Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:37 AM - Re: brakes (FLYaDIVE)
2. 05:39 AM - Re: brakes (Bob Hodo)
3. 06:02 AM - Re: brakes (FLYaDIVE)
4. 09:46 AM - Re: brakes (Gary Vogt)
5. 09:53 AM - Fw: Fw: Avoid Chinese-Made Food & chocolate (Gary Vogt)
6. 10:44 AM - Re: brakes (bob.hodo@yahoo.com)
7. 12:21 PM - Re: brakes (Garner Rice)
8. 02:09 PM - Re: Fw: Fw: Avoid Chinese-Made Food & chocolate (Ronald Millman CPA)
9. 02:21 PM - Re: brakes (FLYaDIVE)
10. 03:37 PM - Re: brakes (Gary Vogt)
11. 04:42 PM - Re: brakes (flyv35b)
12. 08:01 PM - Re: brakes (Gary Vogt)
13. 08:39 PM - see the crack? (Gary Vogt)
14. 10:02 PM - Re: see the crack? (Rick Lindstrom)
Message 1
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Gary:
Is it BROKEN out or WORN out part of the pin that we are seeing?
If broken out then it is a smelting problem and you found the 1 in a
1,000,000.
If it is worn out...
What does the pad plate look like?
It looks like it is the pilot side brake. And the top pin.
Forward movement of the plane with braking would cause a rotational torque
upward in the direction of the top pin. This could constantly bang the pad
plate against the pin.
The angle of the ware would indicate at what point in the travel the maximum
pressure angle occurred.
But, would also show ware on the pad plate.
What does the pad look like?
Was the Piston kicked on an angle?
How was the Piston O-Ring?
Gary, you find some of the weirdest problems... It must be a West Coast
Thing... Too close to California.
Barry
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 1:59 AM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> OK, how would this happen?
>
>
--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 2
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>>>OK, how would this happen?<<<
Properly installed it could not have happened.- Right?
Sure looks like that ground away pin rode against a flat surface that was t
urning while it was still.- How does it fit against the top of the brake
rotor?- Is that a match?- How it got there and stayed there is quite a
puzzle, just from memory of how the pieces fit.
Bob Hodo
=0A=0A=0A
Message 3
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Gary & Bob H.:
Ya know I like Bob's answer/question. Is there more to the story that the
picture is not showing?
Did it rub against the rotor?
Barry
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>OK, how would this happen?<<<
>
> Properly installed it could not have happened. Right?
>
> Sure looks like that ground away pin rode against a flat surface that was
> turning while it was still. How does it fit against the top of the brake
> rotor? Is that a match? How it got there and stayed there is quite a
> puzzle, just from memory of how the pieces fit.
>
> Bob Hodo
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 4
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Your guess is as good as mine. I looked at all related parts. No abnormal
wear.
________________________________
From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 5:35:15 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
>>>OK, how would this happen?<<<
Properly installed it could not have happened. Right?
Sure looks like that ground away pin rode against a flat surface that was
turning while it was still. How does it fit against the top of the brake
rotor? Is that a match? How it got there and stayed there is quite a puzzle,
just from memory of how the pieces fit.
Bob Hodo
Message 5
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| Subject: | Fw: Fwd: Avoid Chinese-Made Food & chocolate |
Did any of us ever think we would someday have to monitor our food to make sure
the food we eat is safe. I had melamine dishes and my daughter still has some
that her dogs drink out of. I am so afraid for my grand kids and great grand
kids. People born after 1970 are so used to processed foods, they don't even
think of how dangerous our food can be. If God didn't make it DON'T EAT IT.
Maybe barcodes are going to be our lifesavers'
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Subject: Re: Avoid Chinese-Made Food & chocolate
>>>
>>>>Chinawill soon be the No. 1 world power without the use of nuclear weapons.
They
>>>>will obliterate America with its exports!!
