa/images/icon-quote.gif> Rj
Siegel:
Hmmmmm As always, there is rarely any such thing as over
communicating for clarification. Thanks for reminding me!
X2's have 2-3 times more light than stock.
X3's have 65% more light than X2's
1. Early, early, early round lights .... No upgrade path if they are in
the air cleaner box.
2. Slightly later round lights... We made special X3 system which
replaces everything. New HID BoomBeam, igniter, reflector, focused lens,
all appropriate wires, ballast ass'y. mount hardware, manual and
snickers bar. $949.00 ($799.00 in groups of 10).
3. Rectangular lights... X2 with HID BoomBeam, ignitor, focused lens,
custom designed reflector, tuneable for distance and of course, snickers
bar.
was $649, now special price $499
4. Rectangular lights... X3! with HID BoomBeam, ignitor, focused lens,
custom designed reflector, tuneable for distance, wires, custom ballast
and of course, snickers bar. $949 ($799 in groups of 10)
5. Upgrade from X2 to X3 (meaning if you bought an X2 we're giving you a
special price for the upgrade. $499
Hope that's clear!
Cheers!
Rj
On Jul 24, 2010, at 11:02 PM, ArjayS@AOL.COM wrote:
Hi Guys
Since the day I returned from the AYA convention, I've been trying to
figure out how to best synchronize with the needs of the Grumman
membership. For the longest time, we only offered one lighting product,
with the caveat "Take it or leave it". (Not a very enlightened
position).
I'm changing that immediately. We're (AYA) a diverse group and our needs
and wants differ wildly. So that's why I've been querying the group over
the last week or so. You have educated me. This is my first formal stab
at meeting needs based on what I've learned so far.
FOUR Products
1. X3 System. Huge light output. Latest technology $1400 ($1199.00
during Oshkosh)
2. BoomBeam=84=A2 STD. Pricing reduced to $699. ($599 during Oshkosh)
3. Upgrade for old BB owners to X3 System $699 ($599 during Oshkosh)
4. Refurbished STD BB Systems $499 ($399 during Oshkosh) 3 year 3000hr
guarantee.
My intent is clearly to be much more responsive to the group. Let's hope
this is a really good start!
Thanks and Cheers!
Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering
=========
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
=========
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
=========
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts |
The AG5B uses 28v and rectangular lenses
Do you have an upgrade path?
On Jul 25, 2010, at 10:04 AM, ArjayS@AOL.COM wrote:
> Won't work. Different design, different reflector and 28 volts
>
>
>> Sounds like it would be cheaper to upgrade to the same bulb that Cirrus u
ses:
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Main gear faring & speed. |
Didn't want to hi-jack Gene's question to those who have his wheel pants, s
o...
Over a year ago when I finally got the cheetah back in the air, my first fl
ight did not have the main gear brake faring or the wheel pants installed.
- The sump covers were in place IIRC.
All=0A my stuff is the heavy ABS factory stuff, and I was surprised that I
was=0A actually 3 1/2 knots faster on the next flight after installing them
.- =0ASince I meant to test this, it was the only thing that changed betw
een =0Athe two flights.
We all know the design of the factory stuff =0Aleaves a lot on the table.
- That is why Fletchair has their new ones, =0AGene has his, and Gary Vog
t is well on the way to his, and last but not =0Aleast, LoPresti even has a
version with a retractable cover for the =0Abottom beneath the tire itself
.
I wonder if you have a Tiger with MT prop=0A and these wheel pants you will
be able to log all your time as "complex".- Don't see why not.
One=0A reason that LoPresti and Gary and Gene cannot guarantee any specific
=0Aincrease to the fleet is that our aircraft are widely different from on
e=0A serial number to the next in performance, and this is because there ar
e=0A just too many variables.
More than one person has complained =0Aabout the low speed of their plane,
only for the GG to find out they =0Awere reading indicated airspeed without
any conversion to TAS or even =0Areference to their GPS ground speed avera
ges.
Without=0A the long explanation, do understand that on the AA5-x, reducing
drag =0Abelow the main wing will help much more than the very same drag =0A
reduction above the wing.- So cleaning up the gear on N477BG will be a
=0Apriority for me before SSI.
I'd be very interested to know the speed difference with and without your m
ain gear pants on any plane where it has been tested,=0A and also which pan
ts were used.
Bob Hodo
GADsden, AL
Grumman Owner and Pilot!
=0A=0A=0A
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Main gear faring & speed. |
Five or six years ago, a friend of mine who was anxious to go fast, moved the
sumps on his 74 Traveler, installed wheel pants and all of the Cheetah/Tiger
fairings. I think (Bobby, correct me if I'm wrong) he gained about 5 knots.
Over the next few months, we removed the big ELT antenna from the vertical
(filled the holes smooth), buried an antenna in the dorsal fin, and installed a
flush rudder cap. When all was said and done, we'd gained about 10-12 knots.
