Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:46 PM - The AG5B (Gary Vogt)
2. 04:08 PM - 1976 Tiger for sale (Gary Vogt)
3. 04:33 PM - Re: The AG5B (Ronald Millman CPA)
4. 04:43 PM - IO-360 B1E (180 hp) (Gary Vogt)
5. 04:56 PM - Re: The AG5B (flyv35b)
6. 05:49 PM - Re: The AG5B (Gary Vogt)
7. 05:50 PM - Re: The AG5B (Gary Vogt)
8. 06:23 PM - Re: The AG5B (Gary Vogt)
9. 08:44 PM - Re: The AG5B (Ronald Millman CPA)
10. 08:47 PM - Re: The AG5B (Ronald Millman CPA)
Message 1
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Most of you know I'm not a big fan of the AG5B. All of the clean and simple
ideas that went into the AA5B have been bastardized. Yea, I'm working on an AG.
(1) The seat bottom of the rear seat. WAY TOO MUCH PADDING. You can't even put
the seat bottom in it's cargo position without standing on it. The corners have
been padded when it sits on the braces on the spar. Brilliant.
(2) The carb air inlet. ON THE BOTTOM OF THE COWLING? Even some sort of NACA
inlet, like the Cheetah inlet, on the left side would have been better than just
a hole. That's being fixed on the Project X Plane.
(3) The brake line inside the cabin. Why was a joggle put in the brake line
under the spar? Oh, I see, so the metal kick panels can chafe on it. Gotcha.
It was fine the way it was.
(4) Wiring from the panel to the back. This is a tough one. On the AA5x, the
primary path is along the console, up over the spar, under the rear console, and
to the back. On the AG5B, wires run along the bottom on both sides. The
biggest problem I have with this is brake fluid, fuel, and water also runs along
the bottom. I've seen a lot of oil soaked/gummy wires on even new AGs.
I've done both on my planes, looking for an optimal solution. Not so easy. In
the latest iteration, the one I've used for the last 4 years, I use my
fiberglass armrests (see pics) for the wiring. The way the side panels are
installed, it makes maintenance (i.e., lazy avionics guys) easy to get to the
wiring. When I installed an S-Tec 30, I used the pilots side armrest. I have
Adel clamps that hold things all neat and orderly.
(5) Fuses on the battery box. Five fuses. Really? Why? Oh, yea, for ground
operation so you can run the battery down before you go flying. Gotcha. The
reality is, this 'convenience' is something that does more harm than good.
Instead of getting the engine running and warming up the oil, you sit there and
run the battery down. If you can't input the flight plan in the two to five
minutes it takes to bring the engine up to operating temperature, you are
unprepared to go flying. Go home. Start over.
(6) The decision to remove the airframe as ground for the electrical system. I
did a firewall forward restoration on an AG. After installing the engine mount,
battery and starter relays, battery box, and new battery, I hit the Master
Switch to check things out. Nothing. WTF? I checked a lot of things and found
there was no ground on the master switch. Grounding to the airframe did
nothing. Whatever. I continued hooking things up, relocation wires, and
suddenly, I had power. One of the wires I ran to ground (on the engine mount)
made every thing come alive. I created a single point ground on the firewall
and ran all of the grounds to that point.
(7) Mounting the oil pressure transducer on the left side of the firewall and
running the oil pressure hose across the back of the oil filter to get there.
HELLO. McFly. Why not mount the transducer on the right side of the firewall
and use a 10 inch hose directly to it? It makes maintenance easier also.
(8) The shunt on the firewall. WHY? How about cleaning up the firewall and
mount this inside?
(9) The throttle quadrant. Taking a very simple throttle quadrant and making
this about as complicated and maintenance intensive as was possible doesn't make
sense. Oh, except that now you can pretend you're flying a bigger plane.
(10) Fiberglass console so you can have heat to the back seat. Let's see, on
the average no one rides in the back seat. BUT, for the 1% who do, and do so in
the winter, let's add 10 lbs to the airframe empty weight and, while we're at
it, make installation and removal difficult too.
(11) Bondo on the sides of the fuselage to hide the bond lines. Yea. Right.
