---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/25/10: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: AYA 2010 (Tim White) 2. 07:50 AM - Re: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts (923te) 3. 08:04 AM - Re: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts (ArjayS@AOL.COM) 4. 08:12 AM - Re: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts (Tom Quinn) 5. 09:01 AM - Re: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts (923te) 6. 06:42 PM - Main gear faring & speed. (Bob Hodo) 7. 07:32 PM - Re: Main gear faring & speed. (Gary Vogt) 8. 09:23 PM - Re: Main gear faring & speed. (Bob Hodo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:10 AM PST US From: "Tim White" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: re: AYA 2010 Not even 1200' ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Vogt To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 2:04 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: re: AYA 2010 Hi Bob, Ahh, yes, the Rockies. For the first 21 years of my life, 12,000 mountains were my security blanket. My first solo cross country (in an AA1B) was from Salt Lake City to Burley, Idaho and back. For the first 4 years after I got my pilots license, I never leveled off below 5500 feet. After I got my pilots license, my plane of choice were Cheetahs, 26661, 9833U, 26685, and 26266. I felt uncomfortable flying below 6500 feet. (real easy to join the mile high club . . . . . ) A quick flight for me was to Rock Springs, Wyoming (Wild-oming). I can't even begin to describe the hours I spent scud-running in the mountains East of Salt Lake City. I routinely flew over 12,000 foot mountains to the East to 'buzz' my folks while they were fishing at Strawberry Reservoir, Echo Reservoir, Rockport Reservoir, and many others. In the winter, I'd fly up to Alta, Snow Bird, Park City, and other ski resorts (sometimes at night) to watch the skiers. In the early 80's, I flew to Concorde, California to visit a friend. Concorde is at sea-level. It took 3 attempts to get close enough to land. The air was so fat at sea-level that I couldn't get down. From Concorde, I flew to Merced (where I was stationed in the Air Force) to visit another friend. Merced is at 188 feet. I climbed out of Concorde to 7500 feet to fly the 180 miles to Merced. "People don't actually fly at 3500 feet! Do they?" It took me a long time to get down from 7500 feet once I got to Merced. On another trip in the early 80's, a friend and I flew to Jackson Hole, Wyoming. I can tell you there is nothing quite as breath taking as seeing mountains rising over 8,000 feet above the valley floor. If you never do anything else, go see the Grand Tetons of Wyoming. In 2002, I flew my Citabria from Lancaster, CA to the AYA in Cody, Wyoming. I met up with three Grummans flying from SoCal to Cody. We all spent the night in Salt Lake City. The 3 Grummans were going to fly toward Cheyenne to avoid the highest mountains. I planned to fly direct. My goal: stay below 10,500 feet. Somewhere in the middle of Wyoming, I flew at 250 AGL over a farm on top of a mountain. Eventually, I had to go to 11,700 to clear the final range into Cody. I beat the Grummans to Cody by 2 hours. I'll bet if you climbed to 12,000 feet over Florida, you could see both coasts. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Bob Hodo To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 8:58:42 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: re: AYA 2010 Yeah, I don't know, Gary. The Rockies have been a headache for east-west travel for quite a while now, I guess. I dropped in for a day and a half at Baraboo. I have stayed far away from AYA politics and policies because I have been neck deep in that kind of thing in a previous life. Of over 50,000 people who have been members of the National Knife Collector's Association, (NKCA) yours truly is the only one who was ever kicked out. I was the youngest person ever elected to their board of directors. I'm not sure if they exist anymore. One of the most controversial things that ever came up was a name change for the outfit. Go figure. But it taught me a lot about human behavior. It is strange to me that people will spend money like water when it is not their money. It is strange to me that even businesses don't put themselves inside the head of their target audience to see if a purchase from them would make sense at all. Garmin, for example, has gone out it's way to make it clear to me that I am an idiot if I ever buy anything from them, and they will treat me like one. I belong to the AYA out of a sense of obligation to them, not because of any service they provide for me. I plan to remain a silent supporter. I get along well with, and enjoy the company of most of the people I have met there. Some of the one's I cannot hold a conversation with are still a source of amusement. And I love the airplane. Bob Hodo GADsden, AL cheetaaahhh --- On Wed, 7/21/10, Gary Vogt wrote: From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: re: AYA 2010 To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 10:22 PM So, it will be 8 years since an AYA convention was in the west. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Hodo To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 1:57:10 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: re: AYA 2010 Is this because - nobody is willing to put a meeting together in the West - nobody is willing to put a meeting together at all, or - something else? I think Dayton was a Central location, and SSI will be an Eastern location so, if my understanding is correct, the 2012 convention would again be a Central location, and the convention won't go "West" again until 2013. Bob Hodo http: --> http://forums.matrowww.matronics.com/contribution> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:53 AM PST US From: 923te <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts Sounds like it would be cheaper to upgrade to the same bulb that Cirrus uses : Reply |jknoll Posted: 27 Jun 2010 18:35 | In reply to cloprest rated by 0 users Rj Siegel: Hmmmmm As always, there is rarely any such thing as over communicating f or clarification. Thanks for reminding me! X2's have 2-3 times more light than stock. X3's have 65% more light than X2's 1. Early, early, early round lights .... No upgrade path if they are in the air cleaner box. 2. Slightly later round lights... We made special X3 system which replaces e verything. New HID BoomBeam, igniter, reflector, focused lens, all appropria te wires, ballast ass'y. mount hardware, manual and snickers bar. $949.00 ( $799.00 in groups of 10). 3. Rectangular lights... X2 with HID BoomBeam, ignitor, focused lens, custo m designed reflector, tuneable for distance and of course, snickers bar. was $649, now special price $499 4. Rectangular lights... X3! with HID BoomBeam, ignitor, focused lens, cust om designed reflector, tuneable for distance, wires, custom ballast and of c ourse, snickers bar. $949 ($799 in groups of 10) 5. Upgrade from X2 to X3 (meaning if you bought an X2 we're giving you a spe cial price for the upgrade. $499 Hope that's clear! Cheers! Rj On Jul 24, 2010, at 11:02 PM, ArjayS@AOL.COM wrote: > Hi Guys > Since the day I returned from the AYA convention, I've been trying to figu re out how to best synchronize with the needs of the Grumman membership. For the longest time, we only offered one lighting product, with the caveat "Ta ke it or leave it". (Not a very enlightened position). > I'm changing that immediately. We're (AYA) a diverse group and our needs a nd wants differ wildly. So that's why I've been querying the group over the l ast week or so. You have educated me. This is my first formal stab at meetin g needs based on what I've learned so far. > > FOUR Products > 1. X3 System. Huge light output. Latest technology $1400 ($1199.00 during Oshkosh) > 2. BoomBeam=84=A2 STD. Pricing reduced to $699. ($599 during Oshkosh) > 3. Upgrade for old BB owners to X3 System $699 ($599 during Oshkosh) > 4. Refurbished STD BB Systems $499 ($399 during Oshkosh) 3 year 3000hr gua rantee. > > My intent is clearly to be much more responsive to the group. Let's hope t his is a really good start! > Thanks and Cheers! > > Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:27 AM PST US From: ArjayS@AOL.COM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts Won't work. Different design, different reflector and 28 volts > Sounds like it would be cheaper to upgrade to the same bulb that Cirrus > uses: > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:15 AM PST US From: "Tom Quinn" Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts Sounds like the only light that will fit a stock AA5 (without cutting holes to accommodate the light) is the original BB? From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 923te Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:50 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts Sounds like it would be cheaper to upgrade to the same bulb that Cirrus uses: Reply | jknoll Posted: 27 Jun 2010 18:35 | In reply to cloprest rated by 0 users Rj Siegel: Hmmmmm As always, there is rarely any such thing as over communicating for clarification. Thanks for reminding me! X2's have 2-3 times more light than stock. X3's have 65% more light than X2's 1. Early, early, early round lights .... No upgrade path if they are in the air cleaner box. 2. Slightly later round lights... We made special X3 system which replaces everything. New HID BoomBeam, igniter, reflector, focused lens, all appropriate wires, ballast ass'y. mount hardware, manual and snickers bar. $949.00 ($799.00 in groups of 10). 