The reason I don't post any promised speed increases is because it's too easy
for someone to say, "BULLSHIT." Besides, I'd have to change the POH and that's
a real pain.
I flew 28840 this last weekend. It's pretty dirty as far as antennas and junk
hanging off the plane. Straight and level at 2500 feet and 2730 rpm on a
digital tach, it trued at 142. 28840 is the first plane I restored from nose to
tail.
________________________________
From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@YAHOO.COM>
Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 6:40:15 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Main gear faring & speed.
Didn't want to hi-jack Gene's question to those who have his wheel pants, so...
Over a year ago when I finally got the cheetah back in the air, my first flight
did not have the main gear brake faring or the wheel pants installed. The sump
covers were in place IIRC.
All my stuff is the heavy ABS factory stuff, and I was surprised that I was
actually 3 1/2 knots faster on the next flight after installing them. Since I
meant to test this, it was the only thing that changed between the two flights.
We all know the design of the factory stuff leaves a lot on the table. That is
why Fletchair has their new ones, Gene has his, and Gary Vogt is well on the
way to his, and last but not least, LoPresti even has a version with a
retractable cover for the bottom beneath the tire itself.
I wonder if you have a Tiger with MT prop and these wheel pants you will be
able to log all your time as "complex". Don't see why not.
One reason that LoPresti and Gary and Gene cannot guarantee any specific
increase to the fleet is that our aircraft are widely different from one serial
number to the next in performance, and this is because there are just too many
variables.
More than one person has complained about the low speed of their plane, only
for the GG to find out they were reading indicated airspeed without any
conversion to TAS or even reference to their GPS ground speed averages.
Without the long explanation, do understand that on the AA5-x, reducing drag
below the main wing will help much more than the very same drag reduction above
the wing. So cleaning up the gear on N477BG will be a priority for me before
SSI.
I'd be very interested to know the speed difference with and without your main
gear pants on any plane where it has been tested, and also which pants were
used.
Bob Hodo
GADsden, AL
Grumman Owner and Pilot!
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Main gear faring & speed. |
But Gary, 28840 is a Tiger, no?
--- On Sun, 7/25/10, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Main gear faring & speed.
Five or six years ago, a friend of mine who was anxious to go fast, moved t
he sumps on his 74 Traveler, installed wheel pants and all of the Cheetah/T
iger fairings. -I think (Bobby, correct me if I'm wrong) he gained about
5 knots. -Over the next few months, we removed the big ELT antenna from t
he vertical (filled the holes smooth), buried an antenna in the dorsal fin,
and installed a flush rudder cap. -When all was said and done, we'd gain
ed about 10-12 knots. -
The reason I don't post any promised speed increases is because it's too ea
sy for someone to say, "BULLSHIT." -Besides, I'd have to change the POH a
nd that's a real pain.
I flew 28840 this last weekend. -It's pretty dirty as far as antennas and
junk=0A hanging off the plane. -Straight and level at 2500 feet and 2730
rpm on a digital tach, it trued at 142. -28840 is the first plane I rest
ored from nose to tail.
From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@YAHOO.COM>
Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 6:40:15 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Main gear faring & speed.
=0ADidn't want to hi-jack Gene's question to those who have his wheel pants
, so...
Over a year ago when I finally got the cheetah back in the air, my first fl
ight did not have the main gear brake faring or the wheel pants installed.
- The sump covers were in place IIRC.
All=0A my stuff is the heavy ABS factory stuff, and I was surprised that I
was=0A actually 3 1/2 knots faster on the next flight after installing them
.- =0ASince I meant to test this, it was the only thing that changed betw
een =0Athe two flights.
We all know the design of the factory stuff =0Aleaves a lot on the table.
- That is why Fletchair has their new ones, =0AGene has his, and Gary Vog
t is well on the way to his, and last but not =0Aleast, LoPresti even has a
version with a retractable cover for the =0Abottom beneath the tire itself
.
I wonder if you have a Tiger with MT prop=0A and these wheel pants you will
be able to log all your time as "complex".- Don't see why not.
One=0A reason that LoPresti and Gary and Gene cannot guarantee any specific
=0Aincrease to the fleet is that our aircraft are widely different from on
e=0A serial number to the next in performance, and this is because there ar
e=0A just too many variables.
More than one person has complained =0Aabout the low speed of their plane,
only for the GG to find out they =0Awere reading indicated airspeed without
any conversion to TAS or even =0Areference to their GPS ground speed avera
ges.
Without=0A the long explanation, do understand that on the AA5-x, reducing
drag =0Abelow the main wing will help much more than the very same drag =0A
reduction above the wing.- So cleaning up the gear on N477BG will be a
=0Apriority for me before SSI.
I'd be very interested to know the speed difference with and without your m
ain gear pants on any plane where it has been tested,=0A and also which pan
ts were used.
Bob Hodo
GADsden, AL
Grumman Owner and Pilot!
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A
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