Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:39 AM - Terrible Situation----Help!!! (Richard Mutzman)
2. 06:29 AM - Re: Terrible Situation----Help!!! (Dj Merrill)
3. 10:40 AM - Re: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going price. Deposit (Jim Starkey)
4. 11:53 AM - Re: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going price. Deposit (Gary Vogt)
5. 12:09 PM - Re: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going price. Deposit (Jim Starkey)
6. 12:30 PM - Power Flow Exhaust System (Gary Vogt)
7. 01:00 PM - Re: Power Flow Exhaust System (Jim Starkey)
8. 01:21 PM - Re: Power Flow Exhaust System (Airport Bum)
9. 01:26 PM - Re: Power Flow Exhaust System (Airport Bum)
10. 01:49 PM - Re: Power Flow Exhaust System (flyv35b)
11. 02:28 PM - Re: Power Flow Exhaust System (grumpyparts)
12. 02:46 PM - Re: Re: Power Flow Exhaust System (flyv35b)
13. 03:03 PM - Re: Power Flow Exhaust System (WILLIAM KELLY)
14. 04:02 PM - Re: Power Flow Exhaust System (flyv35b)
15. 04:28 PM - Re: Power Flow Exhaust System ()
16. 07:57 PM - Re: Power Flow Exhaust System (Gary Vogt)
17. 08:39 PM - Jaguar cowling with the stock muffler STC (Gary Vogt)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Terrible Situation----Help!!! |
HelloI'm sorry for this odd request because it might get to you too urgent
but it's because of the situation of things right now=2CI'm stuck in Cardif
f wales with family right now=2Cwe came down here on vacation =2Cwe were ro
bbed=2C the situation seems worse as bags=2Ccash =2Ccredit cards and cell p
hone were stolen at GUN POINT=2C It's such a crazy experience for us=2C we
need help flying back home=2C the authorities are not being 100% supportive
but the good thing is that we still have our passport but don't have enoug
h money to get our flight ticket back home=2C please i need you to loan me
some money=2C I will reimburse you right as soon as I'm back home. I promis
e
Richard Mutzman
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Terrible Situation----Help!!! |
On 10/04/2010 06:35 AM, Richard Mutzman wrote:
> I'm sorry for this odd request because it might get to you too urgent
> but it's because of the situation of things right now,I'm stuck in
> Cardiff wales
It is a scam, don't fall for it.
-Dj
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going price. Deposit |
For the record, I would buy the cowl if it were available with the
standard exhaust, but I wouldn't even consider installing a Power Flow
exhaust system to get it.
On 10/4/2010 12:29 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
> Hal,
>
> Nothing is impossible. Figure hiring a DER and involving the FAA for
> about 2 or 3 years. At bare minimum, you'll need about 4 or 5 climb
> cooling tests, 3 (if everything works right the first time) carb heat
> rise tests, and 3 climb performance tests. I would estimate somewhere
> in the $15,000 range.
>
> Gary.
> And, thanks again for all the rides at Dayton.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* halb221 <halb221@centurylink.net>
> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 4:08:05 PM
> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
> price. Deposit
>
> Gary, Hello from Alabama
> I am very interested in your your new deal, I do have one question,
> how hard would it be to get approval to use your cowl with the
> standard aa5b exhaust system?
> Hal B (Beauchesne) (Your part time ride at Dayton) cell:
> 334-301-9641
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Gary Vogt <mailto:teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 03, 2010 2:47 PM
> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
> price. Deposit
>
> Scott,
>
> I'll let you know when I have 10 or more orders. As for the
> payment schedule, I'll need $3250 deposit and the rest payable
> upon completion of the cowling. It's a killer deal. I want to
> keep Composite Dave from getting a real job and not being
> available to work on my other projects.
>
> Gary
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Scott Trejo <md11strejo@YAHOO.COM
> <mailto:md11strejo@YAHOO.COM>>
> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 5:18:41 AM
> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
> price,
>
> Gary, Whats the time frame on which you need full payment. I
> would really like in on this deal.
>
> Scott Trejo
>
> PS. Was it 20 degrees cooler with the fairing? Any speed
> gain or loss?
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>
>> If you're on facebook, you've seen the latest mod on the cowling.
>> It worked and it didn't. I'll post pics tomorrow.
>>
>>
>>
>> I've worked out a deal with Composite Dave so we can get some of
>> these out on the market. If we can get orders for 10 to 15
>> cowlings, I'll sell them for $6250. You install and paint. That
>> includes $500 worth of new baffles. You pay the shipping. So,
>> for roughly twice the price of a nose bowl, you get a whole new
>> cowling. Let me know.
>>
>> Projects that are currently in process.
>>
>> 1. PMA for the instrument panel overlays.
>> 2. PMA for the fiberglass eyebrow.
>> 3. Wheel pants.
>> 4. Fiberglass horizontal root fairings. Just fine tuning the
>> tooling. It's ready to go.
>> 5. A cup holder to replace the ash tray. Just fine tuning the
>> tooling.
>> 6. An STC to replace the nose gear boot with a fairing that stays
>> on the cowling (or comes off separately.) If I hadn't tried the
>> cowling with and without the fairing, I'd have never guessed it
>> was worth 20 degrees in CHT cooling.
>> 7. A real AA5x Tail Dragger. By real, I mean actually moving the
>> location of the main gear and not just using splayed gear legs to
>> get the right geometry.
>> 8. 10:1 IO360B1E with a constant speed prop.
>> 9. Fiberglass elevator and rudder tips.
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>
>> *
>>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c <http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c>
> *
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Jim Starkey
Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
978 526-1376
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going price. Deposit |
For the record, the standard exhaust is one of the worst designs anyone ever
came up with.
________________________________
From: Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 10:14:01 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going price.
Deposit
For the record, I would buy the cowl if it were available with the standard
exhaust, but I wouldn't even consider installing a Power Flow exhaust system
to get it.
On 10/4/2010 12:29 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
Hal,
>
>
>Nothing is impossible. Figure hiring a DER and involving the FAA for
>about 2 or 3 years. At bare minimum, you'll need about 4 or 5 climb
>cooling tests, 3 (if everything works right the first time) carb heat
>rise tests, and 3 climb performance tests. I would estimate somewhere
>in the $15,000 range.
>
>
>Gary.
>And, thanks again for all the rides at Dayton.
>
>
________________________________
From: halb221 <halb221@centurylink.net>
>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 4:08:05 PM
>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>price. Deposit
>
>
>Gary, Hello from Alabama
>
>I am very interested in your your new deal, I do have one
>question, how hard would it be to get approval to use your cowl
>with the standard aa5b exhaust system?
>
>
>Hal B (Beauchesne) (Your part time ride at Dayton) cell:
>334-301-9641
>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Gary Vogt
>>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 2:47 PM
>>Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>price. Deposit
>>
>>
>>Scott,
>>
>>
>>I'll let you know when I have 10 or more orders. As for the
>>payment schedule, I'll need $3250 deposit and the rest payable
>>upon completion of the cowling. It's a killer deal. I want
>>to keep Composite Dave from getting a real job and not being
>>available to work on my other projects.
>>
>>
>>Gary
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
From: Scott Trejo <md11strejo@YAHOO.COM>
>>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 5:18:41 AM
>>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the
>>going price,
>>
>>Gary, Whats the time frame on which you need full payment.
>> I would really like in on this deal.