Let's add 100 lbs to the empty weight so that no one can see that it's bonded
together.
(12) The Cannon plug on the firewall. OK. There is some potential advantage.
Two separate wiring harnesses; one inside, one outside. But, any changes,
e.g., adding an engine analyzer, means drilling a new hole. To add a wire to
the Cannon plug requires installing those connector pins to both sides. Look at
the firewall on a 70's era AA5x. That's how many wires are needed through the
firewall.
(13) Using the spar to run the wires. OK, it's there, it's simple. Put a
connector at each end of the wing. Presto. BUT, how about putting the hole on
the front of the spar instead of the rear? Putting it on the front eliminates
running the wires under the spar. I took a picture of wires trapped under the
closeout under the spar but I didn't bring the camera home to down load it.
Here is another suggestion, those wires that go into the spar, run them down
the console like the real Tiger and into the front of the spar. That totally
eliminates the wires running from the right side wall under the spar to the hole
in the back of the spar.
Ockham's Razor.
Message 2
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| Subject: | 1976 Tiger for sale |
One of my customers has a 1976 Tiger for sale.
3000 TTAF
310 since factory overhauled engine
1200 on Prop
Nice paint
Nice leather interior
Visors
Garmin 530
KX-155
EDO air audio panel
KT-76A transponder
$70,000
Message 3
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Well Gary, You are the first to know. We have a 1977 AA5B with 1,800
TOTAL hours, and a ZERO time
engine just done by Pacific Continental Engines here at Whiteman
airport, in L.A.
And it will be for sale soon. Original paint, original interior.
Always hangared.
Ron Millman, CPA 818-241-3286, Glendale, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt<mailto:teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
To: Teamgrumman List<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:34 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: The AG5B
Most of you know I'm not a big fan of the AG5B. All of the clean and
simple ideas that went into the AA5B have been bastardized. Yea, I'm
working on an AG.
(1) The seat bottom of the rear seat. WAY TOO MUCH PADDING. You
can't even put the seat bottom in it's cargo position without standing
on it. The corners have been padded when it sits on the braces on the
spar. Brilliant.
(2) The carb air inlet. ON THE BOTTOM OF THE COWLING? Even some sort
of NACA inlet, like the Cheetah inlet, on the left side would have been
better than just a hole. That's being fixed on the Project X Plane.
(3) The brake line inside the cabin. Why was a joggle put in the
brake line under the spar? Oh, I see, so the metal kick panels can
chafe on it. Gotcha. It was fine the way it was.
(4) Wiring from the panel to the back. This is a tough one. On the
AA5x, the primary path is along the console, up over the spar, under the
rear console, and to the back. On the AG5B, wires run along the bottom
on both sides. The biggest problem I have with this is brake fluid,
fuel, and water also runs along the bottom. I've seen a lot of oil
soaked/gummy wires on even new AGs.
I've done both on my planes, looking for an optimal solution. Not so
easy. In the latest iteration, the one I've used for the last 4 years,
I use my fiberglass armrests (see pics) for the wiring. The way the
side panels are installed, it makes maintenance (i.e., lazy avionics
guys) easy to get to the wiring. When I installed an S-Tec 30, I used
the pilots side armrest. I have Adel clamps that hold things all neat
and orderly.
(5) Fuses on the battery box. Five fuses. Really? Why? Oh, yea,
for ground operation so you can run the battery down before you go
flying. Gotcha. The reality is, this 'convenience' is something that
does more harm than good. Instead of getting the engine running and
warming up the oil, you sit there and run the battery down. If you
can't input the flight plan in the two to five minutes it takes to bring
the engine up to operating temperature, you are unprepared to go flying.
Go home. Start over.
(6) The decision to remove the airframe as ground for the electrical
system. I did a firewall forward restoration on an AG. After
installing the engine mount, battery and starter relays, battery box,
and new battery, I hit the Master Switch to check things out. Nothing.
WTF? I checked a lot of things and found there was no ground on the
master switch. Grounding to the airframe did nothing. Whatever. I
continued hooking things up, relocation wires, and suddenly, I had
power. One of the wires I ran to ground (on the engine mount) made
every thing come alive. I created a single point ground on the firewall
and ran all of the grounds to that point.
