Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:46 AM - Re: here's the situation. what would you do? (lmassaro)
2. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: here's the situation. what would you do? (Gary Vogt)
3. 10:56 AM - Call Guido, explain the problem, and let him handle it.............. (GOLDPILOT@AOL.COM)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: here's the situation. what would you do? |
> [b]In 2004, I did an annual on a plane based at Mather Field in Sacramento.
The owner had heard I was moving to Auburn, 7 flying miles from Mather. At the
time of the annual, I recorded a few minor cracks in the horizontal supports.
The CE was new at that time. I told him, we'd look at it the next year.
>
> (text deleted)
>
> At this point, the plane needs an engine, reassembly, paint, interior, horizontal
braces replaces, avionics, and who knows what else. Without labor, there
is at least $50,000 in expenses to make the plane airworthy.
>
>
> What would you do?
>
>
What to do now:
Spend a few $$$ and get a lawyer to draft up a letter stating your intentions to
:
1) Store the plane at your facility (outside) effective immediately at a rate of
$$$ / mo. until the plane (or whats left of it) is moved by the owner.
2) File a lein for XX dollars for past storage time (x months at 200.00 per month).
My opinion on fling a lein for all the other work performed to date may
be contested in court (if it ever got that far) unless the work you performed
was "pre-approved" in some manner.
Herein lies the fun running a business as yours. Trusting the customer. When
you go to Totoya to get service, they provide an estimate of the repair and have
you sign a doc stating you "authorize" the work. Do you have anything like
that or was everything a simple handshake?
3) As backup, prepare a chronological list of all work performed and items purchased
for the restoration including credits applied for the sale of any avionics
removed as per his request in the event he contests in court.
4) Get a quote to ship the aircraft (are the wings still off?) to wherever he
would like it moved to and provide that estimate.
5) Consult with a lawyer and consider notifying the owner your intention to treat
the aircraft as "abandoned" and your intention to take it through "adverse
possession". Provide a time frame at which this would occur. Obviously, this
would be a tactic to get him off his ass to take some action (paying you, moving
the plane, whatever)
Based on his (or his wife's) obvious desire not to spend any $$$ on this issue,
I doubt he'd spend any money on lawyer costs and simply wants a "cheap" way out
of this quagmire. Obviously, his desire would be to leave everything at your
place for eternity at no cost which is not realistic.
Have this letter sent officially (registered mail) which legally satisfies your
obligation to "formally" notify him of your intentions. Make sure the letter
provides a specific "time is of the essence" statement or a specific time a reply
must be received in writing from him or specific action defined in (1), (2)
and (4) above will be taken.
What to do in the future:
Well, it just sucks that some people are like this. Protect yourself in the future
(especially with any new customers) who have no prior history with you.
When preparing an estimate, get the approval to start work in writing. If you
are approved to to XX and you find you need to do YY, again, do what Toyota would
do:
"Hey Joe, in fixing XX, we found out YY is all F'ed up, it'll cost you $$$, whaddya
want to do?".
If the customer gives a verbal over the phone, document it in the invoice and
in a confirmation email. If you have any issues, you at least have it documented
which makes for a strong case vice the "he said, she said" situation.
The overall tone here is you are a business, plain and simple. In a perfect world,
handshakes and trust are great, but all it takes is one case like this to
change the way you do business in the future. One of the great things in this
business is you can have a personal relationship with your customers which benefits
both you and customer, but you have to balance the level of trust you
have with each customer based on how much $$$ you are willing to risk in the event
something happens with respect to that customer where a dispute arises.
I had a friend who was going through a divorce. Ive known him since 1st grade.
Trust him with my life. But when he needed 20K to get him through a rough patch
and to pay his divorce lawyer, I lent him the money. I also drafted up a
legal Promissory Note that he executed prior to me writing the check. Had my
lawyer review for $150.00. Might have been cold, but my friend understood completely
and promptly paid me back as expected. If it were 1K, would I have done
it...No. But just as in your case, you need to determine what is your threshold
in time and money you are willing to risk before going the "legal" route
in the operation of your business.
BTW...I hate lawyers (they are all out to f you), and hate being a cynic. But
in 25 years in business, they are a necessary evil and being a cynic has saved
me a lot of money...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315695#315695
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: here's the situation. what would you do? |
Hi Larry,
Thanks for the insight. Right now, I'm waiting to see what he wants to do. I
sent him both invoices, i.e., with and without the stuff he ordered and paid
for. If he wants to leave the seats, Power Flow, and cowling out of the
equation, he can pick up the plane for the expenses incurred prior to him not
coming back to work on his plane, plus the storage fees. He is supposed to get
back to me by Sunday. I made the suggestion to him (when he was here) to just
sign the plane over to me and let it go at that. I'd drop all the charges. So,
I'm waiting to see.