>>
>>
>>
>>Scott Trejo
>>
>>
>>PS. Was it 20 degrees cooler with the fairing? Any
>>speed gain or loss?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Oct 2, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>
>>If you're on facebook, you've seen the latest
>>mod on the cowling. It worked and it
>>didn't. I'll post pics tomorrow.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I've worked out a deal with Composite Dave
so
>>>we can get some of these out on the
>>>market. If we can get orders for 10 to 15
>>>cowlings, I'll sell them for $6250. You
>>>install and paint. That includes $500 worth
>>>of new baffles. You pay the shipping. So,
>>>for roughly twice the price of a nose
>>>bowl, you get a whole new cowling. Let me
>>>know.
>>>
>>>
>>>Projects that are currently in process.
>>>
>>>
>>>1. PMA for the instrument panel overlays.
>>>2. PMA for the fiberglass eyebrow.
>>>3. Wheel pants.
>>>4. Fiberglass horizontal root fairings. Just
>>>fine tuning the tooling. It's ready to go.
>>>
>>>5. A cup holder to replace the ash tray.
Just
>>>fine tuning the tooling.
>>>6. An STC to replace the nose gear boot with
a
>>>fairing that stays on the cowling (or comes
>>>off separately.) If I hadn't tried the
>>>cowling with and without the fairing, I'd
have
>>>never guessed it was worth 20 degrees in CHT
>>>cooling.
>>>7. A real AA5x Tail Dragger. By real, I mean
>>>actually moving the location of the main gear
>>>and not just using splayed gear legs to get
>>>the right geometry.
>>>8. 10:1 IO360B1E with a constant speed prop.
>>
>>>9. Fiberglass elevator and rudder tips.
>>>
>>>
>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>n
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c
>>
________________________________
>>No virus found in this message.
>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>Date: 10/03/10
>
-- Jim Starkey Founder, NimbusDB, Inc. 978 526-1376
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going price. Deposit |
That's fine. I'm just a potential customer giving you feedback.
Please feel free to ignore it if you don't like it.
On 10/4/2010 2:36 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
> For the record, the standard exhaust is one of the worst designs
> anyone ever came up with.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Mon, October 4, 2010 10:14:01 AM
> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
> price. Deposit
>
> For the record, I would buy the cowl if it were available with the
> standard exhaust, but I wouldn't even consider installing a Power Flow
> exhaust system to get it.
>
>
> On 10/4/2010 12:29 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>> Hal,
>>
>> Nothing is impossible. Figure hiring a DER and involving the FAA for
>> about 2 or 3 years. At bare minimum, you'll need about 4 or 5 climb
>> cooling tests, 3 (if everything works right the first time) carb heat
>> rise tests, and 3 climb performance tests. I would estimate
>> somewhere in the $15,000 range.
>>
>> Gary.
>> And, thanks again for all the rides at Dayton.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* halb221 <halb221@centurylink.net>
>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 4:08:05 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>> price. Deposit
>>
>> Gary, Hello from Alabama
>> I am very interested in your your new deal, I do have one question,
>> how hard would it be to get approval to use your cowl with the
>> standard aa5b exhaust system?
>> Hal B (Beauchesne) (Your part time ride at Dayton) cell:
>> 334-301-9641
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Gary Vogt <mailto:teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 03, 2010 2:47 PM
>> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>> price. Deposit
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>> I'll let you know when I have 10 or more orders. As for the
>> payment schedule, I'll need $3250 deposit and the rest payable
>> upon completion of the cowling. It's a killer deal. I want to
>> keep Composite Dave from getting a real job and not being
>> available to work on my other projects.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Scott Trejo <md11strejo@YAHOO.COM
>> <mailto:md11strejo@YAHOO.COM>>
>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 5:18:41 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the
>> going price,
>>
>> Gary, Whats the time frame on which you need full payment. I
>> would really like in on this deal.
>>
>> Scott Trejo
>>
>> PS. Was it 20 degrees cooler with the fairing? Any speed
>> gain or loss?
>>
>>
>> On Oct 2, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>
>>> If you're on facebook, you've seen the latest mod on the
>>> cowling. It worked and it didn't. I'll post pics tomorrow.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've worked out a deal with Composite Dave so we can get some of
>>> these out on the market. If we can get orders for 10 to 15
>>> cowlings, I'll sell them for $6250. You install and paint.
>>> That includes $500 worth of new baffles. You pay the shipping.
>>> So, for roughly twice the price of a nose bowl, you get a whole
>>> new cowling. Let me know.
>>>
>>> Projects that are currently in process.
>>>
>>> 1. PMA for the instrument panel overlays.
>>> 2. PMA for the fiberglass eyebrow.
>>> 3. Wheel pants.
>>> 4. Fiberglass horizontal root fairings. Just fine tuning the
>>> tooling. It's ready to go.
>>> 5. A cup holder to replace the ash tray. Just fine tuning the
>>> tooling.
>>> 6. An STC to replace the nose gear boot with a fairing that
>>> stays on the cowling (or comes off separately.) If I hadn't
>>> tried the cowling with and without the fairing, I'd have never
>>> guessed it was worth 20 degrees in CHT cooling.
>>> 7. A real AA5x Tail Dragger. By real, I mean actually moving
>>> the location of the main gear and not just using splayed gear
>>> legs to get the right geometry.
>>> 8. 10:1 IO360B1E with a constant speed prop.
>>> 9. Fiberglass elevator and rudder tips.
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c
>> *
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> Date: 10/03/10
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
> --
> Jim Starkey
> Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
> 978 526-1376
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Jim Starkey
Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
978 526-1376
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Power Flow Exhaust System |
Jim,
Just what is it that you don't like about the Power Flow? Can you be specific?
Gary
________________________________
From: Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 12:06:45 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going price.
Deposit
That's fine. I'm just a potential customer giving you feedback. Please
feel free to ignore it if you don't like it.
On 10/4/2010 2:36 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
For the record, the standard exhaust is one of the worst designs
anyone ever came up with.
>
>
________________________________
From: Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 10:14:01 AM
>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>price. Deposit
>
>For the record, I would buy the cowl if it were available with the
>standard exhaust, but I wouldn't even consider installing a Power
>Flow exhaust system to get it.
>
>
>On 10/4/2010 12:29 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>Hal,
>>
>>
>>Nothing is impossible. Figure hiring a DER and involving the
>>FAA for about 2 or 3 years. At bare minimum, you'll need
>>about 4 or 5 climb cooling tests, 3 (if everything works right
>>the first time) carb heat rise tests, and 3 climb performance
>>tests. I would estimate somewhere in the $15,000 range.
>>
>>
>>Gary.
>>And, thanks again for all the rides at Dayton.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
From: halb221 <halb221@centurylink.net>
>>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 4:08:05 PM
>>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the
>>going price. Deposit
>>
>>
>>Gary, Hello from Alabama
>>
>>I am very interested in your your new deal, I do have
>>one question, how hard would it be to get approval
>>to use your cowl with the standard aa5b exhaust system?
>>
>>
>>Hal B (Beauchesne) (Your part time ride at
>>Dayton) cell: 334-301-9641
>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Gary Vogt
>>>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 2:47 PM
>>>Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the
>>>going price. Deposit
>>>
>>>
>>>Scott,
>>>
>>>
>>>I'll let you know when I have 10 or more orders.
As
>>>for the payment schedule, I'll need $3250 deposit
and
>>>the rest payable upon completion of the cowling.
It's
>>>a killer deal. I want to keep Composite Dave from
>>>getting a real job and not being available to work
on
>>>my other projects.
>>>
>>>
>>>Gary
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________
From: Scott Trejo <md11strejo@YAHOO.COM>
>>>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 5:18:41 AM
>>>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25%
>>>off the going price,
>>>
>>>Gary, Whats the time frame on which you need full
>>>payment. I would really like in on this deal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Scott Trejo
>>>
>>>
>>>PS. Was it 20 degrees cooler with the fairing?