(7) Mounting the oil pressure transducer on the left side of the
firewall and running the oil pressure hose across the back of the oil
filter to get there. HELLO. McFly. Why not mount the transducer on
the right side of the firewall and use a 10 inch hose directly to it?
It makes maintenance easier also.
(8) The shunt on the firewall. WHY? How about cleaning up the
firewall and mount this inside?
(9) The throttle quadrant. Taking a very simple throttle quadrant and
making this about as complicated and maintenance intensive as was
possible doesn't make sense. Oh, except that now you can pretend you're
flying a bigger plane.
(10) Fiberglass console so you can have heat to the back seat. Let's
see, on the average no one rides in the back seat. BUT, for the 1% who
do, and do so in the winter, let's add 10 lbs to the airframe empty
weight and, while we're at it, make installation and removal difficult
too.
(11) Bondo on the sides of the fuselage to hide the bond lines. Yea.
Right. Let's add 100 lbs to the empty weight so that no one can see
that it's bonded together.
(12) The Cannon plug on the firewall. OK. There is some potential
advantage. Two separate wiring harnesses; one inside, one outside.
But, any changes, e.g., adding an engine analyzer, means drilling a new
hole. To add a wire to the Cannon plug requires installing those
connector pins to both sides. Look at the firewall on a 70's era AA5x.
That's how many wires are needed through the firewall.
(13) Using the spar to run the wires. OK, it's there, it's simple.
Put a connector at each end of the wing. Presto. BUT, how about
putting the hole on the front of the spar instead of the rear? Putting
it on the front eliminates running the wires under the spar. I took a
picture of wires trapped under the closeout under the spar but I didn't
bring the camera home to down load it. Here is another suggestion,
those wires that go into the spar, run them down the console like the
real Tiger and into the front of the spar. That totally eliminates the
wires running from the right side wall under the spar to the hole in the
back of the spar.
Ockham's Razor.
Message 4
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| Subject: | IO-360 B1E (180 hp) |
Option 1: IO 306 B1E with a fixed pitch prop. Simple. Easy. The STC would
be very straight forward
Option 2: IO 360 B1E with a constant speed prop. More work for the STC. It's
heavier. But, you'd get a number of benefits.
Option 3: IO 360 B1E with 10:1 compression ratio, constant speed prop, limited
by manifold pressure to 180 hp. Better fuel specifics. 180 hp to about 5,000
feet. Getting this STC will be a long process but has a lot more potential.
OK, so, which option do you prefer? Would you be willing to put a deposit down?
Message 5
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(2) The carb air inlet. ON THE BOTTOM OF THE COWLING? Even some sort
of NACA inlet, like the Cheetah inlet, on the left side would have been
better than just a hole. That's being fixed on the Project X Plane.
I thought the AG5B had an NACA inlet duct on the LH side with the air
cleaner attached to the cowling??
Cliff
Message 6
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Hey Ron, do you know Anne Marie? She's also hangared at Whiteman. She's a
doll. You'd like her.
________________________________
From: Ronald Millman CPA <ronmillmancpa@msn.com>
Sent: Sun, September 26, 2010 4:13:38 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: The AG5B
Well Gary, You are the first to know. We have a 1977 AA5B with 1,800 TOTAL
hours, and a ZERO time
engine just done by Pacific Continental Engines here at Whiteman airport, in
L.A.
And it will be for sale soon. Original paint, original interior. Always
hangared.
Ron Millman, CPA 818-241-3286, Glendale, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt
>To: Teamgrumman List
>Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:34 PM
>Subject: TeamGrumman-List: The AG5B
>
>
>Most of you know I'm not a big fan of the AG5B. All of the clean and simple
>ideas that went into the AA5B have been bastardized. Yea, I'm working on an
>AG.
>
>
>(1) The seat bottom of the rear seat. WAY TOO MUCH PADDING. You can't even
>put the seat bottom in it's cargo position without standing on it. The
>corners have been padded when it sits on the braces on the spar. Brilliant.