>>>>>
>>>>>Snopes mentions avoiding the Pirates' Gold Coins chocolates sold at
>Costco.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>READ IT TO THE END
>>
>>"MADE IN CHINA "
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Everything you need to know aboutMELAMINE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Make sure you read to the veryend - very interesting -
>>>>perhaps the best way to tell where things are made....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chinamilk poisoning incidents makeeveryone afraid to look at the daily
news
>>>>report.
>>>>
>>>> Everyday, the reports are changing. No one can clearly tell us what to eat
and
>>>>what not to eat.
>>>>
>>>> 1.What really is poisoned milk?
>>>>
>>>> It is milk powder mixed with 'MELAMINE'
>>>>
>>>> What is Melamine used for?
>>>> It is an industrial chemical used in the production of melawares.
>>>>
>>>> It is also used in home decoration. ' US resistant board'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We all MUST understand that Melamine is used in INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - - - - - it CANNOT be eaten.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2.Why is Melamine added to milk powder?
>>>>
>>>> The most important nutrient in milk is protein.
>>>> And, Melamine has this same protein that contains 'NITROGEN'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Adding Melamine into milk reduces the actual milk content required, and
>>>>therefore it is cheaper than all milk. So it lowers the capital required in
the
>>>>production of milk products. Therefore it earns the business man more profit!
>>>>
>>>> Below is Melamine; doesn't it look like milk / milk powder?
>>>> It doesn't have any smell, so cannot be detected.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3.When was it discovered that it had been added to milk products.
>>>> In 2007, US cats and dogs died suddenly, they found that pet food from China
>>>>contained Melamine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Early in 2008, in China , an abnormal increase in infant cases of kidney stones
>>>>was reported.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In August 2008, China Sanlu Milk Powder tested for Melamine
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sept. 2008, the New Zealand government asked China to investigate this
>>problem
>>>> Sept. 21, 2008, they found that many food products in Taiwan tested for
>>>>Melamine
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4.What happens when Melamine ingested and digested?
>>>>
>>>> Melamine remains inside the kidneys. It forms into stones blocking the tubes.
>>
>>>> Pain will be imminent and the person cannot urinate. Kidney(s) will then
>>>swell.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Although surgery can remove the stones, it causes irreversible kidney damage.
>>
>>>> It can lead to the loss of kidney function and will require kidney dialysis
or
>>>>lead to death
>>>>
>>>> because of uremia.
>>>>
>>>> What is dialysis? In fact, it should be called 'blood washing'; it is filtering
>>>>all of the body's blood into
>>>>
>>>> a machine and then returning the blood back to the body.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The whole process takes 4 hours; and it is necessary to have dialysis
>>>> once every 3 days for the rest of your life.
>>>>
>>>> Below: A dialysis center
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Below: A large dialysis center
>>>>
>>>> A small hole is required in the arm to insert the sub-dialysis catheter.
>>>>
>>>> Why is it much more serious in babies?
>>>> A baby's kidneys are so very small and they drink a lot of milk powder.
>>>>
>>>> Below: A baby undergoing dialysis.
>>>>
>>>> China currenty has 13,000 infants hospitalized
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It does not matter how much Melamine a human being ingested (ate) (took).
>>>> The important point is: 'MELAMINE CANNOT BE EATEN!'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5.What foods are to be avoided?
>>>>
>>>> Foods from China that contain dairy products should be avoided.
>>>>
>>>>Remember: Foods with cream or milk should be avoided.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6.Which companies are affected?
>>>>
>>>> Hereunder are the companies affected with Melamine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Finally, share this information with friends so they will understand the risk
>>>>of milk poisoning.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The whole world is very afraid of "Made In China" 'black-hearted' goods.
>>>> Do you know how to differentiate which products are made in the USA , or
in
>>>>the Philippines , in Taiwan , or in China ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Here's How:
>>>>The first 3 digits of the barcode identify the country code wherein the product
>>>>was made.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For Example: ALL barcodes that start with 690, 691, 692, etc., . . up to
and
>>>>including 695 are all MADE IN CHINA .