>>> Any speed gain or loss?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Oct 2, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Gary Vogt
>wrote:
>>>
>>>If you're on facebook, you've
>>>seen the latest mod on the cowling.
>>> It worked and it didn't. I'll post
>>>pics tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I've worked out a deal with
>>>>Composite Dave so we can get some
of
>>>>these out on the market. If we can
>>>>get orders for 10 to 15 cowlings,
I'll
>>>>sell them for $6250. You install
and
>>>>paint. That includes $500 worth
of
>>>>new baffles. You pay the
>>>>shipping. So, for roughly twice
the
>>>>price of a nose bowl, you get a whole
>>>>new cowling. Let me know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Projects that are currently in
>>>>process.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>1. PMA for the instrument panel
>>>>overlays.
>>>>2. PMA for the fiberglass eyebrow.
>>>>3. Wheel pants.
>>>>4. Fiberglass horizontal root
>>>>fairings. Just fine tuning the
>>>>tooling. It's ready to go.
>>>>5. A cup holder to replace the ash
>>>>tray. Just fine tuning the tooling.
>>>>6. An STC to replace the nose gear
>>>>boot with a fairing that stays on
the
>>>>cowling (or comes off separately.)
If
>>>>I hadn't tried the cowling with and
>>>>without the fairing, I'd have never
>>>>guessed it was worth 20 degrees in
CHT
>>>>cooling.
>>>>7. A real AA5x Tail Dragger. By
>>>>real, I mean actually moving the
>>>>location of the main gear and not
just
>>>>using splayed gear legs to get the
>>>>right geometry.
>>>>8. 10:1 IO360B1E with a constant
>>>>speed prop.
>>>>9. Fiberglass elevator and rudder
>>>>tips.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>n
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c
>>>
________________________________
>>>No virus found in this message.
>>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>Date: 10/03/10
>>
-- Jim Starkey Founder, NimbusDB, Inc. 978 526-1376
>
-- Jim Starkey Founder, NimbusDB, Inc. 978 526-1376
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power Flow Exhaust System |
I'm interested in a new cowl because mine is 30 years old, beat up,
and showing fatigue cracks here and there. I'm not interested in a
Power Flow exhaust because the performance difference is insignificant
for how I use my airplane, and, cost aside, not worth the maintenance
hassle. Before you say, "what maintenance hassle", what I have heard
over and over on the other list is that the Power Flow exhaust has a
lifetime of about 800 hours before it cracks. This is usually followed
up by an accusation that the unhappy customer didn't install it
correctly, so it's his fault and what did he expect. I don't want an
exhaust that regularly fails and I don't want to be blamed when it does.
My current exhaust system has been recently rebuilt, and if the survives
for another 25 years, I'll be too old to care on way or the other. But
my desire to trade a reliable system for an expensive unreliable one for
a performance delta that I don't care about leaves me cold.
A new cowl would solve a problem I have. A Power Flow exhaust would
introduce a problem I don't have. Enough said.
On 10/4/2010 3:24 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Just what is it that you don't like about the Power Flow? Can you be
> specific?
>
> Gary
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Mon, October 4, 2010 12:06:45 PM
> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
> price. Deposit
>
> That's fine. I'm just a potential customer giving you feedback.
> Please feel free to ignore it if you don't like it.
>
>
> On 10/4/2010 2:36 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>> For the record, the standard exhaust is one of the worst designs
>> anyone ever came up with.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Mon, October 4, 2010 10:14:01 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>> price. Deposit
>>
>> For the record, I would buy the cowl if it were available with the
>> standard exhaust, but I wouldn't even consider installing a Power
>> Flow exhaust system to get it.
>>
>>
>> On 10/4/2010 12:29 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>> Hal,
>>>
>>> Nothing is impossible. Figure hiring a DER and involving the FAA
>>> for about 2 or 3 years. At bare minimum, you'll need about 4 or 5
>>> climb cooling tests, 3 (if everything works right the first time)
>>> carb heat rise tests, and 3 climb performance tests. I would
>>> estimate somewhere in the $15,000 range.
>>>
>>> Gary.
>>> And, thanks again for all the rides at Dayton.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* halb221 <halb221@centurylink.net>
>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 4:08:05 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>> price. Deposit
>>>
>>> Gary, Hello from Alabama
>>> I am very interested in your your new deal, I do have one question,
>>> how hard would it be to get approval to use your cowl with the
>>> standard aa5b exhaust system?
>>> Hal B (Beauchesne) (Your part time ride at Dayton) cell:
>>> 334-301-9641
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Gary Vogt <mailto:teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 03, 2010 2:47 PM
>>> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>> price. Deposit
>>>
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> I'll let you know when I have 10 or more orders. As for the
>>> payment schedule, I'll need $3250 deposit and the rest payable
>>> upon completion of the cowling. It's a killer deal. I want to
>>> keep Composite Dave from getting a real job and not being
>>> available to work on my other projects.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Scott Trejo <md11strejo@YAHOO.COM
>>> <mailto:md11strejo@YAHOO.COM>>
>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>>> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 5:18:41 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the
>>> going price,
>>>
>>> Gary, Whats the time frame on which you need full payment. I
>>> would really like in on this deal.
>>>
>>> Scott Trejo
>>>
>>> PS. Was it 20 degrees cooler with the fairing? Any speed
>>> gain or loss?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 2, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you're on facebook, you've seen the latest mod on the
>>>> cowling. It worked and it didn't. I'll post pics tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've worked out a deal with Composite Dave so we can get some
>>>> of these out on the market. If we can get orders for 10 to 15
>>>> cowlings, I'll sell them for $6250. You install and paint.
>>>> That includes $500 worth of new baffles. You pay the
>>>> shipping. So, for roughly twice the price of a nose bowl, you
>>>> get a whole new cowling. Let me know.
>>>>
>>>> Projects that are currently in process.
>>>>
>>>> 1. PMA for the instrument panel overlays.
>>>> 2. PMA for the fiberglass eyebrow.
>>>> 3. Wheel pants.
>>>> 4. Fiberglass horizontal root fairings. Just fine tuning the
>>>> tooling. It's ready to go.
>>>> 5. A cup holder to replace the ash tray. Just fine tuning the
>>>> tooling.
>>>> 6. An STC to replace the nose gear boot with a fairing that
>>>> stays on the cowling (or comes off separately.) If I hadn't
>>>> tried the cowling with and without the fairing, I'd have never
>>>> guessed it was worth 20 degrees in CHT cooling.
>>>> 7. A real AA5x Tail Dragger. By real, I mean actually moving
>>>> the location of the main gear and not just using splayed gear
>>>> legs to get the right geometry.
>>>> 8. 10:1 IO360B1E with a constant speed prop.
>>>> 9. Fiberglass elevator and rudder tips.
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c
>>> *
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>>> Date: 10/03/10
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Starkey
>> Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
>> 978 526-1376
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
> --
> Jim Starkey
> Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
> 978 526-1376
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Jim Starkey
Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
978 526-1376
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power Flow Exhaust System |
Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com> wrote:
> I'm interested in a new cowl because mine is 30 years old, beat up,
>and showing fatigue cracks here and there. I'm not interested in a
>Power Flow exhaust because the performance difference is insignificant
>for how I use my airplane, and, cost aside, not worth the maintenance
>hassle. Before you say, "what maintenance hassle", what I have heard
>over and over on the other list is that the Power Flow exhaust has a
>lifetime of about 800 hours before it cracks. This is usually followed
>up by an accusation that the unhappy customer didn't install it
>correctly, so it's his fault and what did he expect. I don't want an
>exhaust that regularly fails and I don't want to be blamed when it does.