>
>
>(2) The carb air inlet. ON THE BOTTOM OF THE COWLING? Even some sort of
>NACA inlet, like the Cheetah inlet, on the left side would have been better
>than just a hole. That's being fixed on the Project X Plane.
>
>
>(3) The brake line inside the cabin. Why was a joggle put in the brake line
>under the spar? Oh, I see, so the metal kick panels can chafe on it.
> Gotcha. It was fine the way it was.
>
>
>(4) Wiring from the panel to the back. This is a tough one. On the AA5x,
>the primary path is along the console, up over the spar, under the rear
>console, and to the back. On the AG5B, wires run along the bottom on both
>sides. The biggest problem I have with this is brake fluid, fuel, and water
>also runs along the bottom. I've seen a lot of oil soaked/gummy wires on
>even new AGs.
>
>
>I've done both on my planes, looking for an optimal solution. Not so easy.
> In the latest iteration, the one I've used for the last 4 years, I use my
>fiberglass armrests (see pics) for the wiring. The way the side panels are
>installed, it makes maintenance (i.e., lazy avionics guys) easy to get to the
>wiring. When I installed an S-Tec 30, I used the pilots side armrest. I
>have Adel clamps that hold things all neat and orderly.
>
>
>(5) Fuses on the battery box. Five fuses. Really? Why? Oh, yea, for
>ground operation so you can run the battery down before you go flying.
> Gotcha. The reality is, this 'convenience' is something that does more harm
>than good. Instead of getting the engine running and warming up the oil, you
>sit there and run the battery down. If you can't input the flight plan in
>the two to five minutes it takes to bring the engine up to operating
>temperature, you are unprepared to go flying. Go home. Start over.
>
>
>(6) The decision to remove the airframe as ground for the electrical system.
> I did a firewall forward restoration on an AG. After installing the engine
>mount, battery and starter relays, battery box, and new battery, I hit the
>Master Switch to check things out. Nothing. WTF? I checked a lot of things
>and found there was no ground on the master switch. Grounding to the
>airframe did nothing. Whatever. I continued hooking things up, relocation
>wires, and suddenly, I had power. One of the wires I ran to ground (on the
>engine mount) made every thing come alive. I created a single point ground
>on the firewall and ran all of the grounds to that point.
>
>
>(7) Mounting the oil pressure transducer on the left side of the firewall and
>running the oil pressure hose across the back of the oil filter to get there.
> HELLO. McFly. Why not mount the transducer on the right side of the
>firewall and use a 10 inch hose directly to it? It makes maintenance easier
>also.
>
>
>(8) The shunt on the firewall. WHY? How about cleaning up the firewall and
>mount this inside?
>
>
>(9) The throttle quadrant. Taking a very simple throttle quadrant and making
>this about as complicated and maintenance intensive as was possible doesn't
>make sense. Oh, except that now you can pretend you're flying a bigger
>plane.
>
>
>(10) Fiberglass console so you can have heat to the back seat. Let's see,
on
>the average no one rides in the back seat. BUT, for the 1% who do, and do
so
>in the winter, let's add 10 lbs to the airframe empty weight and, while we're
>at it, make installation and removal difficult too.
>
>
>(11) Bondo on the sides of the fuselage to hide the bond lines. Yea. Right.
> Let's add 100 lbs to the empty weight so that no one can see that it's
>bonded together.
>
>
>(12) The Cannon plug on the firewall. OK. There is some potential
>advantage. Two separate wiring harnesses; one inside, one outside. But, any
>changes, e.g., adding an engine analyzer, means drilling a new hole. To add
>a wire to the Cannon plug requires installing those connector pins to both
>sides. Look at the firewall on a 70's era AA5x. That's how many wires are
>needed through the firewall.
>
>
>(13) Using the spar to run the wires. OK, it's there, it's simple. Put a
>connector at each end of the wing. Presto. BUT, how about putting the hole
>on the front of the spar instead of the rear? Putting it on the front
>eliminates running the wires under the spar. I took a picture of wires
>trapped under the closeout under the spar but I didn't bring the camera home
>to down load it. Here is another suggestion, those wires that go into the
>spar, run them down the console like the real Tiger and into the front of the
>spar. That totally eliminates the wires running from the right side wall
>under the spar to the hole in the back of the spar.
