Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:10 AM - Please Support The Lists... (Matt Dralle)
1. 06:45 AM - Re: brakes (flyv35b)
2. 06:54 AM - Re: see the crack? (flyv35b)
3. 07:04 AM - Re: brakes (John Brouillette)
4. 07:36 AM - Re: see the crack? (FLYaDIVE)
5. 10:08 AM - Re: see the crack? (Gary Vogt)
6. 10:10 AM - Re: see the crack? (Gary Vogt)
7. 10:44 AM - Re: see the crack? (flyv35b)
8. 10:51 AM - Re: see the crack? (Linn Walters)
9. 10:57 AM - Re: see the crack? (Dj Merrill)
10. 11:47 AM - Re: see the crack? (Gary Vogt)
11. 11:47 AM - Re: see the crack? (Linn Walters)
12. 11:58 AM - Re: see the crack? (Linn Walters)
13. 12:07 PM - Re: see the crack? (Dj Merrill)
14. 12:07 PM - Re: see the crack? (Garner Rice)
15. 12:21 PM - Re: see the crack? (Gary Vogt)
16. 12:28 PM - Re: see the crack? (Linn Walters)
17. 12:36 PM - Re: see the crack? (Linn Walters)
18. 12:38 PM - Re: see the crack? (Dj Merrill)
19. 12:44 PM - Re: see the crack? (Dj Merrill)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Please Support The Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well!
Please make your Contribution today at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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You're right, you just said you threw the part away. not the caliper. I
guess I just assumed you threw the assembly away. Bad assumption.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
you amaze me Cliff. No where in my email did I say I replaced the
caliper.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 4:39:43 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
Why not just replace the two pins? The caliper didn't look to bad if
it were bead blasted and cleaned up.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
I replaced the part yesterday and threw the old one away. It looked
like it had been there a while. If I were to guess, it looked like
someone intensionally ground it down on a bench grinder.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 2:19:04 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
Tell ya what Gary...
After you pull the part - If you want to send it to me I'll do an
acid test to see if it was a defect in material or abrasion.
Barry
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Your guess is as good as mine. I looked at all related parts. No
abnormal wear.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@yahoo.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 5:35:15 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes
>>>OK, how would this happen?<<<
Properly installed it could not have happened. Right?
Sure looks like that ground away pin rode against a flat
surface that was turning while it was still. How does it fit against
the top of the brake rotor? Is that a match? How it got there and
stayed there is quite a puzzle, just from memory of how the pieces fit.
Bob Hodo
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com>
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com>
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.co
m">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
I guess you will be throwing the caliper away on this one!
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt
To: Teamgrumman List
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:27 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens?
Message 3
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Gary,
the only time I have had the brake assembly get notched was with a wheel
bearing that was failing.
not the same type of aircraft it was on a Turbine Commander 840. Just maybe
a similar thing is happening here
John
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
What about welding the crack?
If you can weld an engine case why not this?
Barry
*YOU ARE NOT *
*WE ARE*
*BECAUSE WE WERE *
*YOU ARE*
*
*
*
*
*
*
* *
*The words to be inserted are VETERANS=92 and FREE*
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
when I installed the fitting, I was thinking, "Something doesn't feel right.
This isn't tightening like it should." It wasn't until after I got everything
installed and was setting up to bleed the brakes that I noticed it.
________________________________
From: Rick Lindstrom <tigerized@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 9:57:52 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
Yep. Those castings will only handle so much torque on the fitting.
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens?
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
I bled the brakes and there is no leak. This plane, the Project X plane, has no
wheel pants yet. I'll keep an eye on it.
________________________________
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 6:35:31 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
I guess you will be throwing the caliper away on this one!
----- Original Message -----
>From: Gary Vogt
>To: Teamgrumman List
>Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:27 PM
>Subject: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
>
>
>Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens?
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
Probably, but would it be worth it? You could easily get $100 of labor
invested with questionable outcome. Totally different cost level than
an engine case. And it may have other issues such as corrosion pitting
at the edge of the piston bore or wear where the brake lining bolts on.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: FLYaDIVE
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
What about welding the crack?
If you can weld an engine case why not this?
Barry
YOU ARE NOT
WE ARE
BECAUSE WE WERE
YOU ARE
The words to be inserted are VETERANS=92 and FREE
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
You probably won't see a leak until you get hard on the brakes a few
times. Maybe heat affects it too. I've seen this fairly often on
homebuilts ..... overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like
they want. They all leak.