>
>My current exhaust system has been recently rebuilt, and if the survives
>for another 25 years, I'll be too old to care on way or the other. But
>my desire to trade a reliable system for an expensive unreliable one for
>a performance delta that I don't care about leaves me cold.
>
>A new cowl would solve a problem I have. A Power Flow exhaust would
>introduce a problem I don't have. Enough said.
>
>
>On 10/4/2010 3:24 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>> Jim,
>>
>> Just what is it that you don't like about the Power Flow? Can you be
>> specific?
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Mon, October 4, 2010 12:06:45 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>> price. Deposit
>>
>> That's fine. I'm just a potential customer giving you feedback.
>> Please feel free to ignore it if you don't like it.
>>
>>
>> On 10/4/2010 2:36 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>> For the record, the standard exhaust is one of the worst designs
>>> anyone ever came up with.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>> *Sent:* Mon, October 4, 2010 10:14:01 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>> price. Deposit
>>>
>>> For the record, I would buy the cowl if it were available with the
>>> standard exhaust, but I wouldn't even consider installing a Power
>>> Flow exhaust system to get it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/4/2010 12:29 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>>> Hal,
>>>>
>>>> Nothing is impossible. Figure hiring a DER and involving the FAA
>>>> for about 2 or 3 years. At bare minimum, you'll need about 4 or 5
>>>> climb cooling tests, 3 (if everything works right the first time)
>>>> carb heat rise tests, and 3 climb performance tests. I would
>>>> estimate somewhere in the $15,000 range.
>>>>
>>>> Gary.
>>>> And, thanks again for all the rides at Dayton.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* halb221 <halb221@centurylink.net>
>>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 4:08:05 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>>> price. Deposit
>>>>
>>>> Gary, Hello from Alabama
>>>> I am very interested in your your new deal, I do have one question,
>>>> how hard would it be to get approval to use your cowl with the
>>>> standard aa5b exhaust system?
>>>> Hal B (Beauchesne) (Your part time ride at Dayton) cell:
>>>> 334-301-9641
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* Gary Vogt <mailto:teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
>>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 03, 2010 2:47 PM
>>>> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>>> price. Deposit
>>>>
>>>> Scott,
>>>>
>>>> I'll let you know when I have 10 or more orders. As for the
>>>> payment schedule, I'll need $3250 deposit and the rest payable
>>>> upon completion of the cowling. It's a killer deal. I want to
>>>> keep Composite Dave from getting a real job and not being
>>>> available to work on my other projects.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Scott Trejo <md11strejo@YAHOO.COM
>>>> <mailto:md11strejo@YAHOO.COM>>
>>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 5:18:41 AM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the
>>>> going price,
>>>>
>>>> Gary, Whats the time frame on which you need full payment. I
>>>> would really like in on this deal.
>>>>
>>>> Scott Trejo
>>>>
>>>> PS. Was it 20 degrees cooler with the fairing? Any speed
>>>> gain or loss?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 2, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you're on facebook, you've seen the latest mod on the
>>>>> cowling. It worked and it didn't. I'll post pics tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've worked out a deal with Composite Dave so we can get some
>>>>> of these out on the market. If we can get orders for 10 to 15
>>>>> cowlings, I'll sell them for $6250. You install and paint.
>>>>> That includes $500 worth of new baffles. You pay the
>>>>> shipping. So, for roughly twice the price of a nose bowl, you
>>>>> get a whole new cowling. Let me know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Projects that are currently in process.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. PMA for the instrument panel overlays.
>>>>> 2. PMA for the fiberglass eyebrow.
>>>>> 3. Wheel pants.
>>>>> 4. Fiberglass horizontal root fairings. Just fine tuning the
>>>>> tooling. It's ready to go.
>>>>> 5. A cup holder to replace the ash tray. Just fine tuning the
>>>>> tooling.
>>>>> 6. An STC to replace the nose gear boot with a fairing that
>>>>> stays on the cowling (or comes off separately.) If I hadn't
>>>>> tried the cowling with and without the fairing, I'd have never
>>>>> guessed it was worth 20 degrees in CHT cooling.
>>>>> 7. A real AA5x Tail Dragger. By real, I mean actually moving
>>>>> the location of the main gear and not just using splayed gear
>>>>> legs to get the right geometry.
>>>>> 8. 10:1 IO360B1E with a constant speed prop.
>>>>> 9. Fiberglass elevator and rudder tips.
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>>>> Date: 10/03/10
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jim Starkey
>>> Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
>>> 978 526-1376
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Starkey
>> Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
>> 978 526-1376
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>--
>Jim Starkey
>Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
>978 526-1376
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power Flow Exhaust System |
Jim,
How many hours did you fly your plane in the last 25 years? I don't know of anyone
who has had a complete failure of a pf. It is possible that there have been
some failures of a part or two, but that is not a complete failure of the
system. I would bet that your exhaust is not original or has been serviced/repaired
at some time in the past, wether it was logged or not. Either it was repaired
or it has been unairworthy for many years. It was made by man, it will
fail at some point. PF is no different, except you can replace individual parts
instead of the entire exhaust. Try one you might like it.
APB
Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com> wrote:
> I'm interested in a new cowl because mine is 30 years old, beat up,
>and showing fatigue cracks here and there. I'm not interested in a
>Power Flow exhaust because the performance difference is insignificant
>for how I use my airplane, and, cost aside, not worth the maintenance
>hassle. Before you say, "what maintenance hassle", what I have heard
>over and over on the other list is that the Power Flow exhaust has a
>lifetime of about 800 hours before it cracks. This is usually followed
>up by an accusation that the unhappy customer didn't install it
>correctly, so it's his fault and what did he expect. I don't want an
>exhaust that regularly fails and I don't want to be blamed when it does.
>
>My current exhaust system has been recently rebuilt, and if the survives
>for another 25 years, I'll be too old to care on way or the other. But
>my desire to trade a reliable system for an expensive unreliable one for
>a performance delta that I don't care about leaves me cold.
>
>A new cowl would solve a problem I have. A Power Flow exhaust would
>introduce a problem I don't have. Enough said.
>
>
>On 10/4/2010 3:24 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>> Jim,
>>
>> Just what is it that you don't like about the Power Flow? Can you be
>> specific?
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Mon, October 4, 2010 12:06:45 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>> price. Deposit
>>
>> That's fine. I'm just a potential customer giving you feedback.
>> Please feel free to ignore it if you don't like it.
>>
>>
>> On 10/4/2010 2:36 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>> For the record, the standard exhaust is one of the worst designs
>>> anyone ever came up with.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>> *Sent:* Mon, October 4, 2010 10:14:01 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>> price. Deposit
>>>
>>> For the record, I would buy the cowl if it were available with the
>>> standard exhaust, but I wouldn't even consider installing a Power
>>> Flow exhaust system to get it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/4/2010 12:29 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>>> Hal,
>>>>
>>>> Nothing is impossible. Figure hiring a DER and involving the FAA
>>>> for about 2 or 3 years. At bare minimum, you'll need about 4 or 5
>>>> climb cooling tests, 3 (if everything works right the first time)
>>>> carb heat rise tests, and 3 climb performance tests. I would
>>>> estimate somewhere in the $15,000 range.
>>>>
>>>> Gary.