>
>
>Ockham's Razor.
>
>
Message 7
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how much? any pics?
________________________________
From: Ronald Millman CPA <ronmillmancpa@msn.com>
Sent: Sun, September 26, 2010 4:13:38 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: The AG5B
Well Gary, You are the first to know. We have a 1977 AA5B with 1,800 TOTAL
hours, and a ZERO time
engine just done by Pacific Continental Engines here at Whiteman airport, in
L.A.
And it will be for sale soon. Original paint, original interior. Always
hangared.
Ron Millman, CPA 818-241-3286, Glendale, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt
>To: Teamgrumman List
>Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:34 PM
>Subject: TeamGrumman-List: The AG5B
>
>
>Most of you know I'm not a big fan of the AG5B. All of the clean and simple
>ideas that went into the AA5B have been bastardized. Yea, I'm working on an
>AG.
>
>
>(1) The seat bottom of the rear seat. WAY TOO MUCH PADDING. You can't even
>put the seat bottom in it's cargo position without standing on it. The
>corners have been padded when it sits on the braces on the spar. Brilliant.
>
>
>(2) The carb air inlet. ON THE BOTTOM OF THE COWLING? Even some sort of
>NACA inlet, like the Cheetah inlet, on the left side would have been better
>than just a hole. That's being fixed on the Project X Plane.
>
>
>(3) The brake line inside the cabin. Why was a joggle put in the brake line
>under the spar? Oh, I see, so the metal kick panels can chafe on it.
> Gotcha. It was fine the way it was.
>
>
>(4) Wiring from the panel to the back. This is a tough one. On the AA5x,
>the primary path is along the console, up over the spar, under the rear
>console, and to the back. On the AG5B, wires run along the bottom on both
>sides. The biggest problem I have with this is brake fluid, fuel, and water
>also runs along the bottom. I've seen a lot of oil soaked/gummy wires on
>even new AGs.
>
>
>I've done both on my planes, looking for an optimal solution. Not so easy.
> In the latest iteration, the one I've used for the last 4 years, I use my
>fiberglass armrests (see pics) for the wiring. The way the side panels are
>installed, it makes maintenance (i.e., lazy avionics guys) easy to get to the
>wiring. When I installed an S-Tec 30, I used the pilots side armrest. I
>have Adel clamps that hold things all neat and orderly.
>
>
>(5) Fuses on the battery box. Five fuses. Really? Why? Oh, yea, for
>ground operation so you can run the battery down before you go flying.
> Gotcha. The reality is, this 'convenience' is something that does more harm
>than good. Instead of getting the engine running and warming up the oil, you
>sit there and run the battery down. If you can't input the flight plan in
>the two to five minutes it takes to bring the engine up to operating
>temperature, you are unprepared to go flying. Go home. Start over.
>
>
>(6) The decision to remove the airframe as ground for the electrical system.
> I did a firewall forward restoration on an AG. After installing the engine
>mount, battery and starter relays, battery box, and new battery, I hit the
>Master Switch to check things out. Nothing. WTF? I checked a lot of things
>and found there was no ground on the master switch. Grounding to the
>airframe did nothing. Whatever. I continued hooking things up, relocation
>wires, and suddenly, I had power. One of the wires I ran to ground (on the
>engine mount) made every thing come alive. I created a single point ground
>on the firewall and ran all of the grounds to that point.
>
>
>(7) Mounting the oil pressure transducer on the left side of the firewall and
>running the oil pressure hose across the back of the oil filter to get there.
> HELLO. McFly. Why not mount the transducer on the right side of the
>firewall and use a 10 inch hose directly to it? It makes maintenance easier
>also.
>
>
>(8) The shunt on the firewall. WHY? How about cleaning up the firewall and
>mount this inside?
>
>
>(9) The throttle quadrant. Taking a very simple throttle quadrant and making
>this about as complicated and maintenance intensive as was possible doesn't
>make sense. Oh, except that now you can pretend you're flying a bigger
>plane.