Linn
On 11/11/2010 1:07 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
> I bled the brakes and there is no leak. This plane, the Project X
> plane, has no wheel pants yet. I'll keep an eye on it.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thu, November 11, 2010 6:35:31 AM
> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
>
> *I guess you will be throwing the caliper away on this one!*
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Gary Vogt <mailto:teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
> *To:* Teamgrumman List <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:27 PM
> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
>
> Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens?
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
On 11/11/2010 01:48 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
> I've seen this fairly often on
> homebuilts ..... overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like
> they want. They all leak.
Out of curiousity (because I'm about to start on the brake system on my
Sportsman), what is the proper way to tighten the fitting to get it
oriented in the direction you want?
Thanks,
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855
Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER the relevant text
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
This is the first caliper I've ever seen that was cracked. I have 3 more
calipers, but, they are so corroded they are unusable.
________________________________
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 10:48:51 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
You probably won't see a leak until you get hard on the brakes a few times.
Maybe heat affects it too. I've seen this fairly often on homebuilts .....
overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like they want. They all
leak.
Linn
On 11/11/2010 1:07 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
I bled the brakes and there is no leak. This plane, the Project X
plane, has no wheel pants yet. I'll keep an eye on it.
>
>
________________________________
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 6:35:31 AM
>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
>
>
>I guess you will be throwing the caliper away on this one!
>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Gary Vogt
>>To: Teamgrumman List
>>Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:27 PM
>>Subject: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
>>
>>
>>Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens?
>>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
Proper???? I dunno, but I've used two approaches to clocking fittings.
1: I've used teflon paste if it's just a little loose.
2: I've used a tap to take a little more cut. I have ground the bottom
of the tap so it can get further down into the hole.
Linn
On 11/11/2010 1:55 PM, Dj Merrill wrote:
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Dj Merrill<deej@deej.net>
>
> On 11/11/2010 01:48 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>> I've seen this fairly often on
>> homebuilts ..... overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like
>> they want. They all leak.
>
> Out of curiousity (because I'm about to start on the brake system on my
> Sportsman), what is the proper way to tighten the fitting to get it
> oriented in the direction you want?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Dj
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
Probably due to professionals rather than amateurs working on certified
stuff. You won't believe what I see in the homebuilt arena. It's
scary. I've turned down a fair amount of 'rides' because I feared it
may be my last. The "just a little tighter (snap or crush)" and "that's
close enough" syndromes are rampant. I've seen builders put huge
lightening holes in spar webs because it would save weight. May not
save the pilot though.
Linn
On 11/11/2010 2:44 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
> This is the first caliper I've ever seen that was cracked. I have 3
> more calipers, but, they are so corroded they are unusable.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thu, November 11, 2010 10:48:51 AM
> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
>
> You probably won't see a leak until you get hard on the brakes a few
> times. Maybe heat affects it too. I've seen this fairly often on
> homebuilts ..... overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like
> they want. They all leak.
> Linn
>
> On 11/11/2010 1:07 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>> I bled the brakes and there is no leak. This plane, the Project X
>> plane, has no wheel pants yet. I'll keep an eye on it.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Thu, November 11, 2010 6:35:31 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
>>
>> *I guess you will be throwing the caliper away on this one!*
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Gary Vogt <mailto:teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
>> *To:* Teamgrumman List <mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:27 PM
>> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
>>
>> Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens?
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
On 11/11/2010 02:55 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
> Probably due to professionals rather than amateurs working on certified
> stuff.
I have to agree with this statement. I've seen more than one A&P that
scared the crap out of me at the quality of their work. I make it a
point to ALWAYS personally go over any work done by someone else on the
airplane, regardless of their paper credentials. After all, it is my
*ss on the line, not theirs, if the plane has a failure in flight.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855
Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER the relevant text
Message 14
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Got stacks of them with cracks. Special price on those. Nuttin a little JB
weld cont fix<G>
From: teamgrumman@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
This is the first caliper I've ever seen that was cracked. I have 3 more c
alipers=2C but=2C they are so corroded they are unusable.
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thu=2C November 11=2C 2010 10:48:51 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
You probably won't see a leak until you get hard on the brakes a few times.
Maybe heat affects it too. I've seen this fairly often on homebuilts ...
.. overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like they want. They a
ll leak.
Linn
On 11/11/2010 1:07 PM=2C Gary Vogt wrote:
I bled the brakes and there is no leak. This plane=2C the Project X plane
=2C has no wheel pants yet. I'll keep an eye on it.