Gary
________________________________
From: lmassaro <lmassaro@tac-eng.com>
Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 4:44:05 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: here's the situation. what would you do?
> [b]In 2004, I did an annual on a plane based at Mather Field in Sacramento.
>The owner had heard I was moving to Auburn, 7 flying miles from Mather. At the
>time of the annual, I recorded a few minor cracks in the horizontal supports.
>The CE was new at that time. I told him, we'd look at it the next year.
>
>
> (text deleted)
>
> At this point, the plane needs an engine, reassembly, paint, interior,
>horizontal braces replaces, avionics, and who knows what else. Without labor,
>there is at least $50,000 in expenses to make the plane airworthy.
>
>
>
> What would you do?
>
>
What to do now:
Spend a few $$$ and get a lawyer to draft up a letter stating your intentions to
:
1) Store the plane at your facility (outside) effective immediately at a rate of
$$$ / mo. until the plane (or whats left of it) is moved by the owner.
2) File a lein for XX dollars for past storage time (x months at 200.00 per
month). My opinion on fling a lein for all the other work performed to date may
be contested in court (if it ever got that far) unless the work you performed
was "pre-approved" in some manner.
Herein lies the fun running a business as yours. Trusting the customer. When
you go to Totoya to get service, they provide an estimate of the repair and have
you sign a doc stating you "authorize" the work. Do you have anything like that
or was everything a simple handshake?
3) As backup, prepare a chronological list of all work performed and items
purchased for the restoration including credits applied for the sale of any
avionics removed as per his request in the event he contests in court.
4) Get a quote to ship the aircraft (are the wings still off?) to wherever he
would like it moved to and provide that estimate.
5) Consult with a lawyer and consider notifying the owner your intention to
treat the aircraft as "abandoned" and your intention to take it through "adverse
possession". Provide a time frame at which this would occur. Obviously, this
would be a tactic to get him off his ass to take some action (paying you, moving
the plane, whatever)
Based on his (or his wife's) obvious desire not to spend any $$$ on this issue,
I doubt he'd spend any money on lawyer costs and simply wants a "cheap" way out
of this quagmire. Obviously, his desire would be to leave everything at your
place for eternity at no cost which is not realistic.
Have this letter sent officially (registered mail) which legally satisfies your
obligation to "formally" notify him of your intentions. Make sure the letter
provides a specific "time is of the essence" statement or a specific time a
reply must be received in writing from him or specific action defined in (1),
(2) and (4) above will be taken.
What to do in the future:
Well, it just sucks that some people are like this. Protect yourself in the
future (especially with any new customers) who have no prior history with you.
When preparing an estimate, get the approval to start work in writing. If you
are approved to to XX and you find you need to do YY, again, do what Toyota
would do:
"Hey Joe, in fixing XX, we found out YY is all F'ed up, it'll cost you $$$,
whaddya want to do?".
If the customer gives a verbal over the phone, document it in the invoice and
in a confirmation email. If you have any issues, you at least have it
documented which makes for a strong case vice the "he said, she said" situation.
The overall tone here is you are a business, plain and simple. In a perfect
world, handshakes and trust are great, but all it takes is one case like this to
change the way you do business in the future. One of the great things in this
business is you can have a personal relationship with your customers which
benefits both you and customer, but you have to balance the level of trust you
have with each customer based on how much $$$ you are willing to risk in the
event something happens with respect to that customer where a dispute arises.
I had a friend who was going through a divorce. Ive known him since 1st grade.
Trust him with my life. But when he needed 20K to get him through a rough patch
and to pay his divorce lawyer, I lent him the money. I also drafted up a legal
Promissory Note that he executed prior to me writing the check. Had my lawyer
review for $150.00. Might have been cold, but my friend understood completely
and promptly paid me back as expected. If it were 1K, would I have done
it...No. But just as in your case, you need to determine what is your threshold
in time and money you are willing to risk before going the "legal" route in the
operation of your business.
BTW...I hate lawyers (they are all out to f you), and hate being a cynic. But
in 25 years in business, they are a necessary evil and being a cynic has saved
me a lot of money...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315695#315695
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Call Guido, explain the problem, and let him handle |
it..............
.........his brother Vinnie and Augie would love a vacation from Brooklyn
also!
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|