>
>
>(10) Fiberglass console so you can have heat to the back seat. Let's see,
on
>the average no one rides in the back seat. BUT, for the 1% who do, and do
so
>in the winter, let's add 10 lbs to the airframe empty weight and, while we're
>at it, make installation and removal difficult too.
>
>
>(11) Bondo on the sides of the fuselage to hide the bond lines. Yea. Right.
> Let's add 100 lbs to the empty weight so that no one can see that it's
>bonded together.
>
>
>(12) The Cannon plug on the firewall. OK. There is some potential
>advantage. Two separate wiring harnesses; one inside, one outside. But, any
>changes, e.g., adding an engine analyzer, means drilling a new hole. To add
>a wire to the Cannon plug requires installing those connector pins to both
>sides. Look at the firewall on a 70's era AA5x. That's how many wires are
>needed through the firewall.
>
>
>(13) Using the spar to run the wires. OK, it's there, it's simple. Put a
>connector at each end of the wing. Presto. BUT, how about putting the hole
>on the front of the spar instead of the rear? Putting it on the front
>eliminates running the wires under the spar. I took a picture of wires
>trapped under the closeout under the spar but I didn't bring the camera home
>to down load it. Here is another suggestion, those wires that go into the
>spar, run them down the console like the real Tiger and into the front of the
>spar. That totally eliminates the wires running from the right side wall
>under the spar to the hole in the back of the spar.
>
>
>Ockham's Razor.
>
>
Message 8
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I thought I had a pic of the hole. Guess not. I suggest you find an AG5B and
take a look.
________________________________
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
Sent: Sun, September 26, 2010 4:29:56 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: The AG5B
(2) The carb air inlet. ON THE BOTTOM OF THE COWLING? Even some sort of NACA
inlet, like the Cheetah inlet, on the left side would have been better than
just a hole. That's being fixed on the Project X Plane.
I thought the AG5B had an NACA inlet duct on the LH side with the air cleaner
attached to the cowling??
Cliff
Message 9
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Yes, I have met Anne Marie. I really do not spend much time @ WHP, but
do
go to Assoc. Meetings. Ron.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt<mailto:teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
To:
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: The AG5B
Hey Ron, do you know Anne Marie? She's also hangared at Whiteman.
She's a doll. You'd like her.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Ronald Millman CPA
<ronmillmancpa@msn.com<mailto:ronmillmancpa@msn.com>>
To:
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sun, September 26, 2010 4:13:38 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: The AG5B
Well Gary, You are the first to know. We have a 1977 AA5B with
1,800 TOTAL hours, and a ZERO time
engine just done by Pacific Continental Engines here at Whiteman
airport, in L.A.
And it will be for sale soon. Original paint, original interior.
Always hangared.
Ron Millman, CPA 818-241-3286, Glendale, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt<mailto:teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
To: Teamgrumman List<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:34 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: The AG5B
Most of you know I'm not a big fan of the AG5B. All of the clean
and simple ideas that went into the AA5B have been bastardized. Yea,
I'm working on an AG.
(1) The seat bottom of the rear seat. WAY TOO MUCH PADDING. You
can't even put the seat bottom in it's cargo position without standing
on it. The corners have been padded when it sits on the braces on the
spar. Brilliant.
(2) The carb air inlet. ON THE BOTTOM OF THE COWLING? Even some
sort of NACA inlet, like the Cheetah inlet, on the left side would have
been better than just a hole. That's being fixed on the Project X
Plane.
(3) The brake line inside the cabin. Why was a joggle put in the
brake line under the spar? Oh, I see, so the metal kick panels can
chafe on it. Gotcha. It was fine the way it was.
(4) Wiring from the panel to the back. This is a tough one. On the
AA5x, the primary path is along the console, up over the spar, under the
rear console, and to the back. On the AG5B, wires run along the bottom
on both sides. The biggest problem I have with this is brake fluid,
fuel, and water also runs along the bottom. I've seen a lot of oil
soaked/gummy wires on even new AGs.