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
Sent: Thu=2C November 11=2C 2010 6:35:31 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
I guess you will be throwing the caliper away on this one!
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt
Sent: Wednesday=2C November 10=2C 2010 8:27 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
Now=2C doesn't that just piss you off when that happens?
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
I don't know if there is a 'proper' way. Any lube, ( e.g., teflon tape,
anti-seize, etc ) you put on the threads makes over tightening the fitting very
easy. On-the-other-hand, not using a lube invites the possibility of galling
the fitting.
I use the teflon tape; no more than two wrap layers. Then, I tighten until it's
snug then add enough to get my position correct. My gauge for tightness is just
enough so that it requires a wrench to loosen.
________________________________
From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 10:55:33 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
On 11/11/2010 01:48 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
> I've seen this fairly often on
> homebuilts ..... overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like
> they want. They all leak.
Out of curiousity (because I'm about to start on the brake system on my
Sportsman), what is the proper way to tighten the fitting to get it
oriented in the direction you want?
Thanks,
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855
Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER the relevant text
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
The first annual on my Grumman after I bought it caused me to start
doing 'owner assisted annuals'. The A&P removed the B nut on the
electric pump ..... I guess to clean the screen ..... and the nut went
on finger tight. Having said that, I find most A&Ps to do professional
and quality work, although some lack the craftmanship they should have.
Doing all the wrenching myself leaves only me to blame when I don't hit
the level of craftmanship I strive for. Back in '74 when I had my
annual problem ..... I was pretty much ignorant about wrenching
airplanes, but I had good mentors. Also, building airplanes always
leaves you open to questions and criticism alike, but the knowledge I've
gained over the years has helped keep my butt in one piece.
Linn
On 11/11/2010 3:05 PM, Dj Merrill wrote:
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Dj Merrill<deej@deej.net>
>
> On 11/11/2010 02:55 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>> Probably due to professionals rather than amateurs working on certified
>> stuff.
> I have to agree with this statement. I've seen more than one A&P that
> scared the crap out of me at the quality of their work. I make it a
> point to ALWAYS personally go over any work done by someone else on the
> airplane, regardless of their paper credentials. After all, it is my
> *ss on the line, not theirs, if the plane has a failure in flight.
>
> -Dj
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
I try and stay away from Teflon tape due to the chance of some 'strings'
getting into the system. It's easy to keep the tape off the first
couple of threads on initial insertion, but when you R&R a fitting, some
of the tape gets left down inside the hole and gets pushed on through
when you put the fitting back in. I've used tweezers to try and clean
up the mess tape leaves behind. The Teflon paste will typically
'dissolve' in fluids so it doesn't pose near the possibility of getting
where it causes problems.
Linn
On 11/11/2010 3:15 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
> I don't know if there is a 'proper' way. Any lube, ( e.g., teflon
> tape, anti-seize, etc ) you put on the threads makes over tightening
> the fitting very easy. On-the-other-hand, not using a lube invites
> the possibility of galling the fitting.
>
> I use the teflon tape; no more than two wrap layers. Then, I tighten
> until it's snug then add enough to get my position correct. My gauge
> for tightness is just enough so that it requires a wrench to loosen.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thu, November 11, 2010 10:55:33 AM
> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack?
>
> <mailto:deej@deej.net>>
>
> On 11/11/2010 01:48 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
> > I've seen this fairly often on
> > homebuilts ..... overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like
> > they want. They all leak.
>
>
> Out of curiousity (because I'm about to start on the brake system
> on my
> Sportsman), what is the proper way to tighten the fitting to get it
> oriented in the direction you want?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Dj
>
> --
> Dj Merrill - N1JOV
> Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
>
> Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855
> Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER
>
> *
>
> *
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
On 11/11/2010 03:15 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>
> I use the teflon tape; no more than two wrap layers. Then, I tighten
> until it's snug then add enough to get my position correct. My gauge
> for tightness is just enough so that it requires a wrench to loosen.
Sounds reasonable, thanks! That is essentially what I've done so far
on the master cylinder fittings. No cracks so far! *grin*
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855
Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER the relevant text
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: see the crack? |
On 11/11/2010 03:30 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
> I try and stay away from Teflon tape due to the chance of some 'strings'
> getting into the system.
I've been using a product called "Fuel Lube" (also called EZ Turn)
instead of Teflon tape:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ezturnlube.php
-Dj
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Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
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