>>>> And, thanks again for all the rides at Dayton.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* halb221 <halb221@centurylink.net>
>>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 4:08:05 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>>> price. Deposit
>>>>
>>>> Gary, Hello from Alabama
>>>> I am very interested in your your new deal, I do have one question,
>>>> how hard would it be to get approval to use your cowl with the
>>>> standard aa5b exhaust system?
>>>> Hal B (Beauchesne) (Your part time ride at Dayton) cell:
>>>> 334-301-9641
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* Gary Vogt <mailto:teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
>>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 03, 2010 2:47 PM
>>>> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>>> price. Deposit
>>>>
>>>> Scott,
>>>>
>>>> I'll let you know when I have 10 or more orders. As for the
>>>> payment schedule, I'll need $3250 deposit and the rest payable
>>>> upon completion of the cowling. It's a killer deal. I want to
>>>> keep Composite Dave from getting a real job and not being
>>>> available to work on my other projects.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Scott Trejo <md11strejo@YAHOO.COM
>>>> <mailto:md11strejo@YAHOO.COM>>
>>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 5:18:41 AM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the
>>>> going price,
>>>>
>>>> Gary, Whats the time frame on which you need full payment. I
>>>> would really like in on this deal.
>>>>
>>>> Scott Trejo
>>>>
>>>> PS. Was it 20 degrees cooler with the fairing? Any speed
>>>> gain or loss?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 2, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you're on facebook, you've seen the latest mod on the
>>>>> cowling. It worked and it didn't. I'll post pics tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've worked out a deal with Composite Dave so we can get some
>>>>> of these out on the market. If we can get orders for 10 to 15
>>>>> cowlings, I'll sell them for $6250. You install and paint.
>>>>> That includes $500 worth of new baffles. You pay the
>>>>> shipping. So, for roughly twice the price of a nose bowl, you
>>>>> get a whole new cowling. Let me know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Projects that are currently in process.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. PMA for the instrument panel overlays.
>>>>> 2. PMA for the fiberglass eyebrow.
>>>>> 3. Wheel pants.
>>>>> 4. Fiberglass horizontal root fairings. Just fine tuning the
>>>>> tooling. It's ready to go.
>>>>> 5. A cup holder to replace the ash tray. Just fine tuning the
>>>>> tooling.
>>>>> 6. An STC to replace the nose gear boot with a fairing that
>>>>> stays on the cowling (or comes off separately.) If I hadn't
>>>>> tried the cowling with and without the fairing, I'd have never
>>>>> guessed it was worth 20 degrees in CHT cooling.
>>>>> 7. A real AA5x Tail Dragger. By real, I mean actually moving
>>>>> the location of the main gear and not just using splayed gear
>>>>> legs to get the right geometry.
>>>>> 8. 10:1 IO360B1E with a constant speed prop.
>>>>> 9. Fiberglass elevator and rudder tips.
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>>>> Date: 10/03/10
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jim Starkey
>>> Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
>>> 978 526-1376
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Starkey
>> Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
>> 978 526-1376
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>--
>Jim Starkey
>Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
>978 526-1376
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power Flow Exhaust System |
PF is no different, except you can replace individual parts instead of the
entire exhaust.
Individual parts of the OEM exhaust system can be replaced. The muffler
with pipes is one part, each of the risers are separate as are the clamps
and the muffler shroud.
For most people the issue is the cost. The initial cost is around $4000,
whereas typically most people just need a new muffler to get them going
again. That is not to say that many of the original risers are beyond their
lifespan and the clamps need to be replaced on somewhat of a regular basis
as well. Most Tiger mufflers only last about 800 hrs before the internal
flame cone burns out.
Cliff
PF Dealer who would like to sell a lot more of them!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Airport Bum" <aa5_driver@YAHOO.COM>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Power Flow Exhaust System
>
> Jim,
>
> How many hours did you fly your plane in the last 25 years? I don't know
> of anyone who has had a complete failure of a pf. It is possible that
> there have been some failures of a part or two, but that is not a complete
> failure of the system. I would bet that your exhaust is not original or
> has been serviced/repaired at some time in the past, wether it was logged
> or not. Either it was repaired or it has been unairworthy for many years.
> It was made by man, it will fail at some point. PF is no different,
> except you can replace individual parts instead of the entire exhaust.
> Try one you might like it.
>
> APB
>
> Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm interested in a new cowl because mine is 30 years old, beat up,
>>and showing fatigue cracks here and there. I'm not interested in a
>>Power Flow exhaust because the performance difference is insignificant
>>for how I use my airplane, and, cost aside, not worth the maintenance
>>hassle. Before you say, "what maintenance hassle", what I have heard
>>over and over on the other list is that the Power Flow exhaust has a
>>lifetime of about 800 hours before it cracks. This is usually followed
>>up by an accusation that the unhappy customer didn't install it
>>correctly, so it's his fault and what did he expect. I don't want an
>>exhaust that regularly fails and I don't want to be blamed when it does.
>>
>>My current exhaust system has been recently rebuilt, and if the survives
>>for another 25 years, I'll be too old to care on way or the other. But
>>my desire to trade a reliable system for an expensive unreliable one for
>>a performance delta that I don't care about leaves me cold.
>>
>>A new cowl would solve a problem I have. A Power Flow exhaust would
>>introduce a problem I don't have. Enough said.
>>
>>
>>
>>On 10/4/2010 3:24 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> Just what is it that you don't like about the Power Flow? Can you be
>>> specific?
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>> *Sent:* Mon, October 4, 2010 12:06:45 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>> price. Deposit
>>>
>>> That's fine. I'm just a potential customer giving you feedback.
>>> Please feel free to ignore it if you don't like it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/4/2010 2:36 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>>> For the record, the standard exhaust is one of the worst designs
>>>> anyone ever came up with.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
>>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>> *Sent:* Mon, October 4, 2010 10:14:01 AM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>>> price. Deposit
>>>>
>>>> For the record, I would buy the cowl if it were available with the
>>>> standard exhaust, but I wouldn't even consider installing a Power
>>>> Flow exhaust system to get it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/4/2010 12:29 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>>>> Hal,
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing is impossible. Figure hiring a DER and involving the FAA
>>>>> for about 2 or 3 years. At bare minimum, you'll need about 4 or 5
>>>>> climb cooling tests, 3 (if everything works right the first time)
>>>>> carb heat rise tests, and 3 climb performance tests. I would
>>>>> estimate somewhere in the $15,000 range.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary.
>>>>> And, thanks again for all the rides at Dayton.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* halb221 <halb221@centurylink.net>
>>>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>>> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 4:08:05 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>>>> price. Deposit
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary, Hello from Alabama
>>>>> I am very interested in your your new deal, I do have one question,
>>>>> how hard would it be to get approval to use your cowl with the
>>>>> standard aa5b exhaust system?
>>>>> Hal B (Beauchesne) (Your part time ride at Dayton) cell:
>>>>> 334-301-9641
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> *From:* Gary Vogt <mailto:teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
>>>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>>> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 03, 2010 2:47 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>>>> price. Deposit
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll let you know when I have 10 or more orders. As for the
>>>>> payment schedule, I'll need $3250 deposit and the rest payable
>>>>> upon completion of the cowling. It's a killer deal. I want to
>>>>> keep Composite Dave from getting a real job and not being
>>>>> available to work on my other projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Scott Trejo <md11strejo@YAHOO.COM
>>>>> <mailto:md11strejo@YAHOO.COM>>
>>>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>>> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 5:18:41 AM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the
>>>>> going price,
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary, Whats the time frame on which you need full payment. I
>>>>> would really like in on this deal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott Trejo
>>>>>
>>>>> PS. Was it 20 degrees cooler with the fairing? Any speed
>>>>> gain or loss?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 2, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're on facebook, you've seen the latest mod on the
>>>>>> cowling. It worked and it didn't. I'll post pics tomorrow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've worked out a deal with Composite Dave so we can get some
>>>>>> of these out on the market. If we can get orders for 10 to 15
>>>>>> cowlings, I'll sell them for $6250. You install and paint.