I've done both on my planes, looking for an optimal solution. Not
so easy. In the latest iteration, the one I've used for the last 4
years, I use my fiberglass armrests (see pics) for the wiring. The way
the side panels are installed, it makes maintenance (i.e., lazy avionics
guys) easy to get to the wiring. When I installed an S-Tec 30, I used
the pilots side armrest. I have Adel clamps that hold things all neat
and orderly.
(5) Fuses on the battery box. Five fuses. Really? Why? Oh, yea,
for ground operation so you can run the battery down before you go
flying. Gotcha. The reality is, this 'convenience' is something that
does more harm than good. Instead of getting the engine running and
warming up the oil, you sit there and run the battery down. If you
can't input the flight plan in the two to five minutes it takes to bring
the engine up to operating temperature, you are unprepared to go flying.
Go home. Start over.
(6) The decision to remove the airframe as ground for the electrical
system. I did a firewall forward restoration on an AG. After
installing the engine mount, battery and starter relays, battery box,
and new battery, I hit the Master Switch to check things out. Nothing.
WTF? I checked a lot of things and found there was no ground on the
master switch. Grounding to the airframe did nothing. Whatever. I
continued hooking things up, relocation wires, and suddenly, I had
power. One of the wires I ran to ground (on the engine mount) made
every thing come alive. I created a single point ground on the firewall
and ran all of the grounds to that point.
(7) Mounting the oil pressure transducer on the left side of the
firewall and running the oil pressure hose across the back of the oil
filter to get there. HELLO. McFly. Why not mount the transducer on
the right side of the firewall and use a 10 inch hose directly to it?
It makes maintenance easier also.
(8) The shunt on the firewall. WHY? How about cleaning up the
firewall and mount this inside?
(9) The throttle quadrant. Taking a very simple throttle quadrant
and making this about as complicated and maintenance intensive as was
possible doesn't make sense. Oh, except that now you can pretend you're
flying a bigger plane.
(10) Fiberglass console so you can have heat to the back seat.
Let's see, on the average no one rides in the back seat. BUT, for the
1% who do, and do so in the winter, let's add 10 lbs to the airframe
empty weight and, while we're at it, make installation and removal
difficult too.
(11) Bondo on the sides of the fuselage to hide the bond lines.
Yea. Right. Let's add 100 lbs to the empty weight so that no one can
see that it's bonded together.
(12) The Cannon plug on the firewall. OK. There is some potential
advantage. Two separate wiring harnesses; one inside, one outside.
But, any changes, e.g., adding an engine analyzer, means drilling a new
hole. To add a wire to the Cannon plug requires installing those
connector pins to both sides. Look at the firewall on a 70's era AA5x.
That's how many wires are needed through the firewall.
(13) Using the spar to run the wires. OK, it's there, it's simple.
Put a connector at each end of the wing. Presto. BUT, how about
putting the hole on the front of the spar instead of the rear? Putting
it on the front eliminates running the wires under the spar. I took a
picture of wires trapped under the closeout under the spar but I didn't
bring the camera home to down load it. Here is another suggestion,
those wires that go into the spar, run them down the console like the
real Tiger and into the front of the spar. That totally eliminates the
wires running from the right side wall under the spar to the hole in the
back of the spar.
Ockham's Razor.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
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Probably to price it just a shade above $60 K. I have some old photos
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----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt<mailto:teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
To:
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: The AG5B
how much? any pics?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Ronald Millman CPA
<ronmillmancpa@msn.com<mailto:ronmillmancpa@msn.com>>
To:
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sun, September 26, 2010 4:13:38 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: The AG5B
Well Gary, You are the first to know. We have a 1977 AA5B with
1,800 TOTAL hours, and a ZERO time
engine just done by Pacific Continental Engines here at Whiteman
airport, in L.A.
And it will be for sale soon. Original paint, original interior.
Always hangared.
Ron Millman, CPA 818-241-3286, Glendale, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt<mailto:teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
To: Teamgrumman List<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:34 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: The AG5B
Most of you know I'm not a big fan of the AG5B. All of the clean
and simple ideas that went into the AA5B have been bastardized. Yea,
I'm working on an AG.
(1) The seat bottom of the rear seat. WAY TOO MUCH PADDING. You
can't even put the seat bottom in it's cargo position without standing
on it. The corners have been padded when it sits on the braces on the
spar. Brilliant.