>>>>Barcodes starting with 471 are printed on products Made in Taiwan .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You have a right to know. But the government and related departments never
>>>>inform or educate the public. Therefore we must educate ourselves,
>>>>
>>>> be vigilant, and RESCUE ourselves.
>>>>
>>>> Today, Chinese businessmen know that consumers will not select products
>>>> 'Made in China '. So, they make every effort not to show or state the country
>>
>>>> of origin on their products.However,you can now refer to the barcode.
>>>>DO remember if the first 3 digits are one of those between 690 and 695 inclusive
>>>>then it is a product Made in China .
>>>>OTHER BARCODES:
>>>>00 ~ 13 USA & CANADA
>>>>30 ~ 37 FRANCE
>>>>40 ~ 44 GERMANY
>>>>49 ~ JAPAN
>>>>50 ~ UK
>>>>57 ~ Denmark
>>>>64 ~ Finland
>>>>76 ~ Switzerland and Liechtenstein
>>>>628 ~ Saudi-Arabia
>>>>629 ~ United Arab Emirates
>>>> 740 ~ 745 - Central America
>>>>
>>>> All 480 Codes are Made in the Philippines.
>>>>
>>>> Please inform your family and friends.
>>>> Be aware! And help others to be aware!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
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Is the wear on that in pin fresh or did it happen a long time ago?
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 17:51:36 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
Your guess is as good as mine. I looked at all related parts. No abnormal
wear.
________________________________
From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 5:35:15 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
>>>OK, how would this happen?<<<
Properly installed it could not have happened. Right?
Sure looks like that ground away pin rode against a flat surface that was
turning while it was still. How does it fit against the top of the brake
rotor? Is that a match? How it got there and stayed there is quite a
puzzle,
just from memory of how the pieces fit.
Bob Hodo
Message 7
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Its simple. Somebody at some point want to remove the guide pin and couldn'
t figure how to get a wrench on it. So now they can put the metric wrench o
n it and twist. Isn't that SAP? (standard alabamy practice)
From: teamgrumman@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
Your guess is as good as mine. I looked at all related parts. No abnormal
wear.
From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed=2C November 10=2C 2010 5:35:15 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
>>>OK=2C how would this happen?<<<
Properly installed it could not have happened. Right?
Sure looks like that ground away pin rode against a flat surface that was t
urning while it was still. How does it fit against the top of the brake ro
tor? Is that a match? How it got there and stayed there is quite a puzzle
=2C just from memory of how the pieces fit.
Bob Hodo
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Fwd: Avoid Chinese-Made Food & chocolate |
?Have you checked this out with Snopes.com or UrbanLegends.com or
a similar website for accuracy?
Ron Millman, Skeptic.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt<mailto:teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
To: undisclosed recipients:<mailto:undisclosed%20recipients:>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:51 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Fw: Fwd: Avoid Chinese-Made Food &
chocolate
Did any of us ever think we would someday have to monitor our food to
make sure the food we eat is safe. I had melamine dishes and my
daughter still has some that her dogs drink out of. I am so afraid for
my grand kids and great grand kids. People born after 1970 are so used
to processed foods, they don't even think of how dangerous our food can
be. If God didn't make it DON'T EAT IT. Maybe barcodes are going to
be our lifesavers'
--
Subject: Re: Avoid Chinese-Made Food & chocolate
China will soon be the No. 1 world power
without the use of nuclear weapons. They will obliterate America with
its exports!!
Snopes mentions avoiding the Pirates' Gold
Coins chocolates sold at Costco.
READ IT TO THE END
"MADE IN CHINA "
Everything you need to know about MELAMINE
Make sure you read to the very end -
very interesting -
perhaps the best way to tell where things
are made....
China milk poisoning incidents make
everyone afraid to look at the daily news report.