>>>>>> That includes $500 worth of new baffles. You pay the
>>>>>> shipping. So, for roughly twice the price of a nose bowl, you
>>>>>> get a whole new cowling. Let me know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Projects that are currently in process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. PMA for the instrument panel overlays.
>>>>>> 2. PMA for the fiberglass eyebrow.
>>>>>> 3. Wheel pants.
>>>>>> 4. Fiberglass horizontal root fairings. Just fine tuning the
>>>>>> tooling. It's ready to go.
>>>>>> 5. A cup holder to replace the ash tray. Just fine tuning the
>>>>>> tooling.
>>>>>> 6. An STC to replace the nose gear boot with a fairing that
>>>>>> stays on the cowling (or comes off separately.) If I hadn't
>>>>>> tried the cowling with and without the fairing, I'd have never
>>>>>> guessed it was worth 20 degrees in CHT cooling.
>>>>>> 7. A real AA5x Tail Dragger. By real, I mean actually moving
>>>>>> the location of the main gear and not just using splayed gear
>>>>>> legs to get the right geometry.
>>>>>> 8. 10:1 IO360B1E with a constant speed prop.
>>>>>> 9. Fiberglass elevator and rudder tips.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>>
>>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>>>>> Date: 10/03/10
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jim Starkey
>>>> Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
>>>> 978 526-1376
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jim Starkey
>>> Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
>>> 978 526-1376
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>>--
>>Jim Starkey
>>Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
>>978 526-1376
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power Flow Exhaust System |
What Jim wants is what the majority of owners need, what Gary is offering is what
the minority of owners want.
Gary's desire is to design improvements in both design and performance and the
new cowl with PF scores on both these fronts, but is it what most need. ?
There is no doubt in my mind if the cowl had gone with the stock exhaust sales
would have been easier to come by. Would Gray have been happy with the results,
no as thankfully for the future development of our planes he always strives
for the best at the expense of self reward.
Oh BTW, notice my message just contains my reply and doesn't contain every thing
that has gone before. Try not to just add your response to an existing thread
and hit the send key.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314677#314677
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power Flow Exhaust System |
> What Jim wants is what the majority of owners need, what Gary is offering
> is what the minority of owners want.
>
> Gary's desire is to design improvements in both design and performance and
> the new cowl with PF scores on both these fronts, but is it what most
> need. ?
>
> There is no doubt in my mind if the cowl had gone with the stock exhaust
> sales would have been easier to come by. Would Gray have been happy with
> the results, no as thankfully for the future development of our planes he
> always strives for the best at the expense of self reward.
It is my OPINION that getting the STC amended to include the stock exhaust
would not be nearly as onerous as Gary mentioned (2-3 years and $15,000).
>From a logical point of view why would it be so hard to get approval when
that is the stock system and Gary has shown that the cooling is better with
his cowl than with the stock configuration. And the PF would not materially
affect cooling, except to possibly make it worse due to the higher power
output of the engine. The FAA should just rubber stamp the approval, but
logic does not prevail a lot of times with them. Having the cowling
approved for BOTH exhaust systems would more than double the market size I
would think.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "grumpyparts" <i.r.m@btinternet.com>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 2:25 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Power Flow Exhaust System
> <i.r.m@btinternet.com>
>
> What Jim wants is what the majority of owners need, what Gary is offering
> is what the minority of owners want.
>
> Gary's desire is to design improvements in both design and performance and
> the new cowl with PF scores on both these fronts, but is it what most
> need. ?
>
> There is no doubt in my mind if the cowl had gone with the stock exhaust
> sales would have been easier to come by. Would Gray have been happy with
> the results, no as thankfully for the future development of our planes he
> always strives for the best at the expense of self reward.
>
> Oh BTW, notice my message just contains my reply and doesn't contain every
> thing that has gone before. Try not to just add your response to an
> existing thread and hit the send key.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314677#314677
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power Flow Exhaust System |
FWIW, my stock muffler came apart inside (whatever you call the part with
Swiss Cheese holes in it) at barely 600 hours and blocked off most of the
exhaust exit. It got progressively worse over the course of 3 to 4 hours of
flying. It was kind of insidious at first, just a bit sluggish, but I
figured density altitude was the culprit or maybe the maximum weight I was
trying to get airborne, but then a chunk of muffler must have broken loose
because the power went way down and I barely had enough to maintain minimum
speed and land.
The repair was expensive because it happened in the middle of nowhere at
Harris Ranch airport in central California. I was a dunderhead because I
never thought to shine a flashlight up the exhaust pipe. If I had, I would
have seen the blockage immediately, or perhaps a crack earlier on. Anyway,
the repair process involved flying back and forth from Gary Vogt's place in
his plane to bring down an new muffler ($$$..overnighted..$$$) from
Fletcher. We field changed the muffler on the ramp at Harris Ranch in the
middle of a really annoying dust storm where I thought my cowling was going
to end up in the next county. Also the plane was filthy inside and out and
required five hours of cleaning later. After rightly paying for Gary's time
and fuel, and the overnight shipping, and a couple of days of lost pay from
my job, the cost of the muffle itself was a relatively small part of the
final bill.
I took two things away from this experience. First, a mechanical problem in
a remote area can be big bucks regardless of what the replacment part costs.
Second, I now always preflight the exhaust system by shining a light up the
pipe. I can see the "Swiss Cheese" cannister that way. If it's cracked,
looks broken, or anything makes a funny sound like something's loose when
you tap on it with your knuckle or a rubber mallet, I'll have it check out.
Bill Kelly
AA1C 39065
> PF is no different, except you can replace individual parts instead of the
> entire exhaust.
>
> Individual parts of the OEM exhaust system can be replaced. The muffler
> with pipes is one part, each of the risers are separate as are the clamps
> and the muffler shroud.
>
> For most people the issue is the cost. The initial cost is around $4000,
> whereas typically most people just need a new muffler to get them going
> again. That is not to say that many of the original risers are beyond
> their lifespan and the clamps need to be replaced on somewhat of a regular
> basis as well. Most Tiger mufflers only last about 800 hrs before the
> internal flame cone burns out.
>
> Cliff
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power Flow Exhaust System |
> I took two things away from this experience. First, a mechanical problem
> in a remote area can be big bucks regardless of what the replacment part
> costs. Second, I now always preflight the exhaust system by shining a
> light up the pipe. I can see the "Swiss Cheese" cannister that way. If
> it's cracked, looks broken, or anything makes a funny sound like
> something's loose when you tap on it with your knuckle or a rubber mallet,
> I'll have it check out.
This is what preventative maintenance is all about. These flame cones don't
just fail instantly. You can tell if you look periodically if the metal is
getting thin to the point that it is starting to fail, i.e. a small piece
joining two holes will be missing, etc.
Cliff
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power Flow Exhaust System |
I had a short stack power flowflow installed on my Tiger about 4 yeas
ago by powerflow at DAB. I had the prop balanced at the time (part of
the $500 installation cost). I have had no problems, no cracks etc. I
lube the tubes every annual with high temp lube as per powerflow
instructions, but that is about it.
My Tiger climbs better (about 200 f/m better) than stock, and as I fly
off a 2500 foot grass strip, I appreciate the extra performance. Also
see about a 100 rpm increase in static RPM than I did with the stock
exhaust.