3. Rectangular lights... X2 with HID BoomBeam, ignitor, focused lens, custom designed reflector, tuneable for distance and of course, snickers bar. was $649, now special price $499 4. Rectangular lights... X3! with HID BoomBeam, ignitor, focused lens, custom designed reflector, tuneable for distance, wires, custom ballast and of course, snickers bar. $949 ($799 in groups of 10) 5. Upgrade from X2 to X3 (meaning if you bought an X2 we're giving you a special price for the upgrade. $499 Hope that's clear! Cheers! Rj On Jul 24, 2010, at 11:02 PM, ArjayS@AOL.COM wrote: Hi Guys Since the day I returned from the AYA convention, I've been trying to figure out how to best synchronize with the needs of the Grumman membership. For the longest time, we only offered one lighting product, with the caveat "Take it or leave it". (Not a very enlightened position). I'm changing that immediately. We're (AYA) a diverse group and our needs and wants differ wildly. So that's why I've been querying the group over the last week or so. You have educated me. This is my first formal stab at meeting needs based on what I've learned so far. FOUR Products 1. X3 System. Huge light output. Latest technology $1400 ($1199.00 during Oshkosh) 2. BoomBeam=84=A2 STD. Pricing reduced to $699. ($599 during Oshkosh) 3. Upgrade for old BB owners to X3 System $699 ($599 during Oshkosh) 4. Refurbished STD BB Systems $499 ($399 during Oshkosh) 3 year 3000hr guarantee. My intent is clearly to be much more responsive to the group. Let's hope this is a really good start! Thanks and Cheers! Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering ========= t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ========= ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ========= http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion ========= ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pricing: Oshkosh Discounts From: 923te <923te@att.net> The AG5B uses 28v and rectangular lenses Do you have an upgrade path? On Jul 25, 2010, at 10:04 AM, ArjayS@AOL.COM wrote: > Won't work. Different design, different reflector and 28 volts > > >> Sounds like it would be cheaper to upgrade to the same bulb that Cirrus u ses: > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:59 PM PST US From: Bob Hodo Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Main gear faring & speed. Didn't want to hi-jack Gene's question to those who have his wheel pants, s o... Over a year ago when I finally got the cheetah back in the air, my first fl ight did not have the main gear brake faring or the wheel pants installed. - The sump covers were in place IIRC. All=0A my stuff is the heavy ABS factory stuff, and I was surprised that I was=0A actually 3 1/2 knots faster on the next flight after installing them .- =0ASince I meant to test this, it was the only thing that changed betw een =0Athe two flights. We all know the design of the factory stuff =0Aleaves a lot on the table. - That is why Fletchair has their new ones, =0AGene has his, and Gary Vog t is well on the way to his, and last but not =0Aleast, LoPresti even has a version with a retractable cover for the =0Abottom beneath the tire itself .. I wonder if you have a Tiger with MT prop=0A and these wheel pants you will be able to log all your time as "complex".- Don't see why not. One=0A reason that LoPresti and Gary and Gene cannot guarantee any specific =0Aincrease to the fleet is that our aircraft are widely different from on e=0A serial number to the next in performance, and this is because there ar e=0A just too many variables. More than one person has complained =0Aabout the low speed of their plane, only for the GG to find out they =0Awere reading indicated airspeed without any conversion to TAS or even =0Areference to their GPS ground speed avera ges. Without=0A the long explanation, do understand that on the AA5-x, reducing drag =0Abelow the main wing will help much more than the very same drag =0A reduction above the wing.- So cleaning up the gear on N477BG will be a =0Apriority for me before SSI. I'd be very interested to know the speed difference with and without your m ain gear pants on any plane where it has been tested,=0A and also which pan ts were used. Bob Hodo GADsden, AL Grumman Owner and Pilot! =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:57 PM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Main gear faring & speed. Five or six years ago, a friend of mine who was anxious to go fast, moved the sumps on his 74 Traveler, installed wheel pants and all of the Cheetah/Tiger fairings. I think (Bobby, correct me if I'm wrong) he gained about 5 knots. Over the next few months, we removed the big ELT antenna from the vertical (filled the holes smooth), buried an antenna in the dorsal fin, and installed a flush rudder cap. When all was said and done, we'd gained about 10-12 knots. The reason I don't post any promised speed increases is because it's too easy for someone to say, "BULLSHIT." Besides, I'd have to change the POH and that's a real pain. I flew 28840 this last weekend. It's pretty dirty as far as antennas and junk hanging off the plane. Straight and level at 2500 feet and 2730 rpm on a digital tach, it trued at 142. 28840 is the first plane I restored from nose to tail. ________________________________ From: Bob Hodo Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 6:40:15 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Main gear faring & speed. Didn't want to hi-jack Gene's question to those who have his wheel pants, so... Over a year ago when I finally got the cheetah back in the air, my first flight did not have the main gear brake faring or the wheel pants installed. The sump covers were in place IIRC. All my stuff is the heavy ABS factory stuff, and I was surprised that I was actually 3 1/2 knots faster on the next flight after installing them. Since I meant to test this, it was the only thing that changed between the two flights. We all know the design of the factory stuff leaves a lot on the table. That is why Fletchair has their new ones, Gene has his, and Gary Vogt is well on the way to his, and last but not least, LoPresti even has a version with a retractable cover for the bottom beneath the tire itself. I wonder if you have a Tiger with MT prop and these wheel pants you will be able to log all your time as "complex". Don't see why not. One reason that LoPresti and Gary and Gene cannot guarantee any specific increase to the fleet is that our aircraft are widely different from one serial number to the next in performance, and this is because there are just too many variables. More than one person has complained about the low speed of their plane, only for the GG to find out they were reading indicated airspeed without any conversion to TAS or even reference to their GPS ground speed averages. Without the long explanation, do understand that on the AA5-x, reducing drag below the main wing will help much more than the very same drag reduction above the wing. So cleaning up the gear on N477BG will be a priority for me before SSI. I'd be very interested to know the speed difference with and without your main gear pants on any plane where it has been tested, and also which pants were used. Bob Hodo GADsden, AL Grumman Owner and Pilot! ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:38 PM PST US From: Bob Hodo Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Main gear faring & speed. But Gary, 28840 is a Tiger, no? --- On Sun, 7/25/10, Gary Vogt wrote: From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Main gear faring & speed. Five or six years ago, a friend of mine who was anxious to go fast, moved t he sumps on his 74 Traveler, installed wheel pants and all of the Cheetah/T iger fairings. -I think (Bobby, correct me if I'm wrong) he gained about 5 knots. -Over the next few months, we removed the big ELT antenna from t he vertical (filled the holes smooth), buried an antenna in the dorsal fin, and installed a flush rudder cap. -When all was said and done, we'd gain ed about 10-12 knots. - The reason I don't post any promised speed increases is because it's too ea sy for someone to say, "BULLSHIT." -Besides, I'd have to change the POH a nd that's a real pain. I flew 28840 this last weekend. -It's pretty dirty as far as antennas and junk=0A hanging off the plane. -Straight and level at 2500 feet and 2730 rpm on a digital tach, it trued at 142. -28840 is the first plane I rest ored from nose to tail. From: Bob Hodo Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 6:40:15 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Main gear faring & speed. =0ADidn't want to hi-jack Gene's question to those who have his wheel pants , so... Over a year ago when I finally got the cheetah back in the air, my first fl ight did not have the main gear brake faring or the wheel pants installed. - The sump covers were in place IIRC. All=0A my stuff is the heavy ABS factory stuff, and I was surprised that I was=0A actually 3 1/2 knots faster on the next flight after installing them .- =0ASince I meant to test this, it was the only thing that changed betw een =0Athe two flights. We all know the design of the factory stuff =0Aleaves a lot on the table. - That is why Fletchair has their new ones, =0AGene has his, and Gary Vog t is well on the way to his, and last but not =0Aleast, LoPresti even has a version with a retractable cover for the =0Abottom beneath the tire itself .. I wonder if you have a Tiger with MT prop=0A and these wheel pants you will be able to log all your time as "complex".- Don't see why not. One=0A reason that LoPresti and Gary and Gene cannot guarantee any specific =0Aincrease to the fleet is that our aircraft are widely different from on e=0A serial number to the next in performance, and this is because there ar e=0A just too many variables. More than one person has complained =0Aabout the low speed of their plane, only for the GG to find out they =0Awere reading indicated airspeed without any conversion to TAS or even =0Areference to their GPS ground speed avera ges. Without=0A the long explanation, do understand that on the AA5-x, reducing drag =0Abelow the main wing will help much more than the very same drag =0A reduction above the wing.- So cleaning up the gear on N477BG will be a =0Apriority for me before SSI. I'd be very interested to know the speed difference with and without your m ain gear pants on any plane where it has been tested,=0A and also which pan ts were used. Bob Hodo GADsden, AL Grumman Owner and Pilot! =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.