Everyday, the reports are changing. No
one can clearly tell us what to eat and what not to eat.
1.What really is poisoned milk?
It is milk powder mixed with 'MELAMINE'
What is Melamine used for?
It is an industrial chemical used in the
production of melawares.
It is also used in home decoration. ' US
resistant board'
We all MUST understand that Melamine is
used in INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION
- - - - - it CANNOT be eaten.
2.Why is Melamine added to milk powder?
The most important nutrient in milk is
protein.
And, Melamine has this same protein that
contains 'NITROGEN'
Adding Melamine into milk reduces the
actual milk content required, and therefore it is cheaper than all
milk. So it lowers the capital required in the production of milk
products. Therefore it earns the business man more profit!
Below is Melamine; doesn't it look like
milk / milk powder?
It doesn't have any smell, so cannot be
detected.
3.When was it discovered that it had been
added to milk products.
In 2007, US cats and dogs died suddenly,
they found that pet food from China contained Melamine.
Early in 2008, in China , an abnormal
increase in infant cases of kidney stones was reported.
In August 2008, China Sanlu Milk Powder
tested for Melamine
Sept. 2008, the New Zealand government
asked China to investigate this problem
Sept. 21, 2008, they found that many food
products in Taiwan tested for Melamine
4.What happens when Melamine ingested and
digested?
Melamine remains inside the kidneys. It
forms into stones blocking the tubes.
Pain will be imminent and the person
cannot urinate. Kidney(s) will then swell.
Although surgery can remove the stones,
it causes irreversible kidney damage.
It can lead to the loss of kidney
function and will require kidney dialysis or lead to death
because of uremia.
What is dialysis? In fact, it should be
called 'blood washing'; it is filtering all of the body's blood into
a machine and then returning the blood
back to the body.
The whole process takes 4 hours; and it
is necessary to have dialysis
once every 3 days for the rest of your
life.
Below: A dialysis center
Below: A large dialysis center
A small hole is required in the arm to
insert the sub-dialysis catheter.
Why is it much more serious in babies?
A baby's kidneys are so very small and
they drink a lot of milk powder.
Below: A baby undergoing dialysis.
China currenty has 13,000 infants
hospitalized
It does not matter how much Melamine a
human being ingested (ate) (took).
The important point is: 'MELAMINE CANNOT
BE EATEN!'
5.What foods are to be avoided?
Foods from China that contain dairy
products should be avoided.
Remember: Foods with cream or milk should
be avoided.
6.Which companies are affected?
Hereunder are the companies affected with
Melamine.
---------------------------------------------------------
Finally, share this information with
friends so they will understand the risk of milk poisoning.
The whole world is very afraid of "Made
In China" 'black-hearted' goods.
Do you know how to differentiate which
products are made in the USA , or in the Philippines , in Taiwan , or
in China ?
Here's How:
The first 3 digits of the barcode identify
the country code wherein the product was made.
For Example: ALL barcodes that start with
690, 691, 692, etc., . . up to and including 695 are all MADE IN CHINA
.
Barcodes starting with 471 are printed on
products Made in Taiwan .
You have a right to know. But the
government and related departments never inform or educate the public.
Therefore we must educate ourselves,
be vigilant, and RESCUE ourselves.
Today, Chinese businessmen know that
consumers will not select products
'Made in China '. So, they make every
effort not to show or state the country
of origin on their products. However, you
can now refer to the barcode.
DO remember if the first 3 digits are one
of those between 690 and 695 inclusive then it is a product Made in
China .
OTHER BARCODES:
00 ~ 13 USA & CANADA
30 ~ 37 FRANCE
40 ~ 44 GERMANY
49 ~ JAPAN
50 ~ UK
57 ~ Denmark
64 ~ Finland
76 ~ Switzerland and Liechtenstein
628 ~ Saudi-Arabia
629 ~ United Arab Emirates
740 ~ 745 - Central America
All 480 Codes are Made in the
Philippines.