I have also read some of the issues other folks claim they have had, but
everyone I personally know with powerflow systems on not just Tigers
but other airframes as well (Cessna's, Mooney's) are satisfied with both
the performance and maintenance of their systems.
Claude
From: Jim Starkey
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Power Flow Exhaust System
I'm interested in a new cowl because mine is 30 years old, beat up, and
showing fatigue cracks here and there. I'm not interested in a Power
Flow exhaust because the performance difference is insignificant for how
I use my airplane, and, cost aside, not worth the maintenance hassle.
Before you say, "what maintenance hassle", what I have heard over and
over on the other list is that the Power Flow exhaust has a lifetime of
about 800 hours before it cracks. This is usually followed up by an
accusation that the unhappy customer didn't install it correctly, so
it's his fault and what did he expect. I don't want an exhaust that
regularly fails and I don't want to be blamed when it does.
My current exhaust system has been recently rebuilt, and if the survives
for another 25 years, I'll be too old to care on way or the other. But
my desire to trade a reliable system for an expensive unreliable one for
a performance delta that I don't care about leaves me cold.
A new cowl would solve a problem I have. A Power Flow exhaust would
introduce a problem I don't have. Enough said.
On 10/4/2010 3:24 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
Jim,
Just what is it that you don't like about the Power Flow? Can you be
specific?
Gary
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 12:06:45 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
price. Deposit
That's fine. I'm just a potential customer giving you feedback.
Please feel free to ignore it if you don't like it.
On 10/4/2010 2:36 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
For the record, the standard exhaust is one of the worst designs
anyone ever came up with.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 10:14:01 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
price. Deposit
For the record, I would buy the cowl if it were available with the
standard exhaust, but I wouldn't even consider installing a Power Flow
exhaust system to get it.
On 10/4/2010 12:29 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
Hal,
Nothing is impossible. Figure hiring a DER and involving the FAA
for about 2 or 3 years. At bare minimum, you'll need about 4 or 5 climb
cooling tests, 3 (if everything works right the first time) carb heat
rise tests, and 3 climb performance tests. I would estimate somewhere
in the $15,000 range.
Gary.
And, thanks again for all the rides at Dayton.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: halb221 <halb221@centurylink.net>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 4:08:05 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
price. Deposit
Gary, Hello from Alabama
I am very interested in your your new deal, I do have one
question, how hard would it be to get approval to use your cowl with the
standard aa5b exhaust system?
Hal B (Beauchesne) (Your part time ride at Dayton) cell:
334-301-9641
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 2:47 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
price. Deposit
Scott,
I'll let you know when I have 10 or more orders. As for the
payment schedule, I'll need $3250 deposit and the rest payable upon
completion of the cowling. It's a killer deal. I want to keep
Composite Dave from getting a real job and not being available to work
on my other projects.
Gary
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Scott Trejo <md11strejo@YAHOO.COM>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 5:18:41 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
price,
Gary, Whats the time frame on which you need full payment. I
would really like in on this deal.
Scott Trejo
PS. Was it 20 degrees cooler with the fairing? Any speed
gain or loss?
On Oct 2, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
If you're on facebook, you've seen the latest mod on the
cowling. It worked and it didn't. I'll post pics tomorrow.
I've worked out a deal with Composite Dave so we can get some
of these out on the market. If we can get orders for 10 to 15 cowlings,
I'll sell them for $6250. You install and paint. That includes $500
worth of new baffles. You pay the shipping. So, for roughly twice the
price of a nose bowl, you get a whole new cowling. Let me know.
Projects that are currently in process.
1. PMA for the instrument panel overlays.
2. PMA for the fiberglass eyebrow.
3. Wheel pants.
4. Fiberglass horizontal root fairings. Just fine tuning the
tooling. It's ready to go.
5. A cup holder to replace the ash tray. Just fine tuning the
tooling.
6. An STC to replace the nose gear boot with a fairing that
stays on the cowling (or comes off separately.) If I hadn't tried the
cowling with and without the fairing, I'd have never guessed it was
worth 20 degrees in CHT cooling.
7. A real AA5x Tail Dragger. By real, I mean actually moving
the location of the main gear and not just using splayed gear legs to
get the right geometry.
8. 10:1 IO360B1E with a constant speed prop.
9. Fiberglass elevator and rudder tips.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matron
ics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.c
om/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matron
ics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.c
om/c
------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Date: 10/03/10
--
Jim Starkey
Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
978 526-1376
--
Jim Starkey
Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
978 526-1376
--
Jim Starkey
Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
978 526-1376
__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
signature database 5451 (20100914) __________
The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 5451 (20100914) __________
The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power Flow Exhaust System |
On more than one occasion, I've seen the flame arrestor in the stock muffler
fail and partially to totally block the exhaust pipe. For this reason alone,
from a safety standpoint, I would never recommend the stock muffler.
________________________________
From: Airport Bum <aa5_driver@YAHOO.COM>
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 1:24:51 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Power Flow Exhaust System
Jim,
How many hours did you fly your plane in the last 25 years? I don't know of
anyone who has had a complete failure of a pf. It is possible that there have
been some failures of a part or two, but that is not a complete failure of the
system. I would bet that your exhaust is not original or has been
serviced/repaired at some time in the past, wether it was logged or not. Either
it was repaired or it has been unairworthy for many years. It was made by man,
it will fail at some point. PF is no different, except you can replace
individual parts instead of the entire exhaust. Try one you might like it.
APB
Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com> wrote:
> I'm interested in a new cowl because mine is 30 years old, beat up,
>and showing fatigue cracks here and there. I'm not interested in a
>Power Flow exhaust because the performance difference is insignificant
>for how I use my airplane, and, cost aside, not worth the maintenance
>hassle. Before you say, "what maintenance hassle", what I have heard
>over and over on the other list is that the Power Flow exhaust has a
>lifetime of about 800 hours before it cracks. This is usually followed
>up by an accusation that the unhappy customer didn't install it
>correctly, so it's his fault and what did he expect. I don't want an
>exhaust that regularly fails and I don't want to be blamed when it does.
>
>My current exhaust system has been recently rebuilt, and if the survives
>for another 25 years, I'll be too old to care on way or the other. But
>my desire to trade a reliable system for an expensive unreliable one for
>a performance delta that I don't care about leaves me cold.
>
>A new cowl would solve a problem I have. A Power Flow exhaust would
>introduce a problem I don't have. Enough said.
>
>
>On 10/4/2010 3:24 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>> Jim,
>>
>> Just what is it that you don't like about the Power Flow? Can you be
>> specific?
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Mon, October 4, 2010 12:06:45 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>> price. Deposit
>>
>> That's fine. I'm just a potential customer giving you feedback.
>> Please feel free to ignore it if you don't like it.
>>
>>
>> On 10/4/2010 2:36 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>> For the record, the standard exhaust is one of the worst designs
>>> anyone ever came up with.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Jim Starkey <jstarkey@nimbusdb.com>
>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>> *Sent:* Mon, October 4, 2010 10:14:01 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>> price. Deposit
>>>
>>> For the record, I would buy the cowl if it were available with the
>>> standard exhaust, but I wouldn't even consider installing a Power
>>> Flow exhaust system to get it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/4/2010 12:29 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>>> Hal,
>>>>
>>>> Nothing is impossible. Figure hiring a DER and involving the FAA
>>>> for about 2 or 3 years. At bare minimum, you'll need about 4 or 5
>>>> climb cooling tests, 3 (if everything works right the first time)
>>>> carb heat rise tests, and 3 climb performance tests. I would
>>>> estimate somewhere in the $15,000 range.