(2) The carb air inlet. ON THE BOTTOM OF THE COWLING? Even some
sort of NACA inlet, like the Cheetah inlet, on the left side would have
been better than just a hole. That's being fixed on the Project X
Plane.
(3) The brake line inside the cabin. Why was a joggle put in the
brake line under the spar? Oh, I see, so the metal kick panels can
chafe on it. Gotcha. It was fine the way it was.
(4) Wiring from the panel to the back. This is a tough one. On the
AA5x, the primary path is along the console, up over the spar, under the
rear console, and to the back. On the AG5B, wires run along the bottom
on both sides. The biggest problem I have with this is brake fluid,
fuel, and water also runs along the bottom. I've seen a lot of oil
soaked/gummy wires on even new AGs.
I've done both on my planes, looking for an optimal solution. Not
so easy. In the latest iteration, the one I've used for the last 4
years, I use my fiberglass armrests (see pics) for the wiring. The way
the side panels are installed, it makes maintenance (i.e., lazy avionics
guys) easy to get to the wiring. When I installed an S-Tec 30, I used
the pilots side armrest. I have Adel clamps that hold things all neat
and orderly.
(5) Fuses on the battery box. Five fuses. Really? Why? Oh, yea,
for ground operation so you can run the battery down before you go
flying. Gotcha. The reality is, this 'convenience' is something that
does more harm than good. Instead of getting the engine running and
warming up the oil, you sit there and run the battery down. If you
can't input the flight plan in the two to five minutes it takes to bring
the engine up to operating temperature, you are unprepared to go flying.
Go home. Start over.
(6) The decision to remove the airframe as ground for the electrical
system. I did a firewall forward restoration on an AG. After
installing the engine mount, battery and starter relays, battery box,
and new battery, I hit the Master Switch to check things out. Nothing.
WTF? I checked a lot of things and found there was no ground on the
master switch. Grounding to the airframe did nothing. Whatever. I
continued hooking things up, relocation wires, and suddenly, I had
power. One of the wires I ran to ground (on the engine mount) made
every thing come alive. I created a single point ground on the firewall
and ran all of the grounds to that point.
(7) Mounting the oil pressure transducer on the left side of the
firewall and running the oil pressure hose across the back of the oil
filter to get there. HELLO. McFly. Why not mount the transducer on
the right side of the firewall and use a 10 inch hose directly to it?
It makes maintenance easier also.
(8) The shunt on the firewall. WHY? How about cleaning up the
firewall and mount this inside?
(9) The throttle quadrant. Taking a very simple throttle quadrant
and making this about as complicated and maintenance intensive as was
possible doesn't make sense. Oh, except that now you can pretend you're
flying a bigger plane.
(10) Fiberglass console so you can have heat to the back seat.
Let's see, on the average no one rides in the back seat. BUT, for the
1% who do, and do so in the winter, let's add 10 lbs to the airframe
empty weight and, while we're at it, make installation and removal
difficult too.
(11) Bondo on the sides of the fuselage to hide the bond lines.
Yea. Right. Let's add 100 lbs to the empty weight so that no one can
see that it's bonded together.
(12) The Cannon plug on the firewall. OK. There is some potential
advantage. Two separate wiring harnesses; one inside, one outside.
But, any changes, e.g., adding an engine analyzer, means drilling a new
hole. To add a wire to the Cannon plug requires installing those
connector pins to both sides. Look at the firewall on a 70's era AA5x.
That's how many wires are needed through the firewall.
(13) Using the spar to run the wires. OK, it's there, it's simple.
Put a connector at each end of the wing. Presto. BUT, how about
putting the hole on the front of the spar instead of the rear? Putting
it on the front eliminates running the wires under the spar. I took a
picture of wires trapped under the closeout under the spar but I didn't
bring the camera home to down load it. Here is another suggestion,
those wires that go into the spar, run them down the console like the
real Tiger and into the front of the spar. That totally eliminates the
wires running from the right side wall under the spar to the hole in the
back of the spar.
Ockham's Razor.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
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