Please inform your family and friends.
Be aware! And help others to be aware!
Message 9
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Tell ya what Gary...
After you pull the part - If you want to send it to me I'll do an acid test
to see if it was a defect in material or abrasion.
Barry
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Your guess is as good as mine. I looked at all related parts. No abnormal
> wear.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@yahoo.com>
> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wed, November 10, 2010 5:35:15 AM
> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
>
> >>>OK, how would this happen?<<<
>
> Properly installed it could not have happened. Right?
>
> Sure looks like that ground away pin rode against a flat surface that was
> turning while it was still. How does it fit against the top of the brake
> rotor? Is that a match? How it got there and stayed there is quite a
> puzzle, just from memory of how the pieces fit.
>
> Bob Hodo
>
>
> *
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 10
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|
I replaced the part yesterday and threw the old one away. It looked like it had
been there a while. If I were to guess, it looked like someone intensionally
ground it down on a bench grinder.
________________________________
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 2:19:04 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
Tell ya what Gary...
After you pull the part - If you want to send it to me I'll do an acid test to
see if it was a defect in material or abrasion.
Barry
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Your guess is as good as mine. I looked at all related parts. No abnormal
wear.
>
>
________________________________
From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@yahoo.com>
>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 5:35:15 AM
>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
>
>
>>>>OK, how would this happen?<<<
>
>Properly installed it could not have happened. Right?
>
>Sure looks like that ground away pin rode against a flat surface that was
>turning while it was still. How does it fit against the top of the brake
>rotor? Is that a match? How it got there and stayed there is quite a puzzle,
>just from memory of how the pieces fit.
>
>Bob Hodo
>
>
>
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
>tp://forums.matronics.com
>
--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 11
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|
Why not just replace the two pins? The caliper didn't look to bad if it
were bead blasted and cleaned up.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
I replaced the part yesterday and threw the old one away. It looked
like it had been there a while. If I were to guess, it looked like
someone intensionally ground it down on a bench grinder.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 2:19:04 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
Tell ya what Gary...
After you pull the part - If you want to send it to me I'll do an
acid test to see if it was a defect in material or abrasion.
Barry
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Your guess is as good as mine. I looked at all related parts. No
abnormal wear.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@yahoo.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 5:35:15 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
>>>OK, how would this happen?<<<
Properly installed it could not have happened. Right?
Sure looks like that ground away pin rode against a flat
surface that was turning while it was still. How does it fit against
the top of the brake rotor? Is that a match? How it got there and
stayed there is quite a puzzle, just from memory of how the pieces fit.
Bob Hodo
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 12
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you amaze me Cliff. No where in my email did I say I replaced the caliper.
________________________________
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 4:39:43 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
Why not just replace the two pins? The caliper didn't look to bad if it were
bead blasted and cleaned up.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
>From: Gary Vogt
>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:31 PM
>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
>
>
>I replaced the part yesterday and threw the old one away. It looked like it
>had been there a while. If I were to guess, it looked like someone
>intensionally ground it down on a bench grinder.
>
>
________________________________
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 2:19:04 PM
>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
>
>Tell ya what Gary...
> After you pull the part - If you want to send it to me I'll do an acid test
>to see if it was a defect in material or abrasion.
>
>
>Barry
>
>
>On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Your guess is as good as mine. I looked at all related parts. No abnormal
>wear.
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@yahoo.com>
>>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 5:35:15 AM
>>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>OK, how would this happen?<<<
>>
>>Properly installed it could not have happened. Right?
>>
>>Sure looks like that ground away pin rode against a flat surface that
>>was turning while it was still. How does it fit against the top of
>>the brake rotor? Is that a match? How it got there and stayed there
>>is quite a puzzle, just from memory of how the pieces fit.
>>
>>Bob Hodo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
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Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens?
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
Yep. Those castings will only handle so much torque on the fitting.
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens?
>
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