>>>>
>>>> Gary.
>>>> And, thanks again for all the rides at Dayton.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* halb221 <halb221@centurylink.net>
>>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 4:08:05 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>>> price. Deposit
>>>>
>>>> Gary, Hello from Alabama
>>>> I am very interested in your your new deal, I do have one question,
>>>> how hard would it be to get approval to use your cowl with the
>>>> standard aa5b exhaust system?
>>>> Hal B (Beauchesne) (Your part time ride at Dayton) cell:
>>>> 334-301-9641
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* Gary Vogt <mailto:teamgrumman@YAHOO.COM>
>>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 03, 2010 2:47 PM
>>>> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the going
>>>> price. Deposit
>>>>
>>>> Scott,
>>>>
>>>> I'll let you know when I have 10 or more orders. As for the
>>>> payment schedule, I'll need $3250 deposit and the rest payable
>>>> upon completion of the cowling. It's a killer deal. I want to
>>>> keep Composite Dave from getting a real job and not being
>>>> available to work on my other projects.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Scott Trejo <md11strejo@YAHOO.COM
>>>> <mailto:md11strejo@YAHOO.COM>>
>>>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>>> <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Sun, October 3, 2010 5:18:41 AM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowling. 25% off the
>>>> going price,
>>>>
>>>> Gary, Whats the time frame on which you need full payment. I
>>>> would really like in on this deal.
>>>>
>>>> Scott Trejo
>>>>
>>>> PS. Was it 20 degrees cooler with the fairing? Any speed
>>>> gain or loss?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 2, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you're on facebook, you've seen the latest mod on the
>>>>> cowling. It worked and it didn't. I'll post pics tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've worked out a deal with Composite Dave so we can get some
>>>>> of these out on the market. If we can get orders for 10 to 15
>>>>> cowlings, I'll sell them for $6250. You install and paint.
>>>>> That includes $500 worth of new baffles. You pay the
>>>>> shipping. So, for roughly twice the price of a nose bowl, you
>>>>> get a whole new cowling. Let me know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Projects that are currently in process.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. PMA for the instrument panel overlays.
>>>>> 2. PMA for the fiberglass eyebrow.
>>>>> 3. Wheel pants.
>>>>> 4. Fiberglass horizontal root fairings. Just fine tuning the
>>>>> tooling. It's ready to go.
>>>>> 5. A cup holder to replace the ash tray. Just fine tuning the
>>>>> tooling.
>>>>> 6. An STC to replace the nose gear boot with a fairing that
>>>>> stays on the cowling (or comes off separately.) If I hadn't
>>>>> tried the cowling with and without the fairing, I'd have never
>>>>> guessed it was worth 20 degrees in CHT cooling.
>>>>> 7. A real AA5x Tail Dragger. By real, I mean actually moving
>>>>> the location of the main gear and not just using splayed gear
>>>>> legs to get the right geometry.
>>>>> 8. 10:1 IO360B1E with a constant speed prop.
>>>>> 9. Fiberglass elevator and rudder tips.
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=%22http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com>
>>>> Date: 10/03/10
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jim Starkey
>>> Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
>>> 978 526-1376
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Starkey
>> Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
>> 978 526-1376
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>--
>Jim Starkey
>Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
>978 526-1376
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Jaguar cowling with the stock muffler STC |
The first question the FAA will ask (through the DER) is, "Is the cowling
exactly the same as it was with the exhaust system previously tested and
approved?"
The answer is, "No."
The next question is, "Is the pressure drop across the cylinders exactly the
same as it was with the cowling/muffler combination previously tested and
approved?"
The answer is, "I don't know."
The next question is, "Does the possible change in pressure in the area under
the cowling near where the carb heat gets its air affect the carb heat rise
temperature?"
The answer is, "I don't know."
The next question is, "Does the possible change in pressure and air flow paths
in the area under the cowling affect the temperature of the accessories (mags,
vacuum pump, etc.)?"
The answer is, "I don't know."
The next question is, "Does the exhaust pipe hanging out further forward and
coming through the affect climb performance?"
The answer is, "I don't know."
The next question is, "Do you have approved drawings for the proposed changes?"
The answer is, "No."
So, without approved data, tests will need to be performed to determine just
what the answers are.
It seems like it would be easy to certify the cowling with the stock muffler,
doesn't it. I mean, hey, the stock Tiger has one. What many of you fail to
grasp is just what changing a small thing like the muffler would entail. There
is absolutely nothing 'logical' about getting an STC. It's all about examining
every possible affect a change makes and then investigating that possibility and
how it MIGHT affect the safety of the airplane.
Case in point: The carb heat rise with the Power Flow Exhaust System (PFES) was
approved for the stock cowling. The Jaguar cowling, in no way, has any affect
on the ability of the PFES to generate enough heat to pass the carb heat rise
test. I created a company test report, with pictures, explaining how the
cowling does not affect carb heat rise tests. Yet, someone in the FAA felt like
it may be possible that the change in pressure drop across the cylinders could
'possibly' cause the pressure at the inlet into the PFES carb heat portion of
the muffler/collector to reduce the ability to achieve the required 90 degree
temperature rise at the carb inlet. Those tests, alone, took 3 months and
thousands of dollars.
Case in point: It's fairly obvious that the Jaguar cowling creates less drag.
I had to complete 5 climb performance tests at gross weight to show I met or
exceeded the performance of the POH. Those 5 flight tests took 2 months to
complete.
If you've seen any of the initial pictures of my plane with the Jaguar cowling
on it, you'll see it had the stock muffler. Less than a year after those pics
were taken, the entire side of the stock muffler blew out and cooked the inside
of the cowling. I'm a hot rodder at heart and I know the benefits of the PFES.
I ordered a Power Flow the next day. It wasn't a question I needed to ponder
for very long.
________________________________
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 2:43:15 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Power Flow Exhaust System
> What Jim wants is what the majority of owners need, what Gary is offering is
>what the minority of owners want.
>
> Gary's desire is to design improvements in both design and performance and the
>new cowl with PF scores on both these fronts, but is it what most need. ?
>
> There is no doubt in my mind if the cowl had gone with the stock exhaust sales
>would have been easier to come by. Would Gray have been happy with the results,
>no as thankfully for the future development of our planes he always strives for
>the best at the expense of self reward.
It is my OPINION that getting the STC amended to include the stock exhaust would
not be nearly as onerous as Gary mentioned (2-3 years and $15,000).
> From a logical point of view why would it be so hard to get approval when
that is the stock system and Gary has shown that the cooling is better with his
cowl than with the stock configuration. And the PF would not materially affect
cooling, except to possibly make it worse due to the higher power output of the
engine. The FAA should just rubber stamp the approval, but logic does not
prevail a lot of times with them. Having the cowling approved for BOTH exhaust
systems would more than double the market size I would think.
Cliff
----- Original Message ----- From: "grumpyparts" <i.r.m@btinternet.com>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 2:25 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Power Flow Exhaust System
>
> What Jim wants is what the majority of owners need, what Gary is offering is
>what the minority of owners want.
>
> Gary's desire is to design improvements in both design and performance and the
>new cowl with PF scores on both these fronts, but is it what most need. ?
>
> There is no doubt in my mind if the cowl had gone with the stock exhaust sales
>would have been easier to come by. Would Gray have been happy with the results,
>no as thankfully for the future development of our planes he always strives for
>the best at the expense of self reward.
>
> Oh BTW, notice my message just contains my reply and doesn't contain every
>thing that has gone before. Try not to just add your response to an existing
>thread and hit the